AI for MWiF - France

[peskpesk]

Convoy route 3

[peskpesk]

Convoy route 4

[peskpesk]

Convoy route 5

[Shannon V. OKeets]

What Peter has done here is to define 5 possible convoy routes for the French, from which the AIO will chose (weighted probabilities as to which is chosen). Depending on which convoy route is chosen, there will be alternate deployments of the naval combat units - also with the specific deployment selected made using a weighted probability distribution.

If you have any comments about these convoy routes, we would love to hear them. If nothing else, you could help us decide on their probabilities.

Any suggestions about setting up the French naval combat units (they all have to be in ports) would be of interest to us too.

And lastly, if someone wants to get involved in this task of defining the deployment/setup of naval units, we have all the other major powers to do. Besides Global War, we are doing these for the scenarios Fascist Tide (a subset of Global War), Barbarossa (virtually no naval units), and Guadalcanal (which only has 3 major powers but has a lot of naval units which can be deployed at sea - since everyone is already at war).

[Ullern]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

What Peter has done here is to define 5 possible convoy routes for the French, from which the AIO will chose (weighted probabilities as to which is chosen). Depending on which convoy route is chosen, there will be alternate deployments of the naval combat units - also with the specific deployment selected made using a weighted probability distribution.

If you have any comments about these convoy routes, we would love to hear them. If nothing else, you could help us decide on their probabilities.

Any suggestions about setting up the French naval combat units (they all have to be in ports) would be of interest to us too.

And lastly, if someone wants to get involved in this task of defining the deployment/setup of naval units, we have all the other major powers to do. Besides Global War, we are doing these for the scenarios Fascist Tide (a subset of Global War), Barbarossa (virtually no naval units), and Guadalcanal (which only has 3 major powers but has a lot of naval units which can be deployed at sea - since everyone is already at war).

They are good. I know which one I would prefer, but variation is good too.
One thing though: If playing with limited overseas supply I think France must have CPs in both Western and Eastern Med. So I suggest a rule to exclude those without CPs in the Med (route 3 and 5) if using that optional. Will you have some AIO rule like that?

[MajorDude]

The order of probability for me is kind of the way they are numbered lol.

Route 1 is the most common.

Route 2 is the same but appears to be holding 2 convoys in port somewhere for future deployment.

Route 3 is an interesting alternative and almost looks like a Vichy France alternative if Germany and Italy are running the Med. Otherwise, the fact that it may not hook up with ports in "La France Metropolitane" (continental France - not DOM-TOM's), does not seem to be a very good thing if France is still producing units.

Route 4 is a very viable setup with 1 convoy in port. It heavily favors getting resources to France and is also a good stem for linking up with the U.S./G.B. for resource/build point trade agreements. It also covers the Med. so it is a win/win for France. The only dowside is that it ignores the world east of the Suez canal.

Route 5 is similar in some ways to route 3 - a bit isolationist or a country in retreat for whatever reasons. It is not a very attractive setup, although it is definitely defendable with a stem for U.S./G.B.

This brings up a final point. The more spread out your convoys are, the more vulnerable your trade routes are to attack. One link goes down and your resources don't leave port.

The more convoys you have in a sea area, the less likely it is for you to see this happen in 1 turn. It also allows for larger naval protection since they are not spread so thin.

So, in terms of naval protection:

Route 1 = quite vulnerable.

Route 2 = very vulnerable.

Route 3 = much less vulnerable at first (U-Boats can be very sneaky given enough time), but still very spread out and far away from large ports.

Route 4 = solid, but still quite vulnerable in the Med.

Route 5 = more solid, but nothing in the Med. thus resources lost.


These are just my quick observations, but I hope they help. [:)]

Thanks

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Convoy routes (Se images)
1: To get home Senegal, Iraq, Indo China. 0 CP in reserve.
2: To get home Senegal, Iraq, Indo China if not using Option 48, Option 31 or if France want to use the Oil for production. 2 CP in reserve.
3: To get home Senegal, Iraq and Commonwealth and France does not want any convoy chain running through the med. 0 CP in reserve.
4: To get home Senegal, Iraq and help the Commonwealth with the sub war in Atlantic.1 CP in reserve.
5: To get home Senegal and help the Commonwealth with the sub war in Atlantic and use the Iraq oil if the optional rules are right and Commonwealth helps as described earlier. Also CW gets help with over sea supply in the North Sea. 1 CP in reserve.

