AI for MWiF-Italy

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: dale1066
Conversely would it be possible for the AIO for both Italy and Germany to be one. (maybe this could be an option under certain game configurations?)

For the AIO, priority one should be to win the game for your side, and only then to worry about individual objective totals. At least that's the way we play over-the-board; in games where you have the most overall victory points, but your side loses the game, we still count those as losses.

Coordination early in the game should be very tight for Germany and Italy, but I don't think one AIO should handle both, unless the AIO for all powers on the computer side are handled this way. Late in the war, the US and CW cooperate as closely as the Germans and Italians do early.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here is a fragment of the current strategic plan for the AIO for Italy.

I have gathered this advice from many different posts in this thread and I now want to distill it into a set of 'rules'. In this context what I mean by a rule is: IF .... THEN ...

The question is: "When should Italy DOW the CW and France?"

I have arranged suggestions in order of time: early to late. Presently I have a vague notion of having some probability associated with each of these entries, though that gets tricky since as time progresses in the game some of the suggestions become moot.

So,
1 - Do you have anything to add to this list?
2 - With what 'strength' do you think each one of these suggestions should be taken?
3 - What is the relationship between DOW the CW and France separately (as shown here) versus at the same time?

==========
1.1.2 Major powers on which Italy declares war (CIC)

DOWing early exposes the Italian fleet but is counteracted by allowing Germany to send needed resources. This decision has both risk and reward, not forgetting US entry chits. It’s best to be aggressive in 1940 when the average chit is at it's lowest.

1.1.2.1 CW
∙ Enter the war early, and have Germany spend massively on LL to Italy. This allows for both a strong air force for dominating sea areas, a strong sub force, and by the time of Barbarossa, a significant air force that can deploy east.
∙ If the CW brings Wavell out of the Middle East and puts him in France, DOW the CW and attack Egypt.
∙ Delay DOW CW until Germany is already engaged in France.
∙ DOW in early 1940. Italy does need the LL, but it is also nice to have time to extract the African forces before DOWing. It is best if the Allies DOW Italy, especially in 1939 or early 1940 when their chits are high. Since Italy doesn’t really need her fleet if just defending Italy, be willing to lose quite a chunk of the Italian navy if it delays US entry by a turn or two.
∙ Wait for France to be nearly conquered and then DOW only CW.
∙ After France falls or in Sep/Oct 1940 at the latest.

1.1.2.2 France
∙ If the French have garrisoned the Italian border poorly consider an attack there instead of shipping troops to Libya. Shore bombardment can create decent odds for the attack.
∙ If there is an unguarded French or British fleet in port, consider a DOW to invade on top of that fleet; it might enable Italy to capture a lot of good units.
∙ Enter the war early, and have Germany spend massively on LL to Italy. This allows for both a strong air force for dominating sea areas, a strong sub force, and by the time of Barbarossa, a significant air force that can deploy east.
∙ Delay DOW France until Germany is already engaged in France.
∙ DOW France when Italy can ground strike (using surprise impulse) with 2 long range LNDs. This gives Italy a good chance to disorganize French HQs, LNDs, or FTRs behind the French front lines and lets the Germans concentrate on breaking the line with air power.
∙ DOW in early 1940. Italy does need the LL, but it is also nice to have time to extract the African forces before DOWing.
∙ Wait for France to be nearly gone then DOW only CW. There is no point in fighting the French ships which may well be Vichy next turn. If Free France wants to help the CW in the Mediterranean later, they have to DOW Italy themselves at an US entry cost.
∙ If Germany is doing well in France, don't DOW until France falls and Italy only has to fight the CW.

1.1.2.3 USSR
∙ ?

1.1.2.4 USA
∙ Never

1.1.2.5 China
∙ Never.
===================

[composer99]

For USSR, Italy should DoW USSR if and when it is supporting Barbarossa. Otherwise, there seems little point.
 
If Italy is assisting immediately in Barb with air units and/or HQs, it should DoW right away.
 
Alternatively, if at the time of the German DoW the Italians are not ready, Italy can DoW later and during its "surprise" impulse use its air force to good effect. This will depend on whether the USSR decides to DoW Italy to prevent such an occurence, whether the US is in the war or not, whether the US wants the USSR to DoW or not.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: composer99

For USSR, Italy should DoW USSR if and when it is supporting Barbarossa. Otherwise, there seems little point.

If Italy is assisting immediately in Barb with air units and/or HQs, it should DoW right away.

