The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[GreyJoy]

Roger that. Thanks !

[GreyJoy]

My aces...

[Jzanes]

Your list of aces really shows how good the Spitfire VIII is. From my match vs. Rader, I find that they are still superior to most japanese fighters in 1945. I can just imagine what they do to late 1942/early 1943 japanese fighters.

[GreyJoy]

Yes, they are UFO-fighters. They are supposed to fight the Me109Gs and the FW-190A4s not the Zeros...

However in Karachi, against the waves of Tojos, they fell off the skies in good numbers (lost 40 of them in 45 days)...while here in the pacific they are become really Uber weapons

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Perhaps I should explain my thoughts about your use of the Allied carriers.

The Solomons are and will be a target-rich environment that is also incredibly hazardous.  A very experienced player might well commit his carriers there, knowing when not to use them and when to use them.  He would be very nervous the whole time, because he would remember the times when he was a newb, committed his carriers, and got thrashed.

If your carriers are in a target-rich environment, you're going to succumb to the temptation to use them.  You won't be able to help yourself.  And rader, being a very experienced player, knows how and when to use the KB.  Since the KB is almost always stronger than the Allied carriers in 1942 and 1943, your almost certainly going to lose the resulting fight.  Lose it in a very big way.  It's going to crush your spirits like nothing else has done in the game to date.

You are struggling to survive against an experienced opponent who is able to mass forces beyond anything ever seen in AE (due to his conquest of China and most of India).  Your carriers are the one thing that permit you to impose temporary superiority in any location in which your carriers are and the KB isn't.  That means you stil pose a strategic threat to Japan.  But once you lose your carriers, you become much less of a threat...and you also find yourself in the position of only being able to fight under cover of LBA until 1944.  The game becomes a real drudge for an Allied player fighting under those circumstances.

I know CR...i know the temptation will be huge...and difficult to resist...but if i don't bring them in, i won't be able to react when the time of another invasion will come (and i'm sure it will). I won't be able to stand another push. We all know that. If Tulagi falls, if Rennell and Russell become operative japanese AFs...everything will be lost. the whole Guadalcanal will be lost.
I cannot lose my Carriers, i know. But can i efford to lose 130,000 men? (consider that i've already lost 20,000 of them at PM).... don't think so. if the Solomons get penetrated, i won't be able to defend Ndeni, or Lungaville nor Noumea...the SOlomons are my shield at the moment and i need to fight with everything i have to keep this shield still on my left harm. Solomons are the rock against which the japanese waves must be crushed. We have to resist...and hope.
Soon those 5000 AVs that conquered PM will be ready to land somewhere else. Tassafarong for or Lunga for example...my fleet is the only thing that can keep them away.

I second CR here. His advice is sound. Let Rader know your carriers are lurking. Make him think that you are willing to use them, but don't. Only use them if you are "certain" of a victory. Be very cautious. You hold excellent land bases and they should be the point of your defense and air attacks. My point is Rader is now committed to Tulagi. You no longer need to guess where his shipping and for the most part KB is going to be. He has no choice but to support Tulagi or try to evacuate. Because of that, if you hold on to Tulagi-even to Lunga for the next four months you will have effectively negated his ability to maneuver. If your carriers are intact come April 1943, and you still have him engaged then you will then hold the advantage. You have a great advantage in that he has offered you battle in a place where you do not necessarily need to use your carriers. So don't if you can avoid it. His obvious goal is air attrition. One major carrier battle even if it is a draw will sorely deplete your carrier aircraft as the replacement rate is so low. He knows that...Your sole purpose of your carriers at this point is as as reserve and to exploit any mistake he might make. Otherwise they must stay alive.

One note, I am never adverse to using my carrier aircraft from land. They are just as deadly flying from Lunga and he can't sink Lunga. But only use them when you really need it or when the target is just too good to pass up. (major warships) as your replacement rates for your naval aircraft are pitiful and a major fight will take months for you to replace lost aircraft.


You are doing an excellent job. BTW

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Perhaps I should explain my thoughts about your use of the Allied carriers.

The Solomons are and will be a target-rich environment that is also incredibly hazardous.  A very experienced player might well commit his carriers there, knowing when not to use them and when to use them.  He would be very nervous the whole time, because he would remember the times when he was a newb, committed his carriers, and got thrashed.

If your carriers are in a target-rich environment, you're going to succumb to the temptation to use them.  You won't be able to help yourself.  And rader, being a very experienced player, knows how and when to use the KB.  Since the KB is almost always stronger than the Allied carriers in 1942 and 1943, your almost certainly going to lose the resulting fight.  Lose it in a very big way.  It's going to crush your spirits like nothing else has done in the game to date.

