1.04.11 Klydon (Axis) vs Hfarrish (Soviet) No Hfarrish please

[Peltonx]

Try your best to finish of them productions pts.

He should have a strong winter O, so dig dig dig for your life.

As can be seen from my AAR and Q-Balls forts are a life saver.

Pelton

[Q-Ball]

That railnet looks pretty good. I would try to break it where it runs too close to the front at Vishney Volochek, but it looks like by Pskov you almost have redundancy, courtesy of some Construction Bns.

I like to build tons of FORT ZONES, and pick them up first turn of Blizzard. They can get a little building done.

Always take an opportunity to "Flip" empty hexes to your control. Soviet units burn alot of MPs flipping hexes. It takes 11 or so to flip and Deliberate attack, so Soviet options are limited if you can do this.

[Klydon]

Turn 19 complete. I only launched one attack up north with 16th army. The rest of the front I tried to leave alone as much as possible so my guys would do maximum digging. The Finns spot an interloper coming north of Lake Beloe, so I have to send some troops up to properly greet our guest. Terrible area for both of us during mud.

I have started to withdraw some infantry units that should stay over 85 moral after refitting. (have about 3 earmarked right now). These units do not withdraw from the game and will likely winter in Poland and act as OKH reserve. A motorized division with 92 moral and near full ToE is also on the way back from PG4 to join my reserve panzer corps sitting in Poland as well. This will form a strong spearhead panzer corps for summer of 42 operations as all three divisions should be elite. I also hope to withdraw Wiking in the south for the same reasons. It is the only SS division that does not depart. While it still has elite status, the division is in pretty bad shape and needs to be rehabbed. Unfortunately it appears there are no other panzer divisions that will keep their elite status, especially ones that do not depart. I think 10th panzer probably has a good chance, but it will depart for Africa. I may try to withdraw it to rehab over winter if I can, but it is pretty far from the rail lines. A learning experience for sure on the Panzer divisions this game as they have taken far heavier losses than I have been used to. OKH reserves also currently include the two mountain divisions that are now up to 100% ToE. 1st Mountain has retained its elite status as well.

@Q-Ball: yeah, VV is the weak point. I almost went further back to the west, but that would have been a lot of hexes to make up for the same thing not to mention it is not any place close to the front, so I sort of have rolled the dice a bit. I am trying to hedge my bet some with 2nd Army trying push with 16th army on that salient. Hfarrish has been giving ground here to prevent those units from being encircled, so hopefully between the "mud" push and a short snow offensive, I can get him back a reasonable amount from the rail line there.

@Pelton and TD: I am digging the best I can, but probably have been moving units around too much. The opportunity at Stalino may cost me in the long run because it disrupted my digging in the south with the Rumanians. However, I think it will be worth it if I can knock the Stalino industry out. Losing 8% of the armaments is a noble goal and that is what will happen if Stalino goes down. I probably need to learn to get to my spots and then start digging early if I can. Pelton is really good at this and very disciplined. I think I followed more Tarhunnas pattern, except hopefully since I don't have to deal with the Crimea, my line is far shorter than what he had. 

[Klydon]

Turn 20 and 21 done for the Germans. Not much happen obviously with the mud, although turn 21 was a little busier. I now will have a north/south line along the entire front I can more easily rail troops with. He continues to pull back up by VV, so that makes my rail junction there more safe hopefully. Turn 21 saw the 9 infantry divisions and the brigade bite the dust as I cleaned up the pockets. The question could be asked as to why I took so long to get around to it and that is after October, Russians don't get any units back for free anymore. With turn 21 being Nov 6 and killing those units now, it is 10 fewer units I will see in the spring. It isn't earth shattering or anything, but it is about an Armies worth of counters he has to build if he wants them.

Some milestones this turn. Russians are finally over the 3 million mark for casualties and 10k aircraft have bitten the dust.

I have also transferred 2nd Army to AGN from AGC to help ease the command situation and 3rd Rumanian army joins 4th Rumanian army under the command of AG Antonescu. This leaves the loading on AGN, AGC, and AGS at 98, 110, and 117 respectively, so much better. I have a little more work to do even with the command cap increases to 108 on 4/42. That also does not count several units that are now OKH reserves, including a panzer corps, 2 mountain divisions and some other units I am in the process of withdrawing. I am trying to pull some elite level (86+ moral) units out and spare them the winter in Russia. They will form the spearhead of any potential spring/summer offensive I plan on launching and can also serve as a last ditch reserve in case winter goes horribly wrong. The mountain units will be committed for winter obviously. I am not sure quite where yet, but I have to suspect the middle where 9th army and 6th army are will be the prime target. I have no depth there and there isn't a ton of fortifications once he cracks the crust of the main line. Given the amount of reserves he has shown up with behind his lines, he is thinking the same thing.