Alternatively, if at the time of the German DoW the Italians are not ready, Italy can DoW later and during its "surprise" impulse use its air force to good effect. This will depend on whether the USSR decides to DoW Italy to prevent such an occurence, whether the US is in the war or not, whether the US wants the USSR to DoW or not.

Thanks. Though turning your post into a clear set of conditional rules will be a challenge.

[dale1066]

Re ussr DOW on Italy

I seem to remeber reading elsewhere that there are advantages for the USSR to DOW on Italy early on the game. Not something I feel I'd do but is this tactic in scope of the rules? certainly seems a bit "gamey"

[brian brian]

uhh, the Italians would have a pretty tough time gaining any 'surprise' effects on the USSR after the Germans are already at war with the Russians:


15. Surprise
Furthermore, they are not surprised by land or aircraft units attacking from, or flying over, hexes controlled by a major power or minor country at war with them last impulse.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

uhh, the Italians would have a pretty tough time gaining any 'surprise' effects on the USSR after the Germans are already at war with the Russians:


15. Surprise
Furthermore, they are not surprised by land or aircraft units attacking from, or flying over, hexes controlled by a major power or minor country at war with them last impulse.

Good point.

[brian brian]

I think Italy should consider it's DoW decision opportunistically. Is Malta empty? Is the weather good? Is Oran empty? See question #2 again. Italy only gets one surprise impulse and they need to make the most of it. I have never tried it but someday I want to try the sneak invasion of Morocco by risking a division on the far side of Gibraltar for an impulse, which could probably also be an interesting bait to prompt a potential Allied DoW.

Given good Allied play I like the first clear weather impulse in the North Temperate as a target, to help break into France. (And I can't see how any Allied player would put any unit but the French MTN corps in Nice, because of the Shore Bombardment totals Italy can generate). I think the best use of the Italian air is as for-sure doubled ground support factors rather than low odds ground strikes. But then I haven't played a game without LoC Vichy in a long time; with RaW Vichy I'm not as concerned about breaking into the French Riviera and probably wouldn't even try.

I think 'extracting the African units' is overrated. If the CW seems willing to launch a pre-emptive strike on Italy, sending one Italian TRS through Suez is 100% as good as sinking it for the CW via a quick DoW on the next impulse, which are even better odds than a surprise port strike that has to be deployed an impulse in advance.

But I can see little gain in waiting past M/J 40 in any case.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I am presenting the question of on whom and when Italy show DOW again. I have restructured the choices to be easier to pass judgment upon (I think).

See if you can give a letter grade to these suggestions I have received from various forum members. A is excellent, B is very good, C is so-so, D is a bad idea - but maybe could be used rarely, and F means "never do this". If you want to add other conditions to your grade (e.g., B in good weather but F in bad weather), feel free to do so.

My goal is to build a set of rules which are based upon circumstances (here that is dominantly the game turn) and then attached probabilities to each rule. if you can provide me with letter grades, that will help a lot. I am reluctant to make all these decision exclusively on my own evaluations, because of the risk that I would be too predictable.
=============
1.1.2 Major powers on which Italy declares war (CIC)

DOWing early exposes the Italian fleet but is counterbalanced by allowing Germany to send needed resources. This decision has both risk and reward, including its effect on US entry chits. It’s best to be aggressive in 1940 when the average of the US entry chits is low.

1.1.2.1 France
1939, 1940 (Jan/Feb)
∙ If the CW sets up strongly at sea in the Mediterranean, DOW France and CW on Impulse 3 and hit the CW at sea. Unless CW is lucky, it will lose a carrier and some damaged ships.

∙ If the French have garrisoned the Italian border poorly, consider an attack there instead of shipping troops to Libya. Shore bombardment can create decent odds for the attack.

∙ If there is an unguarded French or British fleet in port, consider a DOW to invade on top of that fleet; it might enable Italy to capture a lot of good units.

∙ Enter the war early, and have Germany spend massively on LL to Italy. This allows for both a strong air force for dominating sea areas, a strong sub force, and by the time of Barbarossa, a significant air force that can deploy east.

1940 (Mar/Apr)
∙ Delay DOW France until Germany is heavily engaged in France.

∙ DOW France when Italy can ground strike (using the surprise impulse) with 2 long range LNDs. This gives Italy a good chance to disorganize French HQs, LNDs, or FTRs behind the French front lines and lets the Germans concentrate on breaking the line with air power.

