Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game continued)
Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
RE: A nicer milestone...
How are your carriers doing, how long before they can support the invasion in Centpac?
Surface combat TF fanboy
- Tom Hunter
- Posts: 2194
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:57 am
RE: A nicer milestone...
ADavidB:
In Franks Defense the supply number was posted by wobbly when Bombay fell. I don't think PzB has posted about his supply situation in Bombay and in general he tends to write about troop and naval deployments more than logistics.
I belive Frank is theorizing about PzBs options not passing on his strategy. I do read both AARs so I am not going to write any more about this.
But after India falls you better get a big army to the US East Coast.
Damn that just slipped out, where is the edit button....
If you are reading PzB's AAR, you really shouldn't be passing information to me such as the amount of supply in Bombay. I appreciate the thought, but it ruins a bit of the fun of writing the AARs for both of us.
In Franks Defense the supply number was posted by wobbly when Bombay fell. I don't think PzB has posted about his supply situation in Bombay and in general he tends to write about troop and naval deployments more than logistics.
I belive Frank is theorizing about PzBs options not passing on his strategy. I do read both AARs so I am not going to write any more about this.
But after India falls you better get a big army to the US East Coast.
Damn that just slipped out, where is the edit button....
RE: A nicer milestone...
ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter
...
But after India falls you better get a big army to the US East Coast.
Damn that just slipped out, where is the edit button....
Mwahaha
Seriously though, I think PZB will dig in when/if he finishes in India and Java and try to weather the storm.
RE: A nicer milestone...
ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter
ADavidB:If you are reading PzB's AAR, you really shouldn't be passing information to me such as the amount of supply in Bombay. I appreciate the thought, but it ruins a bit of the fun of writing the AARs for both of us.
In Franks Defense the supply number was posted by wobbly when Bombay fell. I don't think PzB has posted about his supply situation in Bombay and in general he tends to write about troop and naval deployments more than logistics.
I belive Frank is theorizing about PzBs options not passing on his strategy. I do read both AARs so I am not going to write any more about this.
But after India falls you better get a big army to the US East Coast.
Damn that just slipped out, where is the edit button....
Thanks Tom!
I would post the link to the posting of Wobbly, but I am to plain stupid to get the right url. It will always link to the forum section.[&:]
I just thought about what happened yet and how PzB played this game (and he played it very well!). He isn´t taking risks. He is a friend of massive support while doing invasions.
If he let his transports go north, he will have aircover there. Aircover means carriers. Carriers means trouble. He would have BBs there, too.
I´d think he´ll do the following:
put troops on transport, sail near Karachi (outside airrange), close your airfield by bombardment, use the defeat of your airforce on ground to use his planes against your forces. (Bombardments by ships will do the rest).
That is the reason why he was going after Malir, too. If he catches the base, you will have no more place to hide your planes from his BBs.
If you like what I said love me,if you dislike what I say ignore me!
"Extra Bavaria non est vita! Et sic est vita non est ita!"
"Extra Bavaria non est vita! Et sic est vita non est ita!"
RE: A nicer milestone...
The main thing I say at this stage is look at that date ticking on...
Spitfires crap on offence but rested trying to defend 2 bases I wouldnt want to be a IJA player trying to break that cap with Oscars and sub 80 exp Zeroes.
4 weeks to Lightnings I hope you are positioning gps to upgrade ready to take advantage and have turned auto upgrade off for all P39 Gps so the right one upgrades !!!.
Andy
Spitfires crap on offence but rested trying to defend 2 bases I wouldnt want to be a IJA player trying to break that cap with Oscars and sub 80 exp Zeroes.
4 weeks to Lightnings I hope you are positioning gps to upgrade ready to take advantage and have turned auto upgrade off for all P39 Gps so the right one upgrades !!!.
Andy
RE: A nicer milestone...
ORIGINAL: Frank
I only read Wobblies and your AARs. I think Wobbly stated PzB caught a very large amount of supplies in Bombay.
Sorry about that. Thanks again for your comments.
Dave
RE: A nicer milestone...
ORIGINAL: String
How are your carriers doing, how long before they can support the invasion in Centpac?
My carriers are doing fine. I have them, along with surface forces, right where I need them for all of my operations. I have been supporting the Gilbert/Marshall operations with carriers but I haven't committed them yet - I'm waiting for "juicy" targets, not barges...[;)]
Thanks -
Dave
RE: A nicer milestone...
ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter
ADavidB:If you are reading PzB's AAR, you really shouldn't be passing information to me such as the amount of supply in Bombay. I appreciate the thought, but it ruins a bit of the fun of writing the AARs for both of us.