Good job as usual.
The #1 is my prefered one, by vey far. Having reserve is useless for me, and helping the CW is a waste of French RP for me.
But I know a lot of people think another way around.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Any suggestions about setting up the French naval combat units (they all have to be in ports) would be of interest to us too.

Global War French Navy deployment.

Most of the French Navy in Med ports to fight the Italians. Preferably Marseilles, because it is a city that is usualy defended and far from the Italians.

4-7 fast units in Brest, because Brest can sail into the North Sea and Baltic (if Denmark is not threatened, which may never happen, but who knows), and the Bay of Biscay indiferently. Preferably fast units that have 5+ in speed. These can help in the North Sea against the Kriegsmarine.

The Bearn far from a Port Strike that might put it in the repair pool and deny it to the US as a cheap TRS.

The TRS in the Med, to bring back troops from Africa / Near east.

The SUBs in the Med to kill precious Italian convoys.

Suicide runs in the Baltic are not my cup of tea.

[Gurggulk]

Correct me if i am wrong.
France has the following overseas Resources and oil Available.
Oil, One from Iraq
Resources, One each from the following colonies, Senegal, Algeria, Indo-China and New Caledonia.
--------------------------------------------------
If the goal is to get the Indo-China, Iraq and Algeria Resources, I think you would need the following convoy setup.
1 Convoy South China Sea
1 Convoy Bay of Bengal
1 Convoy Arabian Sea
1 Convoy Red Sea
2 Convoy West Med
3 Convoy East Med
1 convoy in reserve
Senegal is left out as there are not enough convoys to go around.

-------------------------------------------------
I would like to submit the following convoy lines for use when the oil option is in play.

Option A
1 Convoy South China Sea
1 Convoy Bay of Bengal
1 Convoy Arabian Sea
1 Convoy Red Sea
1 Convoy West Med
2 Convoy East Med
1 Convoy Cape Verde Basin
1 Convy Cape St. Vincent
1 Convoy Bay of Biscay
0 Convoy in reserve.
This brings Senegal, Algeria, Indo-China, resources to France. The Oil is Railed to a city in Syria to save for a rainy day.
Advantage is maximum resources for France to use, but saves oil overseas. No reserve if loss is taken.

Option B
Ignore the Indo-China Resource and go with,
1 Convoy West Med
1 Convoy East Med
1 Convoy Cape Verde Basin
2 Convy Cape St. Vincent
2 Convoy Bay of Biscay
3 convoy in reserve, 1 placed in the following ports, Djibouti, Marseilles, Brest.
Advantage, oil is recieved in France to save rather than overseas. Which can be of some help if needed for Production at later date. Reserve convoys can be used to send oil or resources to CW if requested.

The following is an option for French Naval Deployment. Global War or Fasicst Tide.

Naval Deployments, All BB's and All Light Ships with a Range of 2, deployed in Marseilles. If the AA unit is picked at start, Place with this Fleet.
Submarines & transport placed in Beruit.
Carrier with all Light Ships range 3 or greater in Brest.
Single Light Ship Pacific, Reunion Island.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this deployment to be acceptable for use with or without option, Limited overseas supply.

I do thinkl there should be an setup for when oil is an option and when it is not. Also Limited overseas supply option makes a difference in naval setup.

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: Gurggulk

Correct me if i am wrong.
France has the following overseas Resources and oil Available.
Oil, One from Iraq
Resources, One each from the following colonies, Senegal, Algeria, Indo-China and New Caledonia.
--------------------------------------------------
If the goal is to get the Indo-China, Iraq and Algeria Resources, I think you would need the following convoy setup.
1 Convoy South China Sea
1 Convoy Bay of Bengal
1 Convoy Arabian Sea
1 Convoy Red Sea
2 Convoy West Med
3 Convoy East Med
1 convoy in reserve
Senegal is left out as there are not enough convoys to go around.

-------------------------------------------------
I would like to submit the following convoy lines for use when the oil option is in play.

Option A
1 Convoy South China Sea
1 Convoy Bay of Bengal
1 Convoy Arabian Sea
1 Convoy Red Sea
1 Convoy West Med
2 Convoy East Med
1 Convoy Cape Verde Basin
1 Convy Cape St. Vincent
1 Convoy Bay of Biscay
0 Convoy in reserve.
This brings Senegal, Algeria, Indo-China, resources to France. The Oil is Railed to a city in Syria to save for a rainy day.
Advantage is maximum resources for France to use, but saves oil overseas. No reserve if loss is taken.