Partisans are starting to show up, but I have tried to make sure I have my garrisons taken care of, so it has not been a real issue yet. I am working on pulling the SS cav brigade back and they will be on partisan wack-a-mole duty.

The minor ally mountain units likely won't play much of a role in the winter fighting unless Hfarrish decides to try some amphibs since I have one in the Crimea and two others guarding ports against potential invasions. That leaves one available and I put it under German command.

With the start of snow next turn, I will see about posting some screen shots, etc. As far as snow goes, I am sort of undecided at the moment. I think for the most part, I don't intend to do much as the Germans as I need more time digging. The one place operations are likely to be fluid at are down south with Stalino. I have 9 divisions of 11th army ready to go and a panzer corps as well for an assault next turn. The city garrison has not cracked 100 shown defense yet, but it is getting there. Will be a level 3 fort. I have been busy reassigning support units, etc. The divisions are pretty much all at 75% or better ToE and I think I have 4 on refit this turn behind the lines, so I should get a good attack off on him and just have to see how it shakes out. Bagging the industry and armaments down there would help my moral at this point as I don't think have caused enough casualties or wiped out enough of his industry and I know I am in for it in the middle from his offensive. (although that is sort of by design).

After cleaning out the pockets, the Rumanians will spend snow likely marching up north behind 17th and 6th army and seeing about helping them with some digging. I have already sent 1 panzer corps from PG1 sort of headed up that way to help out as well. I should probably wind up with a panzer corps each for 6th, 17th, and 11th army. I will likely do the same for PG4 up north and assign a panzer corps to 16th, 2nd and 18th armies. That just happens to leave 2 PG3 panzer corps and a PG2 panzer corps for the two armies of AGC. I may also try to get another panzer corps back west to winter however so I have the equivalent of a PG rather than a panzer corps, but we shall see.

[Klydon]

Turn 22 11/13/41. First turn of snow.

No attacks by the Russians this last turn. Partisans are becoming more active, especially north of the swamp. I had been pulling the SS cav brigade back for partisan duties, so that should help. I will likely need to see about getting some additional troops on the job to try to keep their progress at a minimum.

Screen shot is shown after most recon is done. Digging proceeds, but not as fast as I would like, especially in the 4th army sector. Given the increasing numbers of Russian units forming up well back from the front for the Russian winter offensive, this is rather bad. Not sure there is a lot I can do about it, but will look to try to set it up so they can shorten up their line and set aside some reserves. There is no doubt that my line is going to "bulge" here and I need to get some slack in the rubber band sooner rather than later.

Typically in the past, I have attacked during the snow for the most part just to try to disrupt the Russians as much as possible. I don't think that is very wise this time around. My guys need to desperately dig and if they are busy attacking, they can't dig. I will look at making some local attacks besides the big Stalino operation.

The Stalino situation does not look good with defenders showing 96. Normally, I would try to encircle here, but I just don't have the time or the troops to pull it off. I sent tons of pioneers down here with some artillery, so hopefully it will be enough. I should get a good attack off with 17th army against a minor town with 2 HI left in it.

[Klydon]

Turn 22 start losses and OOB

Russians stand at 3.1 million losses. They have also lost a lot of aircraft, artillery and tanks.

Germans have recovered their tank strength some and it actually compares fairly well to the Russian. Of course, tank strength is about to take a beating.

The big thing that perhaps stands out to me is the strength of the Luftwaffe at this point. I need to do some minor organization over the next couple of turns and see about moving some of the air around in AGC to support 4th Army better. I have been careful to try to only use the air for big battles, etc. If nothing else, many of my losses have resulted from transport of fuel.

[Q-Ball]

You are right, the Orel/Kursk sector where 4th Army is looks the most vulnerable.

Just curious, why so few Fortified Zones? It's probably too late, but you could have built a line of Fort Zones behind 4th Army to dig some trenches, then just DISBAND them come the Blizzard.

Otherwise, it looks like he has enough troops in the OOB (4.8 mil at present) to make an effective Winter Offensive, if he uses them properly. Buckle up!

[Klydon]

I built a few to experiment with. (Just east of D and Z Town and some up by Rzhev, etc). Their construction value is bad and they have not done hardly anything in terms of digging in. (The two east of D and Z town have had some help from Rumanian cav units and they still have just level 2 and 1 forts and they were placed there before mud). I don't know why they are not doing a better job digging in and I also discovered my armaments issues as well, so I stopped building them. The ones I have down by the front will be disbanded just before blizzard. Not sure what I am going to do on the ones guarding my rail lines to the front, but they may bite it as well in order to avoid blizzard losses although most of those are level 2 for whatever reason now and I didn't even have them on refit.