In Franks Defense the supply number was posted by wobbly when Bombay fell. I don't think PzB has posted about his supply situation in Bombay and in general he tends to write about troop and naval deployments more than logistics.
I belive Frank is theorizing about PzBs options not passing on his strategy. I do read both AARs so I am not going to write any more about this.
But after India falls you better get a big army to the US East Coast.
Damn that just slipped out, where is the edit button....
I've apologized to Frank. Hopefully I've used up some of that excess supply in Bombay with my attacks.
BTW - it wouldn't surprise me at all of PzB's armies moved to the edge of the map in India and showed up next turn in the "United States" base. They seem to be able to go wherever they want...[&:]
Cheers -
Dave
RE: A nicer milestone...
ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
The main thing I say at this stage is look at that date ticking on...
Spitfires crap on offence but rested trying to defend 2 bases I wouldnt want to be a IJA player trying to break that cap with Oscars and sub 80 exp Zeroes.
4 weeks to Lightnings I hope you are positioning gps to upgrade ready to take advantage and have turned auto upgrade off for all P39 Gps so the right one upgrades !!!.
Andy
Yeah, the last thing I want is some West Coast units getting P-38s first...[:(]
Thanks for the comments -
Dave
Tough times...
August 23 was a disappointing turn. Not only my planes didn't fly from Malir and Karachi again, but the Chindits retreated after a 2:1 battle. I just don't understand the combat system - I've had plenty of much weaker units withstand much greater odds for several turns. Oh well, obviously there is little point planning on defending my extended perimeter.
It now looks as if PzB will have little trouble rolling over my forces in north-western India. I'm almost tempted to pull everyone out and set them off on a "Diaspora" to Tibet; if for no other reason than to have the replacements that will come in to Karachi over the next few weeks go somewhere else. But replacements will likely divert to Colombo, which is not an improvement. If I could direct where the replacements will go, I would abandon Karachi, but I guess I'll just stick it out.
Man, the lesson that keeps on coming back to me is that to stop the Japanese you have to stop their invasions, because you won't stop their ground troops unless you can get them bogged down in jungle. I'm certainly happy that I followed my instincts and have been working hard to shore up my perimeter in the Pacific. I probably won't have the time, however, to be able to build a sturdy link to Java. The good thing there is that I've been able to "sneak" forces out of Java that I want elsewhere.
The whole situation in India also confirms PzB's approach to be patient and let his ground troops do the fighting. He hasn't needed to commit the KB and has thus avoided unnecessary losses and simultaneously allowed for his naval forces to rest and build strength. That will make it even harder to counter his eventual return in force to the Pacific.
You can tell that PzB is feeling more comfortable with the situation. Not only is he ignoring my weak attacks in Java, he has finally brought some LBA to the Central Pacific:
Day Air attack on TF, near Nauru Island at 79, 91
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 13
No Japanese losses
Allied Ships
AK Kaiping, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Rail
So I won't have a "free ride" out there any more. Oh well, the times were good while they lasted.
One surprise I hope to give to PzB this coming turn will be a new air attack target. I just found out in my game against ZonkerH that my B-17s in Darwin will reach Kendari. I'm hoping that I catch some of PzB's planes on the ground too.
Dave Baranyi
It now looks as if PzB will have little trouble rolling over my forces in north-western India. I'm almost tempted to pull everyone out and set them off on a "Diaspora" to Tibet; if for no other reason than to have the replacements that will come in to Karachi over the next few weeks go somewhere else. But replacements will likely divert to Colombo, which is not an improvement. If I could direct where the replacements will go, I would abandon Karachi, but I guess I'll just stick it out.
Man, the lesson that keeps on coming back to me is that to stop the Japanese you have to stop their invasions, because you won't stop their ground troops unless you can get them bogged down in jungle. I'm certainly happy that I followed my instincts and have been working hard to shore up my perimeter in the Pacific. I probably won't have the time, however, to be able to build a sturdy link to Java. The good thing there is that I've been able to "sneak" forces out of Java that I want elsewhere.
The whole situation in India also confirms PzB's approach to be patient and let his ground troops do the fighting. He hasn't needed to commit the KB and has thus avoided unnecessary losses and simultaneously allowed for his naval forces to rest and build strength. That will make it even harder to counter his eventual return in force to the Pacific.
You can tell that PzB is feeling more comfortable with the situation. Not only is he ignoring my weak attacks in Java, he has finally brought some LBA to the Central Pacific:
Day Air attack on TF, near Nauru Island at 79, 91
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 13
No Japanese losses
Allied Ships
AK Kaiping, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Rail
So I won't have a "free ride" out there any more. Oh well, the times were good while they lasted.