You are struggling to survive against an experienced opponent who is able to mass forces beyond anything ever seen in AE (due to his conquest of China and most of India).  Your carriers are the one thing that permit you to impose temporary superiority in any location in which your carriers are and the KB isn't.  That means you stil pose a strategic threat to Japan.  But once you lose your carriers, you become much less of a threat...and you also find yourself in the position of only being able to fight under cover of LBA until 1944.  The game becomes a real drudge for an Allied player fighting under those circumstances.

I know CR...i know the temptation will be huge...and difficult to resist...but if i don't bring them in, i won't be able to react when the time of another invasion will come (and i'm sure it will). I won't be able to stand another push. We all know that. If Tulagi falls, if Rennell and Russell become operative japanese AFs...everything will be lost. the whole Guadalcanal will be lost.
I cannot lose my Carriers, i know. But can i efford to lose 130,000 men? (consider that i've already lost 20,000 of them at PM).... don't think so. if the Solomons get penetrated, i won't be able to defend Ndeni, or Lungaville nor Noumea...the SOlomons are my shield at the moment and i need to fight with everything i have to keep this shield still on my left harm. Solomons are the rock against which the japanese waves must be crushed. We have to resist...and hope.
Soon those 5000 AVs that conquered PM will be ready to land somewhere else. Tassafarong for or Lunga for example...my fleet is the only thing that can keep them away.

I second CR here. His advice is sound about the carriers. The only difference is that I like fighting in the Solomons rather than retreating. Let Rader know your carriers are lurking. Make him think that you are willing to use them, but don't. Only use them if you are "certain" of a victory. Be very cautious. You hold excellent land bases and they should be the point of your defense and air attacks. My point is Rader is now committed to Tulagi. You no longer need to guess where his shipping and for the most part KB is going to be. He has no choice but to support Tulagi or try to evacuate. Because of that, if you hold on to Tulagi-even to Lunga for the next four months you will have effectively negated his ability to maneuver. If your carriers are intact come April 1943, and you still have him engaged then you will then hold the advantage. You have a great advantage in that he has offered you battle in a place where you do not necessarily need to use your carriers. So don't if you can avoid it. His obvious goal is air attrition. One major carrier battle even if it is a draw will sorely deplete your carrier aircraft as the replacement rate is so low. He knows that...Your sole purpose of your carriers at this point is as as reserve and to exploit any mistake he might make. Otherwise they must stay alive.

One note, I am never adverse to using my carrier aircraft from land. They are just as deadly flying from Lunga and he can't sink Lunga. But only use them when you really need it or when the target is just too good to pass up. (major warships) as your replacement rates for your naval aircraft are pitiful and a major fight will take months for you to replace lost aircraft.


You are doing an excellent job. BTW

[GreyJoy]

Breaking news.
 
We lost 3 RN BBs today, plus 2 RN CAs, 2 CLs and several minor ships...most of it due to a mistake of mine, while the Ramille got simply unlucky fighting against 6 japanese DDs in single ship TF at Tulagi....[:o]

[jeffk3510]

GreyJoy-

I haven't posted here in a while like I used to. I have been so busy it's not even funny. Keep up the good work. I knew things would turn around for you before too long.

Jeff

[GreyJoy]

a terrible turn indeed. Got slaughtered at Karachi again, where he's winning the air war...have no more planes to send in the air...the we tried to bomb scoodra after that our subs for 2 weeks weren't been spotted...what a bad idea...we came out from the Aden Channell and 50 Netties ate us alive...

[SoliInvictus202]

OUCH.... you'll run out of ships [:D]- keep it up!

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Wow! Look at those Kate and Val losses. As this is WITP Scenario 2 it's going to takes days, maybe even a full week to fully reload the KB again! Seriously, I wonder how the KB's "quality of pilot" is fairing?

His original PH raid pilots will be long dead by now. In fact just about every pilot will probably have 50 overall exp level and 70 specfic skill (Air/NavB/Torpedo). These are still quite deadly in a CV battle..........

The scenario is irrelevent in the matter of pilot training, but of course a/c production numbers are higher in 2.

[ADB123]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Breaking news.

We lost 3 RN BBs today, plus 2 RN CAs, 2 CLs and several minor ships...most of it due to a mistake of mine, while the Ramille got simply unlucky fighting against 6 japanese DDs in single ship TF at Tulagi....[:o]

That's why I said to go in with DDs first. DDs are very hard to hit with torpedoes - and as you've found out so painfully, BBs aren't.

And BTW - when your DDs are with your BBs your DDs only go as fast as your BBs, and so they become much more vulnerable to torpedoes.