Option B
Ignore the Indo-China Resource and go with,
1 Convoy West Med
1 Convoy East Med
1 Convoy Cape Verde Basin
2 Convy Cape St. Vincent
2 Convoy Bay of Biscay
3 convoy in reserve, 1 placed in the following ports, Djibouti, Marseilles, Brest.
Advantage, oil is recieved in France to save rather than overseas. Which can be of some help if needed for Production at later date. Reserve convoys can be used to send oil or resources to CW if requested.

The following is an option for French Naval Deployment. Global War or Fasicst Tide.

Naval Deployments, All BB's and All Light Ships with a Range of 2, deployed in Marseilles. If the AA unit is picked at start, Place with this Fleet.
Submarines & transport placed in Beruit.
Carrier with all Light Ships range 3 or greater in Brest.
Single Light Ship Pacific, Reunion Island.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this deployment to be acceptable for use with or without option, Limited overseas supply.

I do thinkl there should be an setup for when oil is an option and when it is not. Also Limited overseas supply option makes a difference in naval setup.

A standard way to transport the resources
* Algeria by railway, over Gibraltar and railway through Spain

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Gurggulk

Correct me if i am wrong.
France has the following overseas Resources and oil Available.
Oil, One from Iraq
Resources, One each from the following colonies, Senegal, Algeria, Indo-China and New Caledonia.
--------------------------------------------------
If the goal is to get the Indo-China, Iraq and Algeria Resources, I think you would need the following convoy setup.
1 Convoy South China Sea
1 Convoy Bay of Bengal
1 Convoy Arabian Sea
1 Convoy Red Sea
2 Convoy West Med
3 Convoy East Med
1 convoy in reserve
Senegal is left out as there are not enough convoys to go around.

"Convoy routes 1" in peskpesk suggestion actually brings 4 of those resources/oil home to France. The only one you need to leave is the one from New Caledonia.

You do not need any CP to get the Algeria resource to France. You can rail it through Gibraltar and Spain.

To get the Senegal Resource to France you only need 2 CP. One in Cape Verde Basin and one in Cape St. Vincent. From there it go by Cadiz and Spain by rail to France.

[Gurggulk]

I see my convoy suggestion is already outdated. [>:] Thanks for letting me know about the Spanish connection for resource aquisition. Consider the previous convoy options null and void.
 
The Naval deployments are still valid? [:)]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Gurggulk

I see my convoy suggestion is already outdated. [>:] Thanks for letting me know about the Spanish connection for resource aquisition. Consider the previous convoy options null and void.

The Naval deployments are still valid? [:)]

If it's any consolation, the use of Spain for transhipping French resources was news to me when I first heard about it (many months ago).

[Gurggulk]

Spain is such a fickle European nation. Helping France transport resources to fight Germany, then sending Germany a resource after France falls.
[X(] 
[font=times]

[font=times]Spain[/font]
While Paris is Axis controlled, a neutral Spain must supply Germany with 1 resource a turn.

 
Thanks for the consolation. I'll try to do better in reading previous posts before adding more obsolete convoy routes.[/font]

[Gurggulk]

BTW Where should we post Naval Deployments for the other nations? Is there a particular thread or a thread similar to this one for each nation?

[Zenra]

Gurggulk,
 
You will find similar AI discussions / suggestions for all nations, Major and Minor, here...

[Gurggulk]

Thanks Alot!
Now i can spend some time reading and then posting some obsolete naval deployments. [:'(]

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Convoy routes (Se images)
1: To get home Senegal, Iraq, Indo China. 0 CP in reserve.
2: To get home Senegal, Iraq, Indo China if not using Option 48, Option 31 or if France want to use the Oil for production. 2 CP in reserve.
3: To get home Senegal, Iraq and Commonwealth and France does not want any convoy chain running through the med. 0 CP in reserve.
4: To get home Senegal, Iraq and help the Commonwealth with the sub war in Atlantic.1 CP in reserve.
5: To get home Senegal and help the Commonwealth with the sub war in Atlantic and use the Iraq oil if the optional rules are right and Commonwealth helps as described earlier. Also CW gets help with over sea supply in the North Sea. 1 CP in reserve.

Good job as usual.
The #1 is my prefered one, by vey far. Having reserve is useless for me, and helping the CW is a waste of French RP for me.
But I know a lot of people think another way around.