One surprise I hope to give to PzB this coming turn will be a new air attack target. I just found out in my game against ZonkerH that my B-17s in Darwin will reach Kendari. I'm hoping that I catch some of PzB's planes on the ground too.
Dave Baranyi
RE: Tough times...
Well, as of August 24th it looks as if my planes at Malir have no intention of going off on ground attacks no matter what the conditions. Oh well, I'll send them off on an airbase raid. My planes at Karachi hit Bombay, but that doesn't really matter much at this point:
Day Air attack on Bombay, at 20, 10
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 48
Hudson I x 15
B-24D Liberator x 40
Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 1 damaged
Japanese ground losses:
229 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 84
Port hits 5
Port supply hits 1
For some reason PzB didn't moved his troops into Malir proper. He's probably waiting for more troops.
It looks as if my search planes under General Magoo in Colombo really blew it big time. So much for a transport TF going to the west - look what ended up to the west of Colombo:
Day Air attack on TF at 3, 22
Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 3
A6M2 Zero x 77
D3A Val x 65
B5N Kate x 83
No Japanese losses
Allied Ships
TK Empire Marvell, Bomb hits 13, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Oryx, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
TK Empire Unity, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Semiramis, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Pleiodon, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
TK Empire Collins, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
[X(] So I now know where part of the KB is sitting. This was a TF of damaged ships that I sent off from Karachi quite a while ago. I wanted the repairs in Karachi to be focussed on the damaged combat ships that I have there. These damaged transports then also acted as "canaries in a coal mine". I had a few other transports going south too - I'm sending them back to Karachi and sending the troops on the long march to Tibet.
Not all the news was disappointing. As I had hoped, I did catch some planes on the ground in Kendari:
Day Air attack on Kendari, at 33, 71
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 50
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
L2D2 Tabby: 12 destroyed, 5 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 3 destroyed, 17 damaged
Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 21
I presume that those Tabbys were what transported a few Japanese troops into Lautem:
Ground combat at Lautem
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 546 troops, 9 guns, 0 vehicles
Defending force 103 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles
Allied assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 0)
Allied forces CAPTURE Lautem base !!!
Japanese ground losses:
19 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
I find this almost impossible to believe - some of my troops actually defeated some Japanese troops! (My troops were Auzzies - goes to show you that I do have a few good troops around.)
The only other relatively positive news that I received was that some of PzB's Bettys in Kwajalein went after a "juicy" target in Tarawa, with unhappy results for the bombers:
Day Air attack on TF, near Tarawa at 85, 91
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 12
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 17 destroyed, 4 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 damaged
Allied Ships
BB North Carolina
This was tempered by the second "kick-at-the-can" by the Bettys which did hit a transport:
Day Air attack on TF, near Tarawa at 85, 91
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16
No Japanese losses
No Allied losses
Allied Ships
AK Steel Voyager, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
Yes, it looks like tough times ahead for a while.
Dave Baranyi
Day Air attack on Bombay, at 20, 10
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 48
Hudson I x 15
B-24D Liberator x 40
Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 1 damaged
Japanese ground losses:
229 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 84
Port hits 5
Port supply hits 1
For some reason PzB didn't moved his troops into Malir proper. He's probably waiting for more troops.
It looks as if my search planes under General Magoo in Colombo really blew it big time. So much for a transport TF going to the west - look what ended up to the west of Colombo:
Day Air attack on TF at 3, 22
Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 3
A6M2 Zero x 77
D3A Val x 65
B5N Kate x 83
No Japanese losses
Allied Ships
TK Empire Marvell, Bomb hits 13, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Oryx, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
TK Empire Unity, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Semiramis, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Pleiodon, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
TK Empire Collins, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
[X(] So I now know where part of the KB is sitting. This was a TF of damaged ships that I sent off from Karachi quite a while ago. I wanted the repairs in Karachi to be focussed on the damaged combat ships that I have there. These damaged transports then also acted as "canaries in a coal mine". I had a few other transports going south too - I'm sending them back to Karachi and sending the troops on the long march to Tibet.
Not all the news was disappointing. As I had hoped, I did catch some planes on the ground in Kendari:
Day Air attack on Kendari, at 33, 71
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 50
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
L2D2 Tabby: 12 destroyed, 5 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 3 destroyed, 17 damaged
Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 21
I presume that those Tabbys were what transported a few Japanese troops into Lautem:
Ground combat at Lautem
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 546 troops, 9 guns, 0 vehicles
Defending force 103 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles
Allied assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 0)
Allied forces CAPTURE Lautem base !!!
