MWiF Map Review - America

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: spence
Just passing through.  The Connecticut River (the one just East of Bridgeport) should run a more Northerly course (pretty much due North).  Up where I live now (near the Canadian border it is easily fordable over most of its length.  If I was drawing the map I'd end the river hexside in between the two mountain hexes two hexrows North of the Boston hexrow (not trying to be snotty just I've fished pretty much the whole river so I know it's depth and width pretty well).

I corrected that, plus added the Cincinnati - Detroit rail that WiFzimmerman mentionned, and redrew slightly the coast betwween NYC and Newark so that the river is better seen.
I also shown the 4 cities that are proposed to be added (Columbus, Louisville, Grand Rapids, Syracuse).

I would like opinions about the latest especially.

Also, I would like opinions about the addition of Sudbury and Regina in Canada (See posts #132 and #134 for a map showing them).

Yes to all.

Very nice.

[pak19652002]

Does the resource in 64,313 represent the anthracite fields of PA? This is the hex where the Delaware and Susquehanna rivers terminate (or begin, actually).

If so, I question whether the Susquehanna should be extended northward three hexsides. As you can see from the attached map, the Susquehanna begins in New York, east of Syracuse, roughly on a straight line from Rochester. Of course, it empties into the Chesapeake Bay. I would start it the "4 o'clock" point of Syracuse's hex (that hexside is already a river hex anyway). That would match the map very well.

The Delaware River also appears to be one hexside short since it begins at the northeastern-most boundary of NY and PA, in a straight line from . I would extend it one hexside up, along the eastern side of 64,313. I'll send the DE map in another email.


This is a homer email as I live in hex 64, 313, if it does indeed represent the coal fields of northeastern PA.

Peter

[pak19652002]

And here is the map of the Delaware River. It should begin roughly at the same latitude of Erie, Hartford and Providence. None of these cities are on the MWiF map, but, if they were, extending the river one hexside north would match up remarkably well it seems to me.

Peter

[pak19652002]

While we're at it, would someone define for me the city selection criteria? I remember some talk about 100,000 population, but with exceptions. Looking at some of the northeast cities during my river review made me think about it. You've got a bunch of pretty good-sized cities that aren't on the map. But, I'm sure you already know that.

Peter

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

And here is the map of the Delaware River. It should begin roughly at the same latitude of Erie, Hartford and Providence. None of these cities are on the MWiF map, but, if they were, extending the river one hexside north would match up remarkably well it seems to me.

Peter

The question is where the river first becomes an obstacle to moving military units. At some point it is too narrow and/or shallow to be important. But eventually both these rivers become substantial military obstacles. There are also issues related to the steepness of the river banks or where it runs through canyons. The Delaware River Gap comes to mind.

By the way, we are looking for 'homer' viewpoints. It saves us from having to tramp over all the world land masses during each season of the year with transits and other surveying gear.

[pak19652002]

Well, al I can say that both these rivers are pretty big by the time they get down to my neck of the woods (which apparently is north of where they start in MWiF). I can't say when they might become a military barrier without some defining criteria. The Susquehanna is pretty impressive all the way up. There is also a western branch that's pretty deep and dangerous. Recall the 1972 flood that flooded NY and PA. Anyway, I would be willing to scout the Susquehanna and Delaware Rivers if you give me the criteria. It would be a fun project I could get my 13 year old to help out with.

Peter

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

And here is the map of the Delaware River. It should begin roughly at the same latitude of Erie, Hartford and Providence. None of these cities are on the MWiF map, but, if they were, extending the river one hexside north would match up remarkably well it seems to me.

Peter

The question is where the river first becomes an obstacle to moving military units. At some point it is too narrow and/or shallow to be important. But eventually both these rivers become substantial military obstacles. There are also issues related to the steepness of the river banks or where it runs through canyons. The Delaware River Gap comes to mind.

By the way, we are looking for 'homer' viewpoints. It saves us from having to tramp over all the world land masses during each season of the year with transits and other surveying gear.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

Well, al I can say that both these rivers are pretty big by the time they get down to my neck of the woods (which apparently is north of where they start in MWiF). I can't say when they might become a military barrier without some defining criteria. The Susquehanna is pretty impressive all the way up. There is also a western branch that's pretty deep and dangerous. Recall the 1972 flood that flooded NY and PA. Anyway, I would be willing to scout the Susquehanna and Delaware Rivers if you give me the criteria. It would be a fun project I could get my 13 year old to help out with.

Peter

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

And here is the map of the Delaware River. It should begin roughly at the same latitude of Erie, Hartford and Providence. None of these cities are on the MWiF map, but, if they were, extending the river one hexside north would match up remarkably well it seems to me.

Peter

The question is where the river first becomes an obstacle to moving military units. At some point it is too narrow and/or shallow to be important. But eventually both these rivers become substantial military obstacles. There are also issues related to the steepness of the river banks or where it runs through canyons. The Delaware River Gap comes to mind.

By the way, we are looking for 'homer' viewpoints. It saves us from having to tramp over all the world land masses during each season of the year with transits and other surveying gear.

Yikes! [X(] My comment about transits was meant as a joke. Additional information is always helpful, but muddy boots?

