Comprehensive Wishlist

Post discussions and advice on TOAW scenario design here.

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Panama
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by Panama »

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick
ORIGINAL: Telumar
I thought (or better: dreamed [8|]) of a complete rebuilt of the scenario editor. Seperating the editor from the game. Using some Windows API/Menues/GUI instead of the TOAW like GUI. Like most games - where the editor is an extra executable.

Import images directly as a map, the designer could assign terrain types to certain colours (or colour ranges) and or defined areas (which could be drawn) on the map. Or simply import an image file as an overlay/layer to create your map upon. Own layers could be added, one could contain rails and roads, others cities etc, just for the comfort of editing. When the scenario or the map is saved it would be combined into a "one layer" TOAW map.. a design file could be retained that contains the original image and layers.
...ok maybe i got carried away, don't know if this can be done for IV. Time wise i mean. Coded it could be, if it is (considered) worth the effort is the question..
The short answer is that is remarkably like what I've been thinking about (except for the layers).

Scenarios can now be saved as XML and edited as XML and loaded. That isn't an accident, it is so that I can look at creating the editor as a stand-alone product, possibly before the next game. Portions (except for possibly the map drawing portion/graphics) might be released as open source. It's all speculation at this point, but the editor is very complicated and opening it up to have other people work on it seems like a good idea to me. It would also let me look at the user interface code more closely and how to write it using modern tools.

I've also thought about allowing a 'map overlay' of a jpeg where you can set the opacity and use it as a design aid.

All this is a ways off still, but I've thought about doing something like that.


I've tried editing the map XML directly a couple of times. Very tricky.
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Curtis Lemay
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by Curtis Lemay »

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

Scenarios can now be saved as XML and edited as XML and loaded. That isn't an accident, it is so that I can look at creating the editor as a stand-alone product, possibly before the next game.

Or...some enterprising free-lance programer out there could design a stand-alone editor - then Ralph would be free to focus on other things.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by sPzAbt653 »

... a stand-alone editor ...

Doesn't the ODD serve that purpose? I haven't used it but I looked at it. Just wondering what the difference is.
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Curtis Lemay
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by Curtis Lemay »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
... a stand-alone editor ...

Doesn't the ODD serve that purpose?

Apparently not to the satisfaction of Telumar.
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Curtis Lemay
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by Curtis Lemay »

ORIGINAL: Panama

I've tried editing the map XML directly a couple of times. Very tricky.

The last two scenarios I've worked on, I did the events via an XML editor. If you're doing a lot of them, that may be the way to go.
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Panama
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by Panama »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
... a stand-alone editor ...

Doesn't the ODD serve that purpose? I haven't used it but I looked at it. Just wondering what the difference is.

I've tried to use it. Some kind of documentation would help.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Some kind of documentation would help.

There is an 'ODD Help File' included with the download. I just glanced at it and it looks like it has a lot of explanation.
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berto
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by berto »

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

Scenarios can now be saved as XML and edited as XML and loaded. That isn't an accident, it is so that I can look at creating the editor as a stand-alone product, possibly before the next game. Portions (except for possibly the map drawing portion/graphics) might be released as open source. It's all speculation at this point, but the editor is very complicated and opening it up to have other people work on it seems like a good idea to me. It would also let me look at the user interface code more closely and how to write it using modern tools.

...

All this is a ways off still, but I've thought about doing something like that.

Open Sourcing parts of TOAW would be A Very Good Thing. Might even revive my, now defunct, interest in the game.
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Panama
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by Panama »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Some kind of documentation would help.

There is an 'ODD Help File' included with the download. I just glanced at it and it looks like it has a lot of explanation.

Oh, you mean the .hlp file that isn't supported by Vista or Windoze 7? And when you download the little program from Microshaft that is supposed to make the .hlp files work but instead it says, 'failed to open, try moving the .hlp file to another hard drive'? That file? [:D]
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Yeah, that's the file. [:'(]

I'm stuck with XP and W98, so I wasn't aware that I have an advantage !! I wonder if Curt is aware that file doesn't work in later os's.
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shunwick
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by shunwick »

I would like PO-controlled units to respect borders.

That is to say, units of formations with objectives across borders can cross them but units of formations that do not have objectives set over the border cannot.

Units unable to cross borders but forced over due to combat should be automatically disbanded - guerrillas excepted.

Best wishes,
Steve
I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...
ColinWright
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by ColinWright »

ORIGINAL: shunwick

I would like PO-controlled units to respect borders.

That is to say, units of formations with objectives across borders can cross them but units of formations that do not have objectives set over the border cannot.