Japanese ground losses:
19 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
I find this almost impossible to believe - some of my troops actually defeated some Japanese troops! (My troops were Auzzies - goes to show you that I do have a few good troops around.)
The only other relatively positive news that I received was that some of PzB's Bettys in Kwajalein went after a "juicy" target in Tarawa, with unhappy results for the bombers:
Day Air attack on TF, near Tarawa at 85, 91
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 12
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 17 destroyed, 4 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 damaged
Allied Ships
BB North Carolina
This was tempered by the second "kick-at-the-can" by the Bettys which did hit a transport:
Day Air attack on TF, near Tarawa at 85, 91
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16
No Japanese losses
No Allied losses
Allied Ships
AK Steel Voyager, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
Yes, it looks like tough times ahead for a while.
Dave Baranyi
RE: A nicer milestone...
I´d think he´ll do the following:
put troops on transport, sail near Karachi (outside airrange), close your airfield by bombardment, use the defeat of your airforce on ground to use his planes against your forces. (Bombardments by ships will do the rest).
That is the reason why he was going after Malir, too. If he catches the base, you will have no more place to hide your planes from his BBs.
In order to bombard Karachi PzB has to get past 4 surface combat TFs full of Brit cruisers, DDs and even a Brit BB. This means that he will take damage to his surface force. If he sends in the KB before the bombardment he has to face several hundred rested and experienced fighters and fighter bombers, along with several hundred bombers.
My "best case" scenario is that he does try to force his way in. My worst case scenario is that he just uses his army, then uses the KB to pick off the survivors as they sit out at sea. We'll see what he does.
Thanks for the comments -
Dave
RE: A nicer milestone...
ORIGINAL: ADavidB
I´d think he´ll do the following:
put troops on transport, sail near Karachi (outside airrange), close your airfield by bombardment, use the defeat of your airforce on ground to use his planes against your forces. (Bombardments by ships will do the rest).
That is the reason why he was going after Malir, too. If he catches the base, you will have no more place to hide your planes from his BBs.
In order to bombard Karachi PzB has to get past 4 surface combat TFs full of Brit cruisers, DDs and even a Brit BB. This means that he will take damage to his surface force. If he sends in the KB before the bombardment he has to face several hundred rested and experienced fighters and fighter bombers, along with several hundred bombers.
My "best case" scenario is that he does try to force his way in. My worst case scenario is that he just uses his army, then uses the KB to pick off the survivors as they sit out at sea. We'll see what he does.
Thanks for the comments -
Dave
However with his combined fleet his sure to defeat your cruisers and destroyers easily.. Atleast i think so.. I do recall quite a few jap BB's being damaged. What kind of ships do you have and how did you divide them into your taskforces.. ? If you have any minesweepers or PG's I'd suggest making a TF out of them too.. might just slow the japs down a bit and make them expend their ammo on their way in. Also, if you have PT's in the pool and american AK's in Karachi then load them up with supplies and create some.
Surface combat TF fanboy
- Tom Hunter
- Posts: 2194
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:57 am
RE: A nicer milestone...
String: "However with his combined fleet his sure to defeat your cruisers and destroyers easily.. Atleast i think so.. I"
I beg to differ number of ships, quality of crews and leaders and luck all make a big difference in surface combat. It is possible that PzB does not even know there is a British BB in Karachi. British torpedos actaully explode, the night fighting advantage the Japanese have over the USA does not exists against the Brits, these are all reasons why ADavidB might see some good results.
Wobbly was unable to force surface actions with the RN, for the most part they were sunk by aircraft. So PzB lacks experience fighting them. I agree that PzB has the advantage but I am not sure he will win easily, its very possible he will get a bloody nose on his first attack and then come back with superior force.
I beg to differ number of ships, quality of crews and leaders and luck all make a big difference in surface combat. It is possible that PzB does not even know there is a British BB in Karachi. British torpedos actaully explode, the night fighting advantage the Japanese have over the USA does not exists against the Brits, these are all reasons why ADavidB might see some good results.
Wobbly was unable to force surface actions with the RN, for the most part they were sunk by aircraft. So PzB lacks experience fighting them. I agree that PzB has the advantage but I am not sure he will win easily, its very possible he will get a bloody nose on his first attack and then come back with superior force.
RE: A nicer milestone...
However with his combined fleet his sure to defeat your cruisers and destroyers easily.. Atleast i think so..
Remember, the day after I took over I wiped out an incoming Japanese fleet with only minor losses and damage to my own fleets.