I put one convoy in the E. & W. Med and the two for Senegal. All the rest go on the Australia to Canada run (sometimes the two for Senegal go there too and France loses a BP in SO39). When France falls they return to New Caledonia and almost always become Free French. They can even be left at sea the turn of Vichy as there are no other ports to return to. (Will have to recheck this with the MWIF map.)

If I want to top up resources to France, that starts in ND39 with help from the CW.

Edit: Actually the CW can carry the French resources and France can carry CW resources starting the first turn. The two just can't lend to each other until ND39. So you can get resources to France and still save the French convoys from Vichy.

[peskpesk]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Convoy routes (Se images)
1: To get home Senegal, Iraq, Indo China. 0 CP in reserve.
2: To get home Senegal, Iraq, Indo China if not using Option 48, Option 31 or if France want to use the Oil for production. 2 CP in reserve.
3: To get home Senegal, Iraq and Commonwealth and France does not want any convoy chain running through the med. 0 CP in reserve.
4: To get home Senegal, Iraq and help the Commonwealth with the sub war in Atlantic.1 CP in reserve.
5: To get home Senegal and help the Commonwealth with the sub war in Atlantic and use the Iraq oil if the optional rules are right and Commonwealth helps as described earlier. Also CW gets help with over sea supply in the North Sea. 1 CP in reserve.

Good job as usual.
The #1 is my prefered one, by vey far. Having reserve is useless for me, and helping the CW is a waste of French RP for me.
But I know a lot of people think another way around.

I put one convoy in the E. & W. Med and the two for Senegal. All the rest go on the Australia to Canada run (sometimes the two for Senegal go there too and France loses a BP in SO39). When France falls they return to New Caledonia and almost always become Free French. They can even be left at sea the turn of Vichy as there are no other ports to return to. (Will have to recheck this with the MWIF map.)

If I want to top up resources to France, that starts in ND39 with help from the CW.

Edit: Actually the CW can carry the French resources and France can carry CW resources starting the first turn. The two just can't lend to each other until ND39. So you can get resources to France and still save the French convoys from Vichy.

Good suggestion, will make a convoy route 6 with one convoy in the E. & W. Med and the two for Senegal. All the rest go on the Australia to Canada to help CW.

[peskpesk]

French Naval setup plans
5 French Naval setup from which the AIO will chose (weighted probabilities as to which is chosen). Any suggestions about setting up the French naval combat units are welcome ( I guess there are almost as many variant as there are players), maybe we got to few setups or missing an important variant or (what the heck is that BB doing there! [;)]). There are also 5 French Naval setup when playing with CiF.

All setup plans have some common part the basic plan:

Basic plan:
* TRS and small escort force ready to bring Syria INF home
* A very small escort force in Dakar (Senegal)
* Some escort/suicide force in Brest
* Asian/Pacific base in Noumea (New Caledonia)/Hanoi (Indo China)
* Submarines in Marseille

Specific plan (See images, note all variations is not shown)

Main base Marseille, CV Brest
Idea
* Move main force with one Naval move, combined impulse more easy
* Keep CV safe from the Italians
* Fight the IT navy with full force if needed

Two main bases Marseille and Brest
Idea
* Maximum AA against Italy with a low profile force in Marseille
* Later after Italy enters the war, reinforce the Med with more ships from Brest if needed
* Help CW fight German Navy if needed
* More escort in against subs in the Atlantic
* Shore bombardment in North Sea if needed
* Help the CW fight the IT navy
* Keep CV safe from the Italians

Oran
Idea
* Move main force with one Naval move, combined impulse more easy
* Navy safe from Italian port strike during surprise
* If needed CV can fight the Italians
* Fight the IT navy with full force if needed
* Navy safe from IT invasion during surprise if French Morocco/Algeria/Tunis INF guarding it

Main base Marseille, risk CV
* Move main force with one Naval move, combined impulse more easy
VMay lure the Italians to declare war (The US got enough TRS and How bad can Bearn be as a IT CV [;)] )
* Fight the IT navy with full force if needed

Main base Morocco and Brest
* Later after Italy enters the war, reinforce the Med if needed
* Navy safe from Italian port strike during surprise
* Navy safer from IT invasion during surprise
* Help the CW fight the IT navy
* More escort against subs in the Southern regions of the Atlantic
* Keep CV safe from the Italians