∙ DOW in early 1940. Italy does need the LL, but it is also nice to have time to extract the African forces before DOWing.

1940 (May/Jun)
∙ Wait for France to be nearly gone then DOW only CW. There is no point in fighting the French ships which may well be Vichy next turn. If Free France wants to help the CW in the Mediterranean later, they have to DOW Italy themselves at an US entry cost.

∙ If Germany is doing well in France, don't DOW until France falls and Italy only has to fight the CW.

∙ DOW France only and move the fleet away from the CW carriers.

1.1.2.2 CW
1939, 1940 (Jan/Feb)
∙ If the CW sets up strongly at sea in the Mediterranean, DOW France and CW on Impulse 3 and hit the CW at sea. Unless CW is lucky, it will lose a carrier and some damaged ships.

∙ If the CW brings Wavell out of the Middle East and puts him in France, DOW the CW and attack Egypt.

∙ If the Commonwealth heavily commits land forces to defending France (2-3 land units + 3-4 air units on the continent), take a hard look at Gibraltar, Malta, and Suez. The CW’s got to be weak somewhere and if Italy can seize one of those points, then an early DOW could be worth the risk.

∙ Enter the war early, and have Germany spend massively on LL to Italy. This allows for both a strong air force for dominating sea areas, a strong sub force, and by the time of Barbarossa, a significant air force that can deploy east.

1940 (Mar/Apr)
∙ Delay DOW CW until Germany is already engaged in France.

∙ DOW in early 1940. Italy does need the LL, but it is also nice to have time to extract the African forces before DOWing. It is best if the Allies DOW Italy, especially in 1939 or early 1940 when their chits are high. Since Italy doesn’t really need her fleet if just defending Italy, be willing to lose quite a chunk of the Italian navy if it delays US entry by a turn or two.

1940 (May/Jun)
∙ Wait for France to be nearly conquered and then DOW only CW.

1940 (Sep/Oct)
∙ After France falls or in Sep/Oct 1940 at the latest.

∙ DOW CW and France on Impulse 3 and hit the CW at sea. Unless CW is lucky, it will lose a carrier and some damaged ships.

1.1.2.3 USSR
∙ DOW USSR only if Italy is supporting Barbarossa.

∙ If Italy is providing assistance at the start of Barbarossa (e.g., with air units and/or HQs), it should DOW the USSR the same time that Germany does.

∙ Because both of the Italy versus USSR DOWs affect US Entry if the US is not yet in the war, the effect of the DOW on US Entry requires due consideration.

1.1.2.4 USA
∙ Never

1.1.2.5 China
∙ Never.
==================

[mldtchdog]

I haven’t played Italy in a long time – heck it’s been along time since I’ve played period but here is my view.
 

1.1.2 Major powers on which Italy declares war (CIC)

DOWing early exposes the Italian fleet but is counterbalanced by allowing Germany to send needed resources. This decision has both risk and reward, including its effect on US entry chits. It’s best to be aggressive in 1940 when the average of the US entry chits is low.

Grade A –also has the added benefit of increasing Italy’s production multiplier earlier.
 

1.1.2.1 France
1939, 1940 (Jan/Feb)
∙ If the CW sets up strongly at sea in the Mediterranean, DOW France and CW on Impulse 3 and hit the CW at sea. Unless CW is lucky, it will lose a carrier and some damaged ships.

Grade B – fair weather ; D –in bad; A- if convoy line is vulnerable. A devastating strike on convoy’s can do more to cripple the Brits than loosing a carrier.
 

1.1.2.1 France
1939, 1940 (Jan/Feb)
∙ If the French have garrisoned the Italian border poorly, consider an attack there instead of shipping troops to Libya. Shore bombardment can create decent odds for the attack.

Grade C – my experience is that in most cases it can turn into a minor bloodbath for little gain. There is the odd success though. I witnessed, err, experienced the Italian’s entering Paris from the south.
 

1.1.2.1 France
1939, 1940 (Jan/Feb)
∙ If there is an unguarded French or British fleet in port, consider a DOW to invade on top of that fleet; it might enable Italy to capture a lot of good units.

Grade A –major port; B/C- minor with capitol ships or AMPH/TRS
 

1.1.2.1 France
1939, 1940 (Jan/Feb) ∙ Enter the war early, and have Germany spend massively on LL to Italy. This allows for both a strong air force for dominating sea areas, a strong sub force, and by the time of Barbarossa, a significant air force that can deploy east.