I've always realized that a determined multi-fleet attack by PzB would eventually overwhelm my forces. Combine with that a simultaneous attack by the KB and he could probably close my air fields at Karachi too. But while I still have Malir it is a very risky move for him and potentially very costly. I have a hundred tac bombers in Malir along with my long-range fighters. They can reach out to hit surface ships waiting to go in to attack - particularly if there are BBs in the mix. The can also hit the ships that survive an attack.
At the same time I have 150 fighters and another 100 bombers in Karachi. The long-range bombers are in Karachi and I've used them to keep Bombay's air fields closed. This prevents PzB from using land-based fighters to provide LR CAP over incoming surface fleets. Sure, he could use the KB for that, but the LR CAP still has to fight off up to 300 fighters and 200 bombers. Unless PzB got really lucky with the weather that would mean some pretty heavy losses for him.
Sure, as we've seen recently, my bases can get shut down because of weather, and sometimes my planes just won't fly, but PzB hasn't been willing to risk his main naval forces to "chance". And so far he hasn't had to because his ground forces have shown the ability to fight their way through all of my defenses. I have no reason to believe that they can't do that again. That's why I call an all-out naval attack by PzB my "best case" scenario, because it is the situation in which I have the greatest chance of causing the most damage to PzB's navy. If I can cripple his navy I then don't care about his land forces in India because he won't be able to get them out of there - I'll sink them on the way. PzB's current approach is the most dangerous to me because he will eventually gain all of his objectives on land while maintaining his naval forces.
Thanks again for your comments -
Dave Baranyi
RE: A nicer milestone...
Ok, I understand your point. Still i would be interested in the composition of those TF's.. maybe you could take a screenshot of each of them? In reality, when i started to think about it I realized that i had no idea why i thought that the brits were inferior to japanese in surface combat. Many british ships have equal or even better night experience ratings. Also you are in a good position to use ships even with high system damage. Sys only affects speed and if all weaponry is intact then the ship will fight as well with 99 sys as it will with 0 sys.
Btw, he doesn't have to LRCAP his surface TF's with the KB. He can put the KB into a position where he knows that the bombardment TF will retreat to. That way the TF will be under cap the morning after. That ofcourse doesn't count for cripples. If you really have 200 bombers that can be launched at the KB with an escort of 150 fighters (assuming 50% out of the 300) then you could even inflict some serious damage to KB. Am I right if I assume that the bomber crews are becoming quite experienced?
Btw, he doesn't have to LRCAP his surface TF's with the KB. He can put the KB into a position where he knows that the bombardment TF will retreat to. That way the TF will be under cap the morning after. That ofcourse doesn't count for cripples. If you really have 200 bombers that can be launched at the KB with an escort of 150 fighters (assuming 50% out of the 300) then you could even inflict some serious damage to KB. Am I right if I assume that the bomber crews are becoming quite experienced?
Surface combat TF fanboy
RE: A nicer milestone...
Btw, he doesn't have to LRCAP his surface TF's with the KB. He can put the KB into a position where he knows that the bombardment TF will retreat to. That way the TF will be under cap the morning after. That ofcourse doesn't count for cripples. If you really have 200 bombers that can be launched at the KB with an escort of 150 fighters (assuming 50% out of the 300) then you could even inflict some serious damage to KB. Am I right if I assume that the bomber crews are becoming quite experienced?
This is one of the places where the game mechanics help in my favor. The AI makes incoming TFs stop and wait at the range in which they can hit and run again, unless he sets his TFs to "do not retire". That AI-defined distance is a function of the speed of the slowest ship in the TF. During the first couple of turns he left combat TFs at that distance and my bombers kept on hitting them. If he orders his ships to "do not retire" he takes a chance that his ships are right there where I have 500 planes. When I have "targets of opportunity" I put all of my planes on "naval attack".
And yes, my planes all have good experience now, thanks to a month-plus of bombing targets with little or no opposition. And they are very rested, have unlimited supplies and good replacement pools. The key with any attack by the KB is not that I feel that my planes will do much damage to the ships, but that he will get his air craft depleted. Then he has to go a long ways back for re-supply - he sure can't use Bombay with my planes able to reach it.
But I really don't think that he will bother. He most likely won't have to. The Japanese army is modeled as "Gods" in this game, so I won't be able to hold Karachi forever. Nor can I attempt encirclements or to cut off his supply - the movement rules prevent me from doing so. It's a shame because the game would be much more fun if we could do massive "wars of maneuver" a la the historic Russian front. But maybe, just maybe Mike Woods will do something about this in the future. (Unfortunately, I suspect that 2X3 is waiting for: a) monetary success from W@W, and b) their new Russian front game, and therefore they won't end up addressing the movement issues in WitP.)
