Oh! Can I talk smack about some Limey fruit to burnish my objective credentials?
Oops...[8|]
warspite1
Yes - apparently that is permitted, but you can’t pass judgement on a fellow Yank because all Yanks love all Yanks and so you wouldn’t be objective.... or some old cobblers.
Well, truth be told, I love a good yank every now and again. Wait...
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ne nothi tere te deorsum (don't let the bastards grind you down)
If duct tape doesn't fix it then you are not using enough duct tape.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein.
How many pigs/hogs in the UK are named Napoleon? If they did not think that he was great, there would be a large number. How many pigs/hogs in France are named Napoleon? probably very few. So on that basis, I would state the the British and the French agree that pigs/hogs should not be named Napoleon to insult his memory.
I think that the British problem with Napoleon at that time was the fear of destroying the status quo in the UK.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).” ; Julia Child
But I have to admit that I am a bit perplexed on why Napoleon was brought up in a talk about Russian reliving the battle of Kursk.
Probably because of these SdKfz 184 "Napoleon" tank destroyers first deplyed there? Or were they nick-named "Wilhelm"? I forget. Some imperial dude, anyway.
But warspite1, if someone named a pig/hog after you, would you consider it a compliment or an insult? I think that if someone named such a creature after me (aside from it being descriptive to a certain extent) I would consider that an insult. After all, how many police officers like to be referred to as a PIG, even though that is an acronym for Policeman In Government. PIGS can be short for Police In Government System, HOG can be short for Harleys Owner Group. So a motorcycle cop can be PIG on a HOG. But I won't go further on the issue of pork right now.
But I digress, that is a picture of a good German AFV after the battle of Kursk.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).” ; Julia Child
Pigs are extremely intelligent, resilient and fearless. If threatened they will attack anything regardless of size. And they taste good too. I can't think of many negative things about them. If you want to name a pig after me I would not be insulted. [;)]
ne nothi tere te deorsum (don't let the bastards grind you down)
If duct tape doesn't fix it then you are not using enough duct tape.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein.
1) Their body wastes reek!
2) Wild pigs will hunt and eat rats, giving them diseases which can be passed to tame pigs and humans.
3) Pigs will eat carrion which can give diseases which can be passed to us.
But they do taste delicious, especially their belly meat when smoked and then fried. BACON!
How do you call a girl from Iowa? SOOOOIIIIEEEEE!
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).” ; Julia Child
Beta Tester for: War in the East 1 & 2, WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific, Valor & Victory, Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm, Computer War In Europe 2 SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator Tester for WDS games
Ah yes, the ancient and glorious One Hundred Acre Wood Battles, Piglets, vs Guatemalan Banana chucker's, lead by a thousand rabbits disguised as Nappy with his Blue and Red, while the no sweat pigs wore grey and red, and the Russians still claim they defeated the famed Tigger too!
Beta Tester for: War in the East 1 & 2, WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific, Valor & Victory, Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm, Computer War In Europe 2 SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator Tester for WDS games
A little girl, carrying her favorite stuffed toy, went up to her father while he was sitting on his favorite chair in the living room and asked "Daddy, where does Pooh come from?"
The very wise man quickly said "Go ask your Mother."
So the little girl went into the kitchen where her mother was working and asked "Mommy, where does Pooh come from?"
The poor mother sat the little girl on a chair and then started to describe the digestive process, from eating to elimination. As the mother went on, the little girls eyes got bigger [X(] and [X(] bigger. When her mother was finished, she asked the little girl "Now, do you have any more questions?"
The little girl, in a squeeky, high pitched little voice asked "What about Tigger?"
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).” ; Julia Child
Ah yes, the ancient and glorious One Hundred Acre Wood Battles, Piglets, vs Guatemalan Banana chucker's, lead by a thousand rabbits disguised as Nappy with his Blue and Red, while the no sweat pigs wore grey and red, and the Russians still claim they defeated the famed Tigger too!
warspite1
But in WWII who was better, Piglet or Napoleon?
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Piglet! He helped raise the morale a lot better than Napoleon. After all, the UK and the Commonwealth kept fighting whereas most of the French forces adopted a new salute and a new flag. The new French salute was to raise both arms up with palms forward. The new French flag was rectangular, in the upper left was a white cross on a white field, while the rest of the flag had white stripes alternating with white stripes.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).” ; Julia Child
The Russian Government os obviously playing politics here. Eminent historians such as Nipe, Glantz, Zamulin, Schrank have examined both the Soviet archives and the captured archives of II SS Panzer Corps (held in Washington DC) and have exposed Rotmistrov's account that, prior to 1990 Western historians had to rely upon were in fact no more than a fabrication. The Soviets claimed that II SS Panzer Corps had "hundreds of Panther and Tiger tanks" nut that the SS were decisively defeated losing he numbers of tanks abandoned on the field. As we now know however it was 5th Gaurds Tank Army that lost several hundred tanks. And some very senior German commanders actually came down to the battlefield next day (which tells us that it was the Germans who were in very secure possession of the battle field, not the Soviets)That fact alone tells us that Prokorovka was a clear and decisive tactical success for the Germans. Furthermore, from Nipe's analysis in particular we know that that II SS Panzer Corps only had a few operational Tigers on the day. They never had any Panthers at all, the rest of the German tanks that fought in the battle being Panzer III or IV models.
However, as Schrank shows the 5th Guard Tank Army did achieve something of great significance despite their near immolation. They gained a vital day for the Soviet strategic reserves to come up and move into position. By the end of the day II SS Panzer Corps was temporarily exhausted physically and emotionally. For a couple of days they were incapable of mounting further major offensive operations. Even then Operation Roland, commencing 14 July was more of a local attack that achieved little or nothing of significance and by 17 July 2nd SS Panzer Corps was being withdrawn from the sector to begin operations against a Red Army offensive further south on the River Mius, a battle described in detail by George Nipe in his book Decision on the Mius.
The Russians are just going to have to accept that the story put about by the Soviet Union during the Cold War is tripe. Nobody can put that particular cat back in the bag. They are going to have to accept that II SS Pamzer Corps won a decisive tactical victory. However, by this time Operation Citadel overall had failed, Even if II SS Panzer Corps had been in position to continue on 13 July they would have been placing II SS Panzer Corps in a highly vulnerable position to a further counter offensive by the Soviet strategic reserves in position to counter attack the flanks and rear of the salient. A situation that might have resulted in a German disaster a few days later had major offensive operations continued. Either way, by exhausting and effectively stopping II SS Panzer Corps the Red Army had gained a strategic although pyrrhic victory at the operational level. That of course set the stage for the 4th Battle of Kharkov. The Russian Government should be content with that and start placing greater emphasis on 4th Kharkov which really was a decisive but hard fought Red Army victory.
The fact that the Russian Government is clinging to the old story clearly demonstrates that they are playing politics and are not prepared to admit that the Soviet Union lied for decades about what really happened and were eventually caught out in that lie
; Julia Child