Am I missing something about units not being within 50mp of the rail head not digging in as well? That would explain some of the issues with 4th army and also those 2 forts down south. The forts in the center were put up a bit later and in swamps, so they would be slower.

[Klydon]

Turn 22 is complete. Stalino fell after two attempts and I have mixed emotions on the results.

First, I attacked with 12 divisions. The first attack was with 9 infantry divisions from 11th army and a stack of motorized infantry (1 SS division). They were loaded with pioneers and I few just about every plane in range. The defenders were 3 rifle divisions in a level 3 fort. As can be seen on the first attack, I had the lower attack value, despite the fact I attacked from 4 hexes and had a pile of support units.

The defenders held, but saw their fort get reduced. Note that I had 4.5 times the men, 6 times the artillery and the defenders had no AFV's. In addition, I had 177 bombers show up. What happens when 150k men attack with over 2k artillery? All of 1k enemy casualties and somehow the defenders lose just 8 artillery.

On top of all this, I got lucky to get the result I got. (note huge jump in Axis final combat value and the Russian didn't change much meaning that the commander that the Russians had didn't make his die rolls most likely).

Needless to say, I was ticked off and not very happy as I think it is more of a repeat of the stuff I saw up by Moscow. Casting around on what to do next and hoping the fortification value decrease would help me a lot, I yank the troops out that could not make another deliberate attack and commit my other panzer forces.

The second battle, I had the advantage in raw combat value. The Russians actually had more artillery and men this time than the first time (support unit commitment I assume). Russians got a better bump to their final value while the Germans pretty much hit it all. Result is barely a German win and the Russians get tossed out, losing about 1/3 of their artillery and over 1/6th of their manpower, mostly due to routs I would guess.

I had well over 300 bombers and a pile of fighters involved in this. 1 fighter and 1 bomber was lost and I don't think anything was shot down by flak.

Combat results like this make me really nervous for the future. I don't know how much of my force was knocked out with the new rules on limiting attacking, but this game is favoring the defense more and more for both sides.

I consider myself very lucky that I managed to knock Stalino out because I could easily see it go most of the time that the city would have held. I will probably play around with it some from the saved games at some point, but just my feeling at the moment.

[Klydon]

Moving along to my next issue, I wish I had checked on this earlier, but I didn't. I was wondering why the hell my troops were not better fortified than they are now.

Any developer/tester types, I got a question.. whats up with the construction value on these two units?

The 17th infantry division didn't move, hasn't moved, etc. They are over 13k for manpower. A construction value of 12?

The infantry regiment strength is over 5K. Same deal.. a 4 construction value?

Is it any wonder I have crap for fortifications going into winter with values like that?

I got a bunch of units like that.

[Klydon]

Rest of turn 22 report:

I launched approximately 25 attacks across the front to create a "no man's land" between the lines and to help disrupt his troops. I was successful in 23 of the 25, routed 6 units and shattered another. In addition I did manage to knock off another 2 HI this turn in a small town. Total take on industry this turn with the fall of Stalino was 7 HI and 29 armaments.

I decided not to push it for Tula, despite the fact it isn't that far away and that he has all the industry there. I just don't have the forces position to try it and I think he has enough reserves set aside to deal with the attack. Even if I got there, after the debacles with Kharkov and Stalino, I don't see the city falling as it would likely take an entire army of infantry in reasonably good shape to even have a chance at it. Sounds negative I know, but right now I am not very happy with the state of the game for a variety of reasons. I know the staff is working on improving it, but after experiencing some issues first hand against an opponent, it is frustrating to invest this type of time into something and have this level of frustration.

I pulled I corps out of the line from 18th army, make a transfer of a non elite division out of the corps and pull the other elite corps out. They will head to Germany to become part of the OKH reserve. A division from 16h army is also withdrawn. I hope to have 6-8 elite divisions out and ready to go for 1942. 2nd Army takes over more of the front now that the pockets are liquidated and 18th army moves further south. Moscow is now facing off essentially against AGN for the most part and part of 9th army. I have a infantry corps attached to PG3 pulled out as well and headed to help 4th army, because I think that is where the sledgehammer is going to come. I may look to pull some more units out of 16th army unless Hfarrish shows up with some more troops in this area. There are not very many Russians up here and it isn't easy to get more in. I will probably play a bit of a cat and mouse game with him here. My concern/concentration is to get through December the best I can. IF I can keep a lot of the front relatively stable through December, I may be ok.