BTW - I use small, near-historic sized combat TFs in the game. I find that these are much more effective than massive TFs and there is a much better chance that most if not all of the ships will get into combat. This also allows me more "kicks-at-the-can" as far as fighting a strong opponent goes - if my first TF is defeated the second TF gets a weaker opponent, and so on. The other thing I will do if PzB does come in with combat TFs or the KB is to set up a bunch of transport TFs as "fire ships". Again, this takes advantage of the game mechanics - there is always a chance that the AI will go after "soft" targets in preference to tougher targets, and every attack on a sacrifical TF means less ammo for a fight with my combat TFs.
Thanks again for the comments -
Dave
Bay of Bengal Overkill...
Well, PzB has a lot more of his navy in Indian waters than I thought as of August 25 (and certainly more than is necessary):
Night Time Surface Combat at 3,23
Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
CA Suzuya
CA Aoba
CA Kinugasa
CA Furutaka
CA Kako
CL Natori
CL Oi
DD Kazegumo
DD Shiranuhi
DD Amatsukaze
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Natsugumo
DD Yamakaze
DD Uzuki
Allied Ships
TK Empire Dickens, Shell hits 25, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
So this is the second major surface fleet that PzB has in Indian waters. He still has one in Bombay, just in case I try to send some ships in there. Add to those two surface fleet at least two fleet carriers in a carrier TF and it's now pretty obvious to me why is isn't trying to interfer too seriously with my activities in the Pacific. To a certain extent, and in this light, one could almost consider the Indian situation as a "successful ruse" on my part. [:D] (
)
But PzB hasn't left me to do everything that I want. He landed a force in Lautem via fast transport a lot sooner than I expected him to do. Obviously he doesn't want to allow me to set up any sizable base in Timor. This could turn out to be a "hot spot" for the two of us because I will commit forces there. Stay tuned.
Otherwise, I hammered Ahmadabad by air this turn in order to keep from having to worry about it for a while. Next turn I'll hammer Bombay once again, as well as Lahore. PzB moved his main land force into Malir this turn. Will he do his usual initial bombardments or do an outright attack?
In the meanwhile, my efforts to move out non-combat units into the Indian countryside north of the Indus is working to an extent. When my troops get kicked out of Malir I'll move the defeated troops into the locations currently occupied by my non-combat troops and move the non-combat troops further east. This way I'll make PzB face my best troops in Karachi without any weak forces in the way. And PzB won't be able to out flank me easily. This can only buy me so much time. Once PzB captures Karachi my supply will be cut off and my troops won't move. But my spreading them out over a bunch of hexes it will take PzB a longer time to round them up, encircle them and eliminate them. (Oh gawd it would be so nice to have an intelligent land movement system in this game!)
In other areas, I whacked Kendari again, with nice results:
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 38
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 12 destroyed, 4 damaged
L2D2 Tabby: 6 destroyed, 14 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 6 damaged
Japanese ground losses:
55 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 32
PzB has moved his air units, but I'll whack that base this turn.
In the meanwhile, PzB's LBA is "licking its wounds" in the Marshalls and leaving my ships alone again. The airbase at Makin reached level 1 so I moved a squad of Wildcats in. Slowly but surely the Gilberts are turning into a great staging ground for my forces.
Dave Baranyi
Night Time Surface Combat at 3,23
Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
CA Suzuya
CA Aoba
CA Kinugasa
CA Furutaka
CA Kako
CL Natori
CL Oi
DD Kazegumo
DD Shiranuhi
DD Amatsukaze
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Natsugumo
DD Yamakaze
DD Uzuki
Allied Ships
TK Empire Dickens, Shell hits 25, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
So this is the second major surface fleet that PzB has in Indian waters. He still has one in Bombay, just in case I try to send some ships in there. Add to those two surface fleet at least two fleet carriers in a carrier TF and it's now pretty obvious to me why is isn't trying to interfer too seriously with my activities in the Pacific. To a certain extent, and in this light, one could almost consider the Indian situation as a "successful ruse" on my part. [:D] (
)But PzB hasn't left me to do everything that I want. He landed a force in Lautem via fast transport a lot sooner than I expected him to do. Obviously he doesn't want to allow me to set up any sizable base in Timor. This could turn out to be a "hot spot" for the two of us because I will commit forces there. Stay tuned.
Otherwise, I hammered Ahmadabad by air this turn in order to keep from having to worry about it for a while. Next turn I'll hammer Bombay once again, as well as Lahore. PzB moved his main land force into Malir this turn. Will he do his usual initial bombardments or do an outright attack?