Grade B/C – I know it’s a question of the quality of the air forces but how much can Germany really afford to give away?
 

1940 (Mar/Apr)
∙ Delay DOW France until Germany is heavily engaged in France.

∙ DOW France when Italy can ground strike (using the surprise impulse) with 2 long range LNDs. This gives Italy a good chance to disorganize French HQs, LNDs, or FTRs behind the French front lines and lets the Germans concentrate on breaking the line with air power.

∙ DOW in early 1940. Italy does need the LL, but it is also nice to have time to extract the African forces before DOWing.

Grade B – the forces in Africa are nice but too much effort shouldn’t be put into retrieving them
 

1940 (May/Jun)
 ∙ DOW France only and move the fleet away from the CW carriers.

Grade D – why waste surprise when you know those carriers are coming for you.
 

1.1.2.2 CW
1939, 1940 (Jan/Feb)
∙ If the CW brings Wavell out of the Middle East and puts him in France, DOW the CW and attack Egypt.

∙ If the Commonwealth heavily commits land forces to defending France (2-3 land units + 3-4 air units on the continent), take a hard look at Gibraltar, Malta, and Suez. The CW’s got to be weak somewhere and if Italy can seize one of those points, then an early DOW could be worth the risk.

Grade A – especially if Gibraltar is left very vulnerable.
 

1940 (Mar/Apr)
∙ Delay DOW CW until Germany is already engaged in France.

∙ DOW in early 1940. Italy does need the LL, but it is also nice to have time to extract the African forces before DOWing. It is best if the Allies DOW Italy, especially in 1939 or early 1940 when their chits are high. Since Italy doesn’t really need her fleet if just defending Italy, be willing to lose quite a chunk of the Italian navy if it delays US entry by a turn or two.

Grade C
 
 

1940 (May/Jun)
∙ Wait for France to be nearly conquered and then DOW only CW.

1940 (Sep/Oct)
∙ After France falls or in Sep/Oct 1940 at the latest.

Grade A – Italy has to be careful not to stir too many pots at once. Not enough resources so letting Germany do most of the destroying of France makes sense. Italy should defiantly be in the war by late 1940 tho.
[font="times new roman"] [/font]

1.1.2.3 USSR
∙ DOW USSR only if Italy is supporting Barbarossa.

Grade A if Italy is; E if not
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1.1.2.4 USA
∙ Never
 

Grade A – never do it
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1.1.2.5 China
∙ Never.

Grade A –never do it
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
Minors?
Yugoslavia – D
Greece – D if Britain is in a position to help
              B if there is little likely hood of immediate help

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Thanks, that helps a lot. You added a few new ideas there too.

I don't think it's possible for Italy to DOW and invade (say Marseille) even if it is empty - unless the amphibous rule is not being used. Without marines or AMPHs, the divisions are just too weak, even with bombardment and air support.

And if not using th eAmphibious rule, then the TRS have to be stacked together and are very vuilnerable in port.

Or did I miss something?

[mldtchdog]

As I said its been a long time since I've played and I didn't really calculate any attack odds when I was thinking about this.
 
I never even thought about what if when not playing with the amhibious rules.
 
Agree that the TRS should never/very rearly be stacked together prior to being at war and then only if there is decent aircover to protect them.

[composer99]

Aircover doesn't matter during the surprise impulse if the CW declares war on Italy.

[Froonp]

My try here. Not sure to have understood the overall layout as questions seem redundant. Maybe questions should have been clearly labelled & numbered, and comments be set aside ?

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
See if you can give a letter grade to these suggestions I have received from various forum members. A is excellent, B is very good, C is so-so, D is a bad idea - but maybe could be used rarely, and F means "never do this". If you want to add other conditions to your grade (e.g., B in good weather but F in bad weather), feel free to do so.

1.1.2 Major powers on which Italy declares war (CIC)

DOWing early exposes the Italian fleet but is counterbalanced by allowing Germany to send needed resources. This decision has both risk and reward, including its effect on US entry chits. It’s best to be aggressive in 1940 when the average of the US entry chits is low.

DOWing early for Italy : Grade A if a Gibraltar & close the med strat are underway. Grade D if a Barb is. Rationale is that the later Italy is in the war, the later will it be under CW pressure.