I attach both mountain divisions to a corps attached to OKH and send them up behind 4th army. Will take them a couple of turns to get to the front, but they should be in position to help backstop the 4th army in time for the first turn of blizzard. Both divisions are at 100% ToE, have 3 support units attached to each and are ready to go.

I hope to make OKH reserves around 2 elite level infantry corps and a elite panzer corps along with perhaps another panzer corps in addition to that. Should I desire offensive action in 1942, these units should make an excellent spearhead.

[Scook_99]

Well, the fortifications are what people wanted. Lots of people complained about the Russians digging in too fast too early, so level 1 and 2 forts are pretty easy, and then the curve gets steep. Forts work both ways.

[Klydon]

Supposedly the Germans are better diggers than the Russians. My point is not with construction values like that. Those construction values are pretty bad actually and are even or worse than Russian brigades and infantry divisions.

[Scook_99]

I haven't found the German diggers better in the least. Preparing for winter helps to use two units a hex, and moving as many construction units to your lower HQs. I believe you already know that, but just reinterating. I will pay attention closer to entrenching values now on too, because the Germans do have better values on a cursory look.

[Klydon]

Yeah, chalk another up to a learning experience. When the digging phase begins, make sure all the labor and pioneer battalions are assigned. Make sure you don't have them over assigned either because there is a limit on how fast something can dig in. More is a waste. Will certainly keep an eye on it for next time. In the mean time, I get to deal with the learning experience and it is gonna hurt. 

[Klydon]

Turn 23 complete. Not much really going on. I make some attacks in the center to brush him back. 16th army thins out the top of their line to put more regiments on digging. They are not in real good shape due to the distance from the railhead most likely, but I am working on that.

I send 1 panzer corps from PG1 north up to help with 6th army. 9th army has a panzer corps on the north side and the south side of their frontage. I need to work on shrinking it a bit, but they are not very well dug in for some reason (craptastic construction values for some reason). The center is firming up with several rows of level 3 fortifications. Thats good, because the Russians have a lot of troops around Moscow. The Rumanians resume digging on the line while 11th army goes into the line. I expect some heavy offensive action here as well just by the amount of Russian troops forming up.

You can see on the screen shot that there are a lot of Russian reserves forming up to get ready for the winter offensive. He will have quite a few cav corps along with other units (cav units circled in red), so it is going to be a long winter I am sure. Hopefully I can get out of December without things totally coming apart, but we shall see.

[Peltonx]

So you bagged 25 Hvy and 45 Arm. That seems a little low from my past exp, unless you had taken Moscow to put him in a manpower crunch. This will not effect you until next summer and the 42/43 winter, so you have to take out allot of units during the 42 summer.

I am hoping you have dug in at least 2 rows of forts. He will get through them, but 2 rows will atleast keep your losses low during December.

If you can keep him in your fort line during Dec then he have a gimpy winter O over-all.

His losses were light also, which is not a problem if you had taken out atleast 70 arm and 35 hvy or Moscow.

You can still pull off a win or draw. You need to survive the winter in ok shape and have a good summer.

Pelton

[Klydon]

Turn 24 End. With this, the German "summer" campaign comes to a close and Hfarrish has his moment to look to get some shots in. I am surprised he was not more aggressive during the snow turns, especially here towards the end. He maybe this turn knowing blizzard will be next turn and I will be unable to respond to any of his attacks or movement.

Below is a army by army account of what is going on, etc. Panzer forces backing the armies in question will be mentioned with the armies rather than their own entry.

The Finns basically hold and consolidate. I chased off whatever was coming around north of Lake Beloe. I thought about taking a crack at Cherepovets, but even if I won, I could not occupy it. Maybe later if I get some other divisions up in place. It isn't important either way really.

16th Army is not in very good shape ToE wise as they have spent mud in isolation. Fortifications here are thin, but the Russians are also thin. As long as he doesn't pressure me here, I will be content to dig a secondary line with broken down divisions. This does not look to be a major area the Russians plan on pushing simply because there is not a lot behind them. The rail head is moving up behind 16th army. I would have loved to have gotten to the Rybinsk Reservor and along the river, but it was not in the cards. If he wants to ignore this area for now, fine with me. The Panzer corps behind 16th army withdraws to VV and sends 1st panzer division to Leningrad where it will likely stay for the winter unless an emergency arises.