In the meanwhile, my efforts to move out non-combat units into the Indian countryside north of the Indus is working to an extent. When my troops get kicked out of Malir I'll move the defeated troops into the locations currently occupied by my non-combat troops and move the non-combat troops further east. This way I'll make PzB face my best troops in Karachi without any weak forces in the way. And PzB won't be able to out flank me easily. This can only buy me so much time. Once PzB captures Karachi my supply will be cut off and my troops won't move. But my spreading them out over a bunch of hexes it will take PzB a longer time to round them up, encircle them and eliminate them. (Oh gawd it would be so nice to have an intelligent land movement system in this game!)
In other areas, I whacked Kendari again, with nice results:
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 38
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 12 destroyed, 4 damaged
L2D2 Tabby: 6 destroyed, 14 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 6 damaged
Japanese ground losses:
55 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 32
PzB has moved his air units, but I'll whack that base this turn.
In the meanwhile, PzB's LBA is "licking its wounds" in the Marshalls and leaving my ships alone again. The airbase at Makin reached level 1 so I moved a squad of Wildcats in. Slowly but surely the Gilberts are turning into a great staging ground for my forces.
Dave Baranyi
RE: A nicer milestone...
I have been following this AAR from the original wobbly start and am greatly enjoying your efforts to save the day for the allies. It seems that you are fighting poor game mechanics as much as a skilled opponent and I am impressed by your resilience in the face of adversity.
I suspect you are correct re the impossibility of saving the brits in india. This is very disappointing and in my opinion very unrealistic but we have to play the game as it is presented to us. I do not know if it will help but I have a few thoughts re the defense of karachi. On the land side I think Malir is key. It offers you a second airbase and a base safe from naval bombardment. It is behind a river and thus the game gives you a defense bonus. I think you should concentrate you fighting troops here and your engineers who can rebuild forts. Also air-ground missions seem to work best when you can attack units around base hexes - give it a try with your medium and fighter bombers - the extra disruption caused may help a lot.
In the pacific the usa subs are fairly useless with their poor torps and allied sub doctrine but how about a major sub minelaying campaign? It would keep the japs on their toes and you never know may hit something useful every now and again.
As there are some jap carriers in the indian ocean again it is possible to sneak in some single ship taskforces to java ? A few more air maintenance and engineer units would be useful there.
Thanks again for keeping the aar going - this report is one of the first things I check on the web each day so I must be enjoying it !
I suspect you are correct re the impossibility of saving the brits in india. This is very disappointing and in my opinion very unrealistic but we have to play the game as it is presented to us. I do not know if it will help but I have a few thoughts re the defense of karachi. On the land side I think Malir is key. It offers you a second airbase and a base safe from naval bombardment. It is behind a river and thus the game gives you a defense bonus. I think you should concentrate you fighting troops here and your engineers who can rebuild forts. Also air-ground missions seem to work best when you can attack units around base hexes - give it a try with your medium and fighter bombers - the extra disruption caused may help a lot.
In the pacific the usa subs are fairly useless with their poor torps and allied sub doctrine but how about a major sub minelaying campaign? It would keep the japs on their toes and you never know may hit something useful every now and again.
As there are some jap carriers in the indian ocean again it is possible to sneak in some single ship taskforces to java ? A few more air maintenance and engineer units would be useful there.
Thanks again for keeping the aar going - this report is one of the first things I check on the web each day so I must be enjoying it !
RE: A nicer milestone...
"I have been following this AAR from the original wobbly start and am greatly enjoying your efforts to save the day for the allies. It seems that you are fighting poor game mechanics as much as a skilled opponent and I am impressed by your resilience in the face of adversity. "
The game mechanics are only a small factor - the major factor is that PzB is playing very, very smart and knows the game well. He also learns very fast from any mistakes. These are all signs of a very good mind for strategy. PzB may also have a fundamental advantage over me - he is a specialist in computer programming and theory, IIRC, and I've got to think that such a mindset and training has to be a significant asset here. On the otherhand, I'm an old experimental chemist - I tend to learn from my mistakes, but I like to try things out at least once before I "believe" the data...[:D] In this game mistakes can be very costly to learn from.