As far as Ramilles goes - the Game favours fast ships over slower ships in battle, so 30 knot DDs will usually kill 21 knot BBs.

Keep your slow BBs at home, or use them to escort Supply/Fuel TFs well back from the Front. You'll want to have a few of them in 1944/1945 when you are invading atolls.

[GreyJoy]

Yes guys, i was an idiot. Admit that. Been too "easy" and every time you're easy this game (and Rader) punishes you.
 
I'll do a comprehensive summery of the "fatal" day later.
 
However i announce that the aerial battle for Karachi is now lost. During the last 2 weeks we've not been able to fight back anymore...we're losing far too many planes and killing far too few planes...and my numbers are so small that now he can freely bomb me to dust without fearing anymore my fighters...i have to retire them from the front...no other choices...[:o] Karachi is safe however and we'll be back as soon as we're gonna be able to fight back again.
 
 

[GreyJoy]

Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Makinami, Shell hits 5,  heavy fires
 
Allied Ships
      BB Revenge
      BB Ramillies, Shell hits 2
      CA Australia
      CL Leander
      CL Trenton
      DD Aaron Ward
      DD Jarvis
      DD McCall
      DD Maury
      DD Wilson
 
 
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 8,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Sagiri
 
Allied Ships
      BB Revenge
      BB Ramillies
      CA Australia
      CL Leander
      CL Trenton
      DD Aaron Ward
      DD Jarvis
      DD McCall
      DD Maury
      DD Wilson
 
  
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Sazanami, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
 
Allied Ships
      BB Revenge
      BB Ramillies
      CA Australia
      CL Leander
      CL Trenton
      DD Aaron Ward
      DD Jarvis
      DD McCall
      DD Maury
      DD Wilson
 
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Oshio, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
 
Allied Ships
      BB Revenge
      BB Ramillies, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
      CA Australia
      CL Leander
      CL Trenton
      DD Aaron Ward
      DD Jarvis
      DD McCall
      DD Maury
      DD Wilson, Shell hits 1
 
  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Teruzuki, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
 
Allied Ships
      BB Revenge, Shell hits 1
      BB Ramillies,  on fire
      CA Australia
      CL Leander
      CL Trenton
      DD Aaron Ward
      DD Jarvis
      DD McCall
      DD Maury, Shell hits 1
      DD Wilson,  on fire
 
  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards
 
Allied aircraft
      no flights
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Akebono, Shell hits 1
 
Allied Ships
      BB Revenge
      BB Ramillies, Shell hits 19, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
      CA Australia
      CL Leander
      CL Trenton, Shell hits 1
      DD Aaron Ward, Shell hits 1,  on fire
      DD Jarvis
      DD McCall
      DD Maury
      DD Wilson,  on fire
 
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Kazegumo, Shell hits 2
 
Allied Ships
      BB Revenge, Shell hits 2
      CA Australia
      CL Leander, Shell hits 1
      CL Trenton
      DD Aaron Ward
      DD Jarvis
      DD McCall
      DD Maury, Shell hits 4,  on fire
      DD Wilson
 
 
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Usugumo, Shell hits 1
 
Allied Ships
      BB Revenge, Torpedo hits 1
      CA Australia
      CL Leander, Shell hits 2
      CL Trenton
      DD Aaron Ward,  on fire
      DD Jarvis
      DD McCall
      DD Maury,  on fire
      DD Wilson
 
 

[GreyJoy]

Morning Air attack on TF, near Socotra at 14,5
 
Weather in hex: Light rain
 
Raid detected at 105 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      G3M2 Nell x 25
      G4M1 Betty x 49
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      no flights
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      G3M2 Nell: 12 damaged
      G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak
      G4M1 Betty: 12 damaged
      G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed by flak
 
No Allied losses
 
Allied Ships
      BB Royal Sovereign, Torpedo hits 6, and is sunk
      BB Resolution, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
      CA Cornwall, Torpedo hits 1
      CL Dauntless, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
      CL Hobart
      CA Exeter
      CA Dorsetshire, Torpedo hits 1
      CL Capetown, Torpedo hits 2,  heavy damage
      CL Ceres, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
 
 
Aircraft Attacking:
      23 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
               Naval Attack:  1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
      26 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
               Naval Attack:  1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
      21 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
               Naval Attack:  1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Socotra at 14,5
 
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
 
Raid detected at 97 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      G3M2 Nell x 21
      G4M1 Betty x 36
 
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      G3M2 Nell: 9 damaged
      G4M1 Betty: 5 damaged
 
Allied Ships
      CA Cornwall
      DD Nizam
      CA Exeter
      CA Dorsetshire, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
      CL Hobart, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
      CL Ceres, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk

[GreyJoy]

You see...i cannot stand anymore against these numbers at Karachi...
 