1.1.2.1 France
1939, 1940 (Jan/Feb)
∙ If the CW sets up strongly at sea in the Mediterranean, DOW France and CW on Impulse 3 and hit the CW at sea. Unless CW is lucky, it will lose a carrier and some damaged ships.

Grade D. One shot gains for lots of trouble and increased US Entry.

∙ If the French have garrisoned the Italian border poorly, consider an attack there instead of shipping troops to Libya. Shore bombardment can create decent odds for the attack.

Grade B.

∙ If there is an unguarded French or British fleet in port, consider a DOW to invade on top of that fleet; it might enable Italy to capture a lot of good units.

Grade C. Italian invasions are feeble.

∙ Enter the war early, and have Germany spend massively on LL to Italy. This allows for both a strong air force for dominating sea areas, a strong sub force, and by the time of Barbarossa, a significant air force that can deploy east.

Too early (before Germany enters France -- in case of a Barb) : Grade D. DoWing early is not allowing for a strong air force, a strong sub force, etc... Dowing early is a matter of turns, so the extra BP are not that many, especially because Germany does not have lots of extra RP early on.

1940 (Mar/Apr)
∙ Delay DOW France until Germany is heavily engaged in France.

Grade A.

∙ DOW France when Italy can ground strike (using the surprise impulse) with 2 long range LNDs. This gives Italy a good chance to disorganize French HQs, LNDs, or FTRs behind the French front lines and lets the Germans concentrate on breaking the line with air power.

Grade A.

∙ DOW in early 1940. Italy does need the LL, but it is also nice to have time to extract the African forces before DOWing.

Grade A.

1940 (May/Jun)
∙ Wait for France to be nearly gone then DOW only CW. There is no point in fighting the French ships which may well be Vichy next turn. If Free France wants to help the CW in the Mediterranean later, they have to DOW Italy themselves at an US entry cost.

Grade C.

∙ If Germany is doing well in France, don't DOW until France falls and Italy only has to fight the CW.

Grade C.

∙ DOW France only and move the fleet away from the CW carriers.

Grade C.

1.1.2.2 CW
1939, 1940 (Jan/Feb)
∙ If the CW sets up strongly at sea in the Mediterranean, DOW France and CW on Impulse 3 and hit the CW at sea. Unless CW is lucky, it will lose a carrier and some damaged ships..

Grade D. One shot gains for lots of trouble and increased US Entry.

∙ If the CW brings Wavell out of the Middle East and puts him in France, DOW the CW and attack Egypt.

Grade A.

∙ If the Commonwealth heavily commits land forces to defending France (2-3 land units + 3-4 air units on the continent), take a hard look at Gibraltar, Malta, and Suez. The CW’s got to be weak somewhere and if Italy can seize one of those points, then an early DOW could be worth the risk.

Grade A.

∙ Enter the war early, and have Germany spend massively on LL to Italy. This allows for both a strong air force for dominating sea areas, a strong sub force, and by the time of Barbarossa, a significant air force that can deploy east..

Too early (before Germany enters France -- in case of a Barb) : Grade D. DoWing early is not allowing for a strong air force, a strong sub force, etc... Dowing early is a matter of turns, so the extra BP are not that many, especially because Germany does not have lots of extra RP early on. In case of a Close the MEd strategy, DoWing early is Grade B.

1940 (Mar/Apr)
∙ Delay DOW CW until Germany is already engaged in France.

Grade C

∙ DOW in early 1940. Italy does need the LL, but it is also nice to have time to extract the African forces before DOWing. It is best if the Allies DOW Italy, especially in 1939 or early 1940 when their chits are high. Since Italy doesn’t really need her fleet if just defending Italy, be willing to lose quite a chunk of the Italian navy if it delays US entry by a turn or two.

Grade B

1940 (May/Jun)
∙ Wait for France to be nearly conquered and then DOW only CW.

Grade D. What's the interest ? If CW is DoWed, Italy should try to attack the CW while it is occupied elsewhere.

1940 (Sep/Oct)
∙ After France falls or in Sep/Oct 1940 at the latest.

Grade D. Same comment. If Italy have waited until that late, better let the brits DoW. But better hide the fleet too, and disperse the CP & TRS.

∙ DOW CW and France on Impulse 3 and hit the CW at sea. Unless CW is lucky, it will lose a carrier and some damaged ships.

Grade D

1.1.2.3 USSR
∙ DOW USSR only if Italy is supporting Barbarossa.

Grade A. Italy SHOULD support Barbarossa in any way that does not make Italy's Home Country weak and brittle.

