Extreme Challenge Demonstration Game

[vahauser]

Riun T,

You aren't even playing the way FlashFyre said.

Here is what FlashFyre said.




"A true Challenge Campaign, against the AI, without involving other players, would require the use of the following settings:

AI Advantage - ON
AI Level - 200
Reduced Squads - ON
Reduced Ammo - ON
Weapon Breakdowns - ON
Vehicle Breakdowns - ON
Mines - ON
Command & Control - ON
Use the Hardx2 setting for all battles
Select one of the 6 major nations for your HQ, but then only buy allied equipment (if British, only buy Indian, for example)
Set Spotting to 70% for Player 1, 100% for Player 2
Use Historic Ratings as designed "


So, when you bought all U.S. Army stuff, you weren't following what FlashFyre said. FlashFyre said to pick one of the 6 major nations and then only buy Allied equipment for that nation. You didn't do that.

[azraelck]

ORIGINAL: vahauser

azraelck,

I've done a lot more thinking about it since my epiphany a few days ago.

I'm willing to back off my Either-Or statements regarding Cat1 and Cat2 players.

My thinking has evolved past that.

Here is what I now believe.

Imagine a continuum:


Category1 <----------------------------------------------------------> Category2


The more towards Cat1 a player tends, then the more he wants the game to mirror his (not necessarily somebody else's) vision of WW2 history. The more towards Cat2 a player tends, then the less he cares about any historical vision whatsoever.

What I was calling Cat1 and Cat2 a few days ago, I now believe was simply expressing players in terms of either extreme end of the continuum.

Now, my personal theory as to why there are so few Cat2 players on these forums...

Cat1 players (especially the extreme ones) have a strong personal vision of WW2 history. They seek to validate their vision on forums like this one. That's my theory. So, the Cat1 guys come to this forum to debate and discuss their visions of history.

On the other hand, the Cat2 guys (who don't care much about visions of history in terms of SPWAW) are too busy playing and don't care much about talking. [Actually, not entirely true. Cat2 players do find LOTS to talk and argue about, just not visions of SPWAW history.] Hence, most Cat2 players don't spend much time on forums like this.

So why does a pretty extreme Cat2 player like me hang out on this forum? Mainly, to gain a competitive advantage. How is that, you ask? Well, by surfing forums like this one, maybe I can pick up new tricks and new loopholes that I can exploit and abuse in my next game.

Now that, I can accept; that your categories are simply the extreme ends of a broad spectrum, which is what they truly are. This is what I've been arguing all along!

As to Historical Ratings; Everyone is going to be biased in one way or another. I feel that Enhanced is probably as close as is'll get to a real historic rating; as it was not one but a few men (and maybe women, I only remember Alby and a few others! Unless Alby's a woman...[:D]). I usually play with them on.

Now, to our PBEM game, I'm sorry for skipping a couple days. I found out yesterday morning that my cousin, who was the incredibly ancient age of 27, was found dead on his couch by his wife. And today I spent 14 hours wandering around outside in drizzling rain, 20mph northerly winds, and rather cold temps to one wearing a shirt made to keep you cool in the summer, and used to 90-100 degree temps. That was my job today. So I missed out on a nice, long argument that I still haven't managed to read the entire thing of, since you've deleted the text in your posts.

I'm rather apathic to things like this myself; a year-long PBEM in another game that didn't even make it to 10 turns in that time (IIRC, we had done 7 turns when I was forced out due to computer trouble... It's still going on, though I've since surrendered my army, and left it alone. It's on it's 3rd year). My only desired conventions are these:

Meeting engagement; 1500 point cores.
No utilizing equipment not avaliable to your nation.
'Minor' vs 'Minor', or 'Major' vs 'Major'; not Germany with her Tiger II's vs Spainiards with Panzerkampfwagen IIs...
Mines off, I'm not in the mood to replay Somme or Verdun.
Spotting at 80% (my usual setting for dealing with the AI), Arty 140% (also my usual setting). Reduced Squads, ammo, Vehicle breakdowns, weapon breakdowns, on.
C&C off.

Battlefield can be anywhere, anytime. I'd prefer a randomly generated one, so both of us are going in "blind". No going through a map two and three times in the editor to see positions and develop your strategy.

Player number matters about as much as the paint on a car; it's only there to keep things from falling apart after a little rain.

Keep in mind, I have not set up SPWaW for any gaming save vs the AI, only only rarely in anything other than long campaigns. So I'll probably defer the actual setup to you.