I do not know what criteria to use. My best idea would be to compare maps showing European rivers and the WIF FE European map to better understand where ADG had rivers 'begin'.

[pak19652002]

Well, I was thinking more of kayaking the rivers[;)], but boots would work too.

I get the picture. I'll report in a few weeks with results.

[Froonp]

I do not know what criteria to use. My best idea would be to compare maps showing European rivers and the WIF FE European map to better understand where ADG had rivers 'begin'.

Well, I for one have a tendency to trust the CWiF's map first designer(s).
Even if there are scores of places where I found improvements to be made, generaly the map is well done and represents the areas in a good way.

In that particular case, there are quite al ot of rivers in the area, and maybe making those longer risk making this place too much "River rich".

[pak19652002]

It raises a fair philosophical question: Are we going for geographic fidelity or some sort of playability test? I only got interested in this case because I know the area. However, I see many sites are under consideration for tweaking. It seems once this box is opened there is no end to it!

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I do not know what criteria to use. My best idea would be to compare maps showing European rivers and the WIF FE European map to better understand where ADG had rivers 'begin'.

Well, I for one have a tendency to trust the CWiF's map first designer(s).
Even if there are scores of places where I found improvements to be made, generaly the map is well done and represents the areas in a good way.

In that particular case, there are quite al ot of rivers in the area, and maybe making those longer risk making this place too much "River rich".

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: pak19652002
It raises a fair philosophical question: Are we going for geographic fidelity or some sort of playability test? I only got interested in this case because I know the area. However, I see many sites are under consideration for tweaking. It seems once this box is opened there is no end to it!

Well, the maps are changing from WIF FE due to the conversion to the European scale throughout the world. We've been reexamining all the maps with the philosophical criteria of:

1 - True to WIF FE
2 - True to geographical reality (the "real world")
3 - Playability considerations (e.g., supply lines, available invasion and attack hexes on important hexes).

#1 gets diluted because the European scale provides more detailed terrain. There are simply more hexes that have to be filled in with something. How the rivers run changes too. And given the increase in detail, we decided that we should use that opportunity to make improvements. Indeed, the non-European maps from WIF FE did not have the capability of being drawn with so much detail because of their larger scale.

#2 is the basis for any changes we make.

#3 intrudes rarely, and has to do with very specific cases. For example: supply in eastern USSR, invading Singapore, attacking Calcutta.

[pak19652002]

In that case, I'm going to strap up the ole boots and do some groundtruthing.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: pak19652002
It raises a fair philosophical question: Are we going for geographic fidelity or some sort of playability test? I only got interested in this case because I know the area. However, I see many sites are under consideration for tweaking. It seems once this box is opened there is no end to it!

Well, the maps are changing from WIF FE due to the conversion to the European scale throughout the world. We've been reexamining all the maps with the philosophical criteria of:

1 - True to WIF FE
2 - True to geographical reality (the "real world")
3 - Playability considerations (e.g., supply lines, available invasion and attack hexes on important hexes).

#1 gets diluted because the European scale provides more detailed terrain. There are simply more hexes that have to be filled in with something. How the rivers run changes too. And given the increase in detail, we decided that we should use that opportunity to make improvements. Indeed, the non-European maps from WIF FE did not have the capability of being drawn with so much detail because of their larger scale.

#2 is the basis for any changes we make.

#3 intrudes rarely, and has to do with very specific cases. For example: supply in eastern USSR, invading Singapore, attacking Calcutta.

[composer99]

Out of curiosity, why is there that tundra in Newfoundland? I haven't been to the area, but I do know people from The Rock (as it is affectionately known), and I suppose I could ask them what the terrain is like. I wouldn't think it was tundra, though.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: composer99
Out of curiosity, why is there that tundra in Newfoundland? I haven't been to the area, but I do know people from The Rock (as it is affectionately known), and I suppose I could ask them what the terrain is like. I wouldn't think it was tundra, though.

I've got no idea, and I'm interested in the opinion of people living there.

[Froonp]

Fed up of Frozen, or Tundra like landscapes ?
Here is what the Bahama & Cuba should be looking like.

[Froonp]

Here are the Antilles. Hummm.... can nearly feel the taste of rum cocktails.
This area strongly reminds me of the famous PC game, Pirate (Sid Meyer's). What a great experience !!!! [:D]

[Froonp]

And here is Panama.
Colon & Panama City are both adjacent to Both Sea Areas.

[sajbalk]

Should Lake Maricaibo in Venz. be invadeable? If WiFFE had been made to this scale, I'm sure it would merit a special straits rule, like Gibraltar, London, Istanbul, or the Baltic.
 
Suggest either a new rule, or make it a geographically incorrect lake.
 
 

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp
And here is Panama.
Colon & Panama City are both adjacent to Both Sea Areas.

All 3 of these are very pretty Patrice. This one reminds me that when traveling through the Panama Canal from west to east, you are going from the Atlantic to the Pacific. And of course there is the wonderful palindrome: "A man a plan a canal Panama".

[YohanTM2]

It seems odd there is Tundra in lower Nfld. Certainly Labrador should perhaps have more but I would think those tundra hexes should be broken terrain?