∙ If Italy is providing assistance at the start of Barbarossa (e.g., with air units and/or HQs), it should DOW the USSR the same time that Germany does.

Grade A.

∙ Because both of the Italy versus USSR DOWs affect US Entry if the US is not yet in the war, the effect of the DOW on US Entry requires due consideration.

1.1.2.4 USA
∙ Never

Grade B if the USA are active and not yet at war with Germany & Italy, but it is clear that the US is up for a devastating suprise Impulse against Italy in the Med.

1.1.2.5 China
∙ Never.

Grade F

[composer99]

It is better for Italy (and Germany) to DoW USA if they can get off a good surprise impulse than let the USA get a good surprise impulse (strat bombing, maybe an invasion somewhere, supporting the CW) against them. So DoWing the US is Grade D/F most of the time, Grade B/A when they can sink a couple of AMPH or something.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Patrice & Christopher,

Thank you for your comments.

I have all these suggestions which appeared in this thread over the course of months, some received a lot of replaies and were discussed in detail. Others received little comment. In merging them into one system of decision making, I appreciate having other minds look at them critcially (or approvingly).

Yes, there is redundancy in the posed options. That's because the DOW on France and the CW are sometimes concurrent and sometimes separate. I decided to present the choices separately for France & the CW. In so doing, to cover all the possibilities, I put items down twice.

I would still ilke to hear from others, with their likes and dislikes for Italy's DOWs. But I now have a better sense of what weights/probablities to use.

[Zorachus99]

A different view on italy:

Primary Strategic Objective: Attempt U.S. entry actions in line with german objectives. If germany is delaying die rolls until 1940 to reduce the strength of the U.S. entry then Italy should dovetail with that unless one of a few significant tactical objectives are imminent.\

Strategic Objective 1: HQ, ATR, Medium bomber support for Barbarossa, force lend lease of german Militia by 1941.
Strategic Objective 2: Naval air war with britain for control of the Med, a few bombers for Barbarossa, Ftr & Land units for defense of Italy.
Strategic Objective 3: Naval air & ship building war with britain (dovetails with German Sealion), build Mar, attempt conquest of Malta, Greece, Gibralter, Egypt with German support. Build Amph/trs every other turn. Attempt to put Gibralter OOS, flipped & invade. Same Objectives if Germany invades Spain, except with expanded objectives if Sealion is in progress. Push hard with subs & attempt to lure brits into surface combat as units are moving into britain. If british ignore italy, put brits OOS & take as many med countries as possible.

Tactical Objectives:

1) If fully loaded CW CV with more than 6 air-to-sea factors appear in a seabox of '3' or higher off the coast of 75% of the whole italian fleet, consider DOW to prevent surprize impulse attack of the fleet. The reaction can't be certain so give it a percentage. If so base fighters near the fleet to intercept a port attack the impulse after DOW because large fleets in port should always have air cover. An attack with 6 CVP against 1 ftr often sees many aircraft clearing through. Ignore german complaints on this issue.

2) If Malta, Gibralter are ungarrisoned, consider attack with italian div (which should always be with a LS operationally). Give it a 90% chance of DOW to take advantage of the surprize impulse. If already at war and the above said ports are empty but have no units, attempt 4LS stab in the dark to take the port. The strategic value is much higher than the value of the units. Occasionally you win these close combats. An attempt at providing supply should be attempted as well (1 CP).

3) Fortify Tobruk or Tripoli towards the east, always in a coastal hex, & garrison the forts.

Secondary targets should include all countries at war with, vichy countries, greece.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99
A different view on italy:

Primary Strategic Objective: Attempt U.S. entry actions in line with german objectives. If germany is delaying die rolls until 1940 to reduce the strength of the U.S. entry then Italy should dovetail with that unless one of a few significant tactical objectives are imminent.\

Strategic Objective 1: HQ, ATR, Medium bomber support for Barbarossa, force lend lease of german Militia by 1941.
Strategic Objective 2: Naval air war with britain for control of the Med, a few bombers for Barbarossa, Ftr & Land units for defense of Italy.
Strategic Objective 3: Naval air & ship building war with britain (dovetails with German Sealion), build Mar, attempt conquest of Malta, Greece, Gibralter, Egypt with German support. Build Amph/trs every other turn. Attempt to put Gibralter OOS, flipped & invade. Same Objectives if Germany invades Spain, except with expanded objectives if Sealion is in progress. Push hard with subs & attempt to lure brits into surface combat as units are moving into britain. If british ignore italy, put brits OOS & take as many med countries as possible.