I have Enhanced FV installed, but without that last little patch Alby uploaded that I've never gotten around to using. I also have a stock, 8.043 version, but I was using it to play with the OoB editor a bit. I can reinstall the stock OoBs if necessary.

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: azraelck

I only remember Alby and a few others! Unless Alby's a woman...[:D]). I usually play with them on.

[:-]

[azraelck]

So... you are a woman then? [8D]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: azraelck

So... you are a woman then? [8D]

[azraelck]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: azraelck

[azraelck]

[Alby]

wtf is puller alarm anyway??

[azraelck]

ORIGINAL: Alby

wtf is puller alarm anyway??

You know, I was kinda wondering that too... I figured if you posted it, you knew what it was! [8|]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: azraelck

ORIGINAL: Alby

wtf is puller alarm anyway??

You know, I was kinda wondering that too... I figured if you posted it, you knew what it was! [8|]

was the only "mean" sign left

I think
[&:]

[azraelck]

None of these count?

I still wonder what that means though...

[Alby]

Count this!!


[:D]

[azraelck]

[Alby]

Josey Wales!!!
[X(]
Take this!!!

[azraelck]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: azraelck

[X(]

[azraelck]

[:D][:D][:D][:D]My gun's bigger than yours![:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Riun T]

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Riun T,

My background in military history: 
One of my university degrees (University of Texas) is in History with a concentration in military history and U.S. foreign policy.  For several years I was editor of The Europa Magazine, which published articles on WW2 in Europe.  I also served in the U.S. Air Force (I flew in B-52 bombers).  So, yes, I have a military background.From what years, in what branch,COMM,ARMOURMENTS,LOGISTICS<

As for categorizing players, I think that is a very useful concept.  I think that before you start a game (say a PBEM game) if you know going into that game the kind of player you are playing with, that information can solve problems before they can begin.ALL hoping that HE DOESN"T LIE!!!!
For instance, Alby was stirring the pot, and called for you and me to play a PBEM game.  Now, since you are a Category I player and I am a Category II player, any PBEM game we played would almost certainly have had unpleasant consequences.  Rather than deal with that unpleasantness, it was in the best interest for us not to play a PBEM game together.  No good would come of it. HE SAYS BEING confiDENT IN WHAT HE BELIEVES MY CAT.2 PLAYING ABILITIES ARE!! Best to play Category I vs. Category I, and best to play Category II vs. Category II. 
Bad to play Category I vs. Category II.

When I started the thread German Long Campaign Extreme Challenge, I didn't realize when I started that thread that that campaign was designed for Category II players.  I only realized that this morning.  So I made those comments this morning to warn Category I players that they would probably not enjoy that campaign.  I am sad that there are so few Category II players on this forum.  I wish there were more, but I accept the reality.

[Riun T]

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

After re-reading the Extreme Challenge thread, and these other collateral ones, I dawned on me what the problem might be: The interpretation that this Challenge campaign is for everyone. Let me try to explain what I see as the problem.

This campaign system is designed to allow two human players to compare how they play the campaign, without actually facing each other. In other words, Player A plays this campaign against the AI, as does Player B, and when both are done, they compare the field not for the AI, but for the individual players. And this system is best used in a End Results to see who is the better player. The restrictions imposed are designed to "level"tournament-style challenge, where 2 or more human players wish to know how they rank against each other as "campaign players", not PBEM players.
Unfortunately, most players out here don't really care how they "stack up" against another human when it comes to playing against the AI; they want to know who's better at H2H meetings, with no AI involved. And this campaign does not do that; result, most players don't see it as a challenge for the player against the AI.

A true Challenge Campaign, against the AI, without involving other players, would require the use of the following settings:

AI Advantage - ON
AI Level - 200
Reduced Squads - ON
Reduced Ammo - ON
Weapon Breakdowns - ON
Vehicle Breakdowns - ON
Mines - ON
Command & Control - ON
Use the Hardx2 setting for all battles
Select one of the 6 major nations for your HQ, but then only buy allied equipment (if British, only buy Indian, for example)
Set Spotting to 70% for Player 1, 100% for Player 2
Use Historic Ratings as designed

There may be some other settings that would make the Challenge more challenging to veteran players, but these are most of the important ones.

BOLD is the referance to play perimeters and what they SHOW!!
UNDERLINED IS ALSO INCLUDING THE RARITY ON FOR THE YEARS COVERED FOR THE CAMPAIGN,historical ratings augement rarity settings.