Units unable to cross borders but forced over due to combat should be automatically disbanded - guerrillas excepted.

Best wishes,
Steve

There are exclusion zones and unplayable hexes -- so this problem is already at least partially addressed.

I'd argue instead for the ability to create more than two exclusion zones and the ability to activate them as well as remove them. That would permit more simulation of borders and facilitate other things as well.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I'd argue instead for the ability to create more than two exclusion zones and the ability to activate them as well as remove them.


I agree with this tremendously. How about 99 of them? That would be crazy, but once we have them I bet we can figure out how to use them. [:D]
ColinWright
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by ColinWright »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
I'd argue instead for the ability to create more than two exclusion zones and the ability to activate them as well as remove them.


I agree with this tremendously. How about 99 of them? That would be crazy, but once we have them I bet we can figure out how to use them. [:D]

Activating as well as removing might pose some sort of technological challenge, but it's hard to see what could be difficult about having more than two exclusion zones.
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BigDuke66
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by BigDuke66 »

I guess its they way the game is programmed, we have a lot limits but at them moment I remember only that the Events are up to 999 from 500 and I think more names on map are possible, if this and maybe some other minor stuff is all that had their limits raised there must be a reason and I guess that is the way the game was programmed. I really hope Ralph can break some more of those limits.
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Panama
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by Panama »

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

I guess its they way the game is programmed, we have a lot limits but at them moment I remember only that the Events are up to 999 from 500 and I think more names on map are possible, if this and maybe some other minor stuff is all that had their limits raised there must be a reason and I guess that is the way the game was programmed. I really hope Ralph can break some more of those limits.

AFAIK, raising the limits on data would be one of the easiest things to do. Equipment slots, number of units, map size, equipment db, number of formations, number of place names. Things like that. An object is information. More objects are easy. It's manipulating that information that gets time consuming. That part is already there. At least in my limited programming experience it seems that's the general picture.
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shunwick
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by shunwick »

Ignore this...see later.

Best wishes,
Steve
I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...
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shunwick
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by shunwick »

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

ORIGINAL: shunwick

I would like PO-controlled units to respect borders.

That is to say, units of formations with objectives across borders can cross them but units of formations that do not have objectives set over the border cannot.

Units unable to cross borders but forced over due to combat should be automatically disbanded - guerrillas excepted.

Best wishes,
Steve

There are exclusion zones and unplayable hexes -- so this problem is already at least partially addressed.

I'd argue instead for the ability to create more than two exclusion zones and the ability to activate them as well as remove them. That would permit more simulation of borders and facilitate other things as well.

Colin,

Partially addressed yes and I certainly support the call for more exclusion zones. But my problem is trying to keep provincial militia inside their provinces and not start wandering into other provinces. I can't use either exclusion zones or unplayable hexes for this since I need the other provinces to be playable.

Hence the need for PO controlled units to respect borders. There are a few exisiting scenarios that would benefit from that as well.

Best wishes,
Steve
I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...
ColinWright
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:28 pm

RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by ColinWright »

ORIGINAL: shunwick

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

ORIGINAL: shunwick

I would like PO-controlled units to respect borders.

That is to say, units of formations with objectives across borders can cross them but units of formations that do not have objectives set over the border cannot.

Units unable to cross borders but forced over due to combat should be automatically disbanded - guerrillas excepted.

Best wishes,
Steve

There are exclusion zones and unplayable hexes -- so this problem is already at least partially addressed.

I'd argue instead for the ability to create more than two exclusion zones and the ability to activate them as well as remove them. That would permit more simulation of borders and facilitate other things as well.

Colin,

Partially addressed yes and I certainly support the call for more exclusion zones. But my problem is trying to keep provincial militia inside their provinces and not start wandering into other provinces. I can't use either exclusion zones or unplayable hexes for this since I need the other provinces to be playable.

Hence the need for PO controlled units to respect borders. There are a few exisiting scenarios that would benefit from that as well.

Best wishes,
Steve

It's certainly a valid desire, and in fact I'm having to use house rules to deal with a similar problem in a scenario I'm working on (the Vichy French in Syria mustn't go and mount a drive on the Suez Canal, Italians can't move into Turkey, etc).

However, it might be fairly hard to program.

Problem is that the 'borders' are basically eye candy. It would probably be hard to get the program to actually pay attention to them. One would probably want to go at it by coming up with a category of exclusion zone that only affected units of specified formations.
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Panama
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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist

Post by Panama »

Maybe something in the event editor. A rows/column type restriction. Wouldn't be perfect but might be the easiest. Could also lift the restriction that way.
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