Tactical Objectives:

1) If fully loaded CW CV with more than 6 air-to-sea factors appear in a seabox of '3' or higher off the coast of 75% of the whole italian fleet, consider DOW to prevent surprize impulse attack of the fleet. The reaction can't be certain so give it a percentage. If so base fighters near the fleet to intercept a port attack the impulse after DOW because large fleets in port should always have air cover. An attack with 6 CVP against 1 ftr often sees many aircraft clearing through. Ignore german complaints on this issue.

2) If Malta, Gibralter are ungarrisoned, consider attack with italian div (which should always be with a LS operationally). Give it a 90% chance of DOW to take advantage of the surprize impulse. If already at war and the above said ports are empty but have no units, attempt 4LS stab in the dark to take the port. The strategic value is much higher than the value of the units. Occasionally you win these close combats. An attempt at providing supply should be attempted as well (1 CP).

3) Fortify Tobruk or Tripoli towards the east, always in a coastal hex, & garrison the forts.

Secondary targets should include all countries at war with, vichy countries, greece.

Thanks. The details of the tactical stuff are especially nice.

On the strategic plans for Italy I have the following typed in already. I have more notes but they have so many annotated changes from my last read-through I won't show them here. Basically, for each German choice I have a fixed (or possible range) of Italian decisions/choices. Once I get that cleanly edited, I want to put Scandinavia and the Balkans into the German Strategic Plans so I can figure out how Italy fits into them. [For Scandinavia, probably no effect on Italy, but German planning for the Balkans is crucial information for Italy.]

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1.1.7.1 Strategic plans
Italian strategic planning is totally dependent on which strategic plan Germany has chosen. Specifically, Italy needs to plan its actions according to how Germany is going to deal with France, the USSR, the United Kingdom, and the Mediterranean. Each German strategic plan has one choice from each of the following components.

∙ 1939 or 1940 Poland

∙ 1939 France and Lowlands: if France doesn't fall early, the Axis is in trouble.
∙ 1940 France and Lowlands (possibly Lowlands in 1939)
∙ France sitzkrieg: Germany takes a purely defensive position against France, which becomes a fearsome opponent in 1943-1945.

∙ 1940 or 1941 Barbarossa with massive Italian support (kitchen sink)
∙ 1941 Barbarossa
∙ 1942 Barbarossa: with the goal of complete conquest.
∙ 1942 Barbarossa: with the objective of pushing the Reds as far as possible, and destroying as much of the Red Army as possible to hamper its return in 1943/1944.
∙ USSR sitzkrieg

∙ 1940 - 1941, or 1941 Spain
∙ 1940 - 1941, or 1941 Gibraltar
∙ 1940 - 1941 Close the Mediterranean; this requires taking and holding both Gibraltar and Suez; the objective is to secure Italy and have the Italian fleet help against the UK.
∙ 1941 Close the Mediterranean: this requires taking and holding both Gibraltar and Suez.
∙ 1941 North Africa, Greece, and Malta: led by the Italians with some German support.
∙ No Mediterranean campaign

∙ 1939+ United Kingdom: submarine and strategic bombing campaigns - possibly very limited campaigns
∙ 1942 Sealion: with (or without) the goal of complete conquest.
∙ 1942 Sealion: with the objective of knocking out the UK, or damaging her so badly that it is less efficient in the Allied team for the Allied come back (conquering the southern plains up to Manchester).

[c92nichj]

1.1.2.1 France
1939, 1940 (Jan/Feb)
∙ If the CW sets up strongly at sea in the Mediterranean, DOW France and CW on Impulse 3 and hit the CW at sea. Unless CW is lucky, it will lose a carrier and some damaged ships.

B

∙ If the French have garrisoned the Italian border poorly, consider an attack there instead of shipping troops to Libya. Shore bombardment can create decent odds for the attack.

A-C depending on how poorly the french have garrisioned

∙ If there is an unguarded French or British fleet in port, consider a DOW to invade on top of that fleet; it might enable Italy to capture a lot of good units.

A- if that port is Malta or other objective otherwise C

∙ Enter the war early, and have Germany spend massively on LL to Italy. This allows for both a strong air force for dominating sea areas, a strong sub force, and by the time of Barbarossa, a significant air force that can deploy east.