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8
 
Weather in hex: Severe storms
 
Raid detected at 170 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 53 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      Ki-21-IIa Sally x 56
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 319
      Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 105
      Ki-48-Ib Lily x 65
      Ki-49-IIa Helen x 279
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      Hurricane IIc Trop x 31
      Kittyhawk III x 4
      Kittyhawk III x 6
      P-38F Lightning x 1
      P-39D Airacobra x 9
      P-40K Warhawk x 30
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
      Ki-21-IIa Sally: 2 destroyed by flak
      Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
      Ki-48-Ib Lily: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
      Ki-48-Ib Lily: 1 destroyed by flak
      Ki-49-IIa Helen: 9 destroyed, 6 damaged
      Ki-49-IIa Helen: 4 destroyed by flak
 
Allied aircraft losses
      Albacore I: 2 destroyed on ground
      B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed on ground
      Wellington Ic: 1 destroyed on ground
      TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed on ground
      PBY-5A Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground
      B-25C Mitchell: 2 destroyed on ground
      Beaufort V: 1 destroyed on ground
      C-47 Skytrain: 1 destroyed on ground
 
 
 
Airbase hits 21
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 16

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
     DD Makinami, Shell hits 5,  heavy fires

Allied Ships
     BB Revenge
     BB Ramillies, Shell hits 2
     CA Australia
     CL Leander
     CL Trenton
     DD Aaron Ward
     DD Jarvis
     DD McCall
     DD Maury
     DD Wilson




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
     DD Sagiri

Allied Ships
     BB Revenge
     BB Ramillies
     CA Australia
     CL Leander
     CL Trenton
     DD Aaron Ward
     DD Jarvis
     DD McCall
     DD Maury
     DD Wilson

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
     DD Sazanami, Shell hits 9, and is sunk

Allied Ships
     BB Revenge
     BB Ramillies
     CA Australia
     CL Leander
     CL Trenton
     DD Aaron Ward
     DD Jarvis
     DD McCall
     DD Maury
     DD Wilson



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
     DD Oshio, Shell hits 4, and is sunk

Allied Ships
     BB Revenge
     BB Ramillies, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
     CA Australia
     CL Leander
     CL Trenton
     DD Aaron Ward
     DD Jarvis
     DD McCall
     DD Maury
     DD Wilson, Shell hits 1

 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
     DD Teruzuki, Shell hits 12, and is sunk

Allied Ships
     BB Revenge, Shell hits 1
     BB Ramillies,  on fire
     CA Australia
     CL Leander
     CL Trenton
     DD Aaron Ward
     DD Jarvis
     DD McCall
     DD Maury, Shell hits 1
     DD Wilson,  on fire

 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
     no flights

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
     DD Akebono, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
     BB Revenge
     BB Ramillies, Shell hits 19, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
     CA Australia
     CL Leander
     CL Trenton, Shell hits 1
     DD Aaron Ward, Shell hits 1,  on fire
     DD Jarvis
     DD McCall
     DD Maury
     DD Wilson,  on fire



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
     DD Kazegumo, Shell hits 2

Allied Ships
     BB Revenge, Shell hits 2
     CA Australia
     CL Leander, Shell hits 1
     CL Trenton
     DD Aaron Ward
     DD Jarvis
     DD McCall
     DD Maury, Shell hits 4,  on fire
     DD Wilson


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
     DD Usugumo, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
     BB Revenge, Torpedo hits 1
     CA Australia
     CL Leander, Shell hits 2
     CL Trenton
     DD Aaron Ward,  on fire
     DD Jarvis
     DD McCall
     DD Maury,  on fire
     DD Wilson

He is using multiple one ship DD TFs on purpose? If so I was wrong and the guy is total cheese. I would say that is about as gamey as it comes if he is doing it. on purpose.

[Miller]

I agree. Looks like a ploy to use up all your TFs Op points and therefore more likely to leave it in range of his Netty's come daylight.....

[ny59giants]

I allow and use one ship TF only for Dec 41 when the Allies are in headlong retreat from manila and other places. Afterwards, I will use 2 or 3 ship TF even as picket ships as the AI will often ignore one ship TF and not launch attacks against them.

This tactic was very gamey, IMO. He should have used 4 two ship SC TF vs 8 single ship TF.

[GreyJoy]

He wanted to sweep my PTs to say the truth... I admit that i changed my PTs disposition after the what ADB told me (about their effectiveness).
If it's gamey to use single DD TFs so it's game to flood a base with multiple 2 PTs TFs...so i'm guilty as much as he is...[:o]