"I suspect you are correct re the impossibility of saving the brits in india. This is very disappointing and in my opinion very unrealistic but we have to play the game as it is presented to us. I do not know if it will help but I have a few thoughts re the defense of karachi. On the land side I think Malir is key. It offers you a second airbase and a base safe from naval bombardment. It is behind a river and thus the game gives you a defense bonus. I think you should concentrate you fighting troops here and your engineers who can rebuild forts. Also air-ground missions seem to work best when you can attack units around base hexes - give it a try with your medium and fighter bombers - the extra disruption caused may help a lot. "
I thought hard about chosing Malir as my main location for fighting, but I decided that the advantage of the "endless" supplies in Karachi was more important. Also, every day that my forces in Karachi aren't fighting is an extra day for them to increase their morale and their "target" value. I still don't understand how morale for land units is supposed to work. I've had troops in Karachi for 6 weeks that have had all the supplies in the world, lots of support and base forces, their commanding HQ in the same hex, and still morale hasn't increased. If PzB's troops have "high" morale they will defeat my troops regardless of whatever else I do. My suspicion is that morale for land units is similar to morale for air units - it goes up when they are successful. Well, I haven't had any chances for my troops to be "successful".
"In the pacific the usa subs are fairly useless with their poor torps and allied sub doctrine but how about a major sub minelaying campaign? It would keep the japs on their toes and you never know may hit something useful every now and again. "
I don't tend to find offensive mine operations to be more than a nuisance to a good opponent and they take the subs away from what I find more useful - performing picket duty. I get lots of good information on my opponent's ship movements from well-placed subs.
"As there are some jap carriers in the indian ocean again it is possible to sneak in some single ship taskforces to java ? A few more air maintenance and engineer units would be useful there. "
I was trying to do that, but PzB has cut off the "narrows" between Colombo and the map edge. So I sent my forces back to Karachi. If there wasn't a map edge I could send transports to the Antartic and a Japanese player could never afford to send his "short-legged" TFs so far south. But that's how things go. Actually, in reality the Brits would be moving forces to Africa under these conditions.
"Thanks again for keeping the aar going - this report is one of the first things I check on the web each day so I must be enjoying it !"
Thank you for your comments and encouragement. I really appreciate the feedback.
Dave Baranyi
The game mechanics are only a small factor - the major factor is that PzB is playing very, very smart and knows the game well. He also learns very fast from any mistakes. These are all signs of a very good mind for strategy. PzB may also have a fundamental advantage over me - he is a specialist in computer programming and theory, IIRC, and I've got to think that such a mindset and training has to be a significant asset here. On the otherhand, I'm an old experimental chemist - I tend to learn from my mistakes, but I like to try things out at least once before I "believe" the data...[:D] In this game mistakes can be very costly to learn from.
"I suspect you are correct re the impossibility of saving the brits in india. This is very disappointing and in my opinion very unrealistic but we have to play the game as it is presented to us. I do not know if it will help but I have a few thoughts re the defense of karachi. On the land side I think Malir is key. It offers you a second airbase and a base safe from naval bombardment. It is behind a river and thus the game gives you a defense bonus. I think you should concentrate you fighting troops here and your engineers who can rebuild forts. Also air-ground missions seem to work best when you can attack units around base hexes - give it a try with your medium and fighter bombers - the extra disruption caused may help a lot. "
I thought hard about chosing Malir as my main location for fighting, but I decided that the advantage of the "endless" supplies in Karachi was more important. Also, every day that my forces in Karachi aren't fighting is an extra day for them to increase their morale and their "target" value. I still don't understand how morale for land units is supposed to work. I've had troops in Karachi for 6 weeks that have had all the supplies in the world, lots of support and base forces, their commanding HQ in the same hex, and still morale hasn't increased. If PzB's troops have "high" morale they will defeat my troops regardless of whatever else I do. My suspicion is that morale for land units is similar to morale for air units - it goes up when they are successful. Well, I haven't had any chances for my troops to be "successful".
"In the pacific the usa subs are fairly useless with their poor torps and allied sub doctrine but how about a major sub minelaying campaign? It would keep the japs on their toes and you never know may hit something useful every now and again. "
I don't tend to find offensive mine operations to be more than a nuisance to a good opponent and they take the subs away from what I find more useful - performing picket duty. I get lots of good information on my opponent's ship movements from well-placed subs.
"As there are some jap carriers in the indian ocean again it is possible to sneak in some single ship taskforces to java ? A few more air maintenance and engineer units would be useful there. "
I was trying to do that, but PzB has cut off the "narrows" between Colombo and the map edge. So I sent my forces back to Karachi. If there wasn't a map edge I could send transports to the Antartic and a Japanese player could never afford to send his "short-legged" TFs so far south. But that's how things go. Actually, in reality the Brits would be moving forces to Africa under these conditions.
"Thanks again for keeping the aar going - this report is one of the first things I check on the web each day so I must be enjoying it !"
Thank you for your comments and encouragement. I really appreciate the feedback.
Dave Baranyi