C

1940 (Mar/Apr)

∙ Delay DOW France until Germany is heavily engaged in France.

B

∙ DOW France when Italy can ground strike (using the surprise impulse) with 2 long range LNDs. This gives Italy a good chance to disorganize French HQs, LNDs, or FTRs behind the French front lines and lets the Germans concentrate on breaking the line with air power.

B

∙ DOW in early 1940. Italy does need the LL, but it is also nice to have time to extract the African forces before DOWing.

B

1940 (May/Jun)
∙ Wait for France to be nearly gone then DOW only CW. There is no point in fighting the French ships which may well be Vichy next turn. If Free France wants to help the CW in the Mediterranean later, they have to DOW Italy themselves at an US entry cost.

C

∙ If Germany is doing well in France, don't DOW until France falls and Italy only has to fight the CW.

B

∙ DOW France only and move the fleet away from the CW carriers.

D

∙1.1.2.2 CW
1939, 1940 (Jan/Feb)
If the CW sets up strongly at sea in the Mediterranean, DOW France and CW on Impulse 3 and hit the CW at sea. Unless CW is lucky, it will lose a carrier and some damaged ships.

Depending on the potential damage to italian ships this can range from an A to a D, a consideration is to spread the fleet and TRS in impulse 1 and 3 to prevent an effective portstrike if that is not possible a dow can be preferable especially if you can hit the allied convoys during the suprise

∙ If the CW brings Wavell out of the Middle East and puts him in France, DOW the CW and attack Egypt.

A-B

∙ If the Commonwealth heavily commits land forces to defending France (2-3 land units + 3-4 air units on the continent), take a hard look at Gibraltar, Malta, and Suez. The CW’s got to be weak somewhere and if Italy can seize one of those points, then an early DOW could be worth the risk.

A for gibraltar B for Malta and Suez.

∙ Enter the war early, and have Germany spend massively on LL to Italy. This allows for both a strong air force for dominating sea areas, a strong sub force, and by the time of Barbarossa, a significant air force that can deploy east.

C

1940 (Mar/Apr)
∙ Delay DOW CW until Germany is already engaged in France.

B

∙ DOW in early 1940. Italy does need the LL, but it is also nice to have time to extract the African forces before DOWing. It is best if the Allies DOW Italy, especially in 1939 or early 1940 when their chits are high. Since Italy doesn’t really need her fleet if just defending Italy, be willing to lose quite a chunk of the Italian navy if it delays US entry by a turn or two.

not sure I understand the question but I think that if you can get the allies to dow that is prefereable.

1940 (May/Jun)
∙ Wait for France to be nearly conquered and then DOW only CW.

C

1940 (Sep/Oct)
∙ After France falls or in Sep/Oct 1940 at the latest.

C

∙ DOW CW and France on Impulse 3 and hit the CW at sea. Unless CW is lucky, it will lose a carrier and some damaged ships.

C

1.1.2.3 USSR
∙ DOW USSR only if Italy is supporting Barbarossa.

A

∙ If Italy is providing assistance at the start of Barbarossa (e.g., with air units and/or HQs), it should DOW the USSR the same time that Germany does.

A Or if she can break the pact by groundstriking a few russians who tries to stuff the border the impulse before the germans down

1.1.2.4 USA
∙ Never

D DOW when it is appearant that US will get into the war anyhow to avoid being hit by a suprise impulse

[Zorachus99]

Also strategically, additional cases:
 
1) to DOW France/CW to join the war & begin lend lease, in this case sending 1-2 ftr's & 1 Land 3 & HQ Arm can tip the balance of airpower in France and turn a 1:1 ratio to 1.5:1.
2) to attempt to remain out of the war until conquest of France.  This usually includes strategic plan to build units for barbarossa or superiority in the med, or both poorly and a real garrison of Libya.  This can delay US entry; makes the CW stronger, but tends to make Italy stronger as well for war in '40 when the French problem dissapears.  It is particularly nice to not lose a singe italian ship to the french and is a strategic benefit as some excellent italian units will be ready for the summer of '40.
3) attempt to force CW to declare war on Italy & stay out of the war for US entry purposes.
 
Another consideration: If Italy is only at war with one major power which is about to be conquered, another DOW is neccessary to keep Italy at war.  Otherwise Italy may become nuetral, and potentially suffer some unpleasant side effects.  It's a rare occurence, but must be considered.