2nd Army launches a couple of spoiling attacks and routes two divisions. They are lightly dug in at the moment because of the swamp in the area, but hopefully that will hold up long enough for them to dig in deeper. This is a sensitive sector since my north south rail line goes pretty closely behind the front here. I have some divisions broken down continuing to dig. One panzer corps shares space at Torzhok and Kalinin as the area reserve.

18th army remains quiet and shifts some forces around to continue getting as many level 3 fortifications as they can. I expect a heavy attack against them, perhaps starting as early as this turn. They have some local reserves to help out. Their panzer corps is split between Rhzev and Vyazma.

9th Army launches several spoiling attacks against weak Russian stacks just to cause them some casualties/moral issues and also to flip territory. This stretch is not well fortified and won't be. I expect to get hammered here as well. There are some better fortifications a bit further back and some more being dug. There is a panzer corps in Kaluga for support.

The next section of line is covered by a corps of 3rd panzer infantry and 2nd panzer infantry. Fortifications are somewhat weak here. They do launch one attack to knock the Russians back, but overall they are somewhat vulnerable, although the Russians have not moved a lot of troops up. They took over a section of 4th Army line to help 4th Army out.

4th Army launches a couple of attacks with some help from its panzer corps and succeed in taking Orel, but do not occupy it. I thought about it really hard, but could not clean out enough Russian units to make sure I would not be surrounded there. I should have done this last turn as it was not held very strongly. Will still take the damage it does to his manpower and also the fact it helps further disrupt the rail net in the area. I have tried to disrupt his rail lines in the area as much as I can to make it harder for him to move troops around and cause logistics issues for him in the future. The army is not very well dug in despite being in position for awhile. I am a bit ticked off with the construction values, but this may have been a case of being isolated for so long over mud. Rail heads are coming in from the west, south and north to help with the supply situation. The two mountain divisions have arrived in the area with a corps HQ to help out, but I will likely see how things develop first. I do expect these guys to get hammered as it is an obvious weak spot. Unfortunately the panzer corps that helped with Orel was not able to make winter quarters in Bryansk, so they will get hit by the weather next turn. Hopefully it won't be too bad.

6th Army launches several spoiling attacks in its sector as it continues to dig. It was able to shorten the line up some with some of 17th army taking over where it was. While the army is low on ToE, they have had better luck digging and most of the line is level 3 forts with some depth. A panzer corps is in Sumy to help this sector of the line with a panzer division in a pop 4 town nearby. Another panzer corps sits in Kharkov.

17th Army did not do much this turn except move up to take some 6th Army territory and give some to 11th Army. They did launch an attack, but overall their ToE is not that hot and level 2 forts make them a target. I think the Russians will also try to attack here and force 11th Army to withdraw to the west.

11th Army and 2 panzer corps launch several spoiling attacks from Stalino south. The Russian units here were very weak and not very well dug in, so its not like they accomplished something major. The line to the south is not very well dug in, but the Russians are not showing much for troops in the area and the ones there are pretty beat up. 11th Army extended its line up north a bit to allow 17th army to creep further up. 1 panzer corps is in Stalino and the other one is in D and Z town.

The Rumanian infantry is back on the dig line behind 11th army and most of 17th army busy digging. This is my fall back line if it comes to that, but we shall see.

Rumanian cav has been sent to the rear and are spread all over the Ukraine on partisan duty. I have the SS cav unit up north doing the same thing. They may need some help and I will see about sending an extra infantry regiment or two up there. I really don't want to use my security regiments for that since they are barely over 2k and 1 per city is good for the garrison requirements. Running them around the country side will drop their manpower with resulting issues.

OKH reserves are now 5 elite moral infantry, 2 panzer divisions, Wiking, GD regiment, and a SS motorized unit.

I scrapped almost all of my fortifications as well to avoid blizzard damage.

[Klydon]

Here are the loss screens and production for Germany only with filter on.

Here are some blizzard tactics I am trying to adopt.

I have been giving this some thought and I am probably wrong on it, but if nothing else, it will be an interesting experiment.

I detached all my support units from their troops (except the two mountain divisions) and set everything to 0 support. Basically, I want to get all the support units out of Russia for now. If they wind up at the AG level, that is ok since they are safely in cities. My ultimate goal is to get them into OKH for the most part. There are obviously a huge number of support units which do have a lot of manpower in them in addition to a lot of armaments points tied up in artillery, etc. IF this helps reduce the attrition on them, then I think that is helpful long term. Obviously most units will be in the open during the winter and take damage accordingly. I also did the same thing with the Rumanian support units. I am interested in thoughts on this particular tactic.

I also tried to put every airfield/HQ unit, etc on a village in hopes that some of them get lucky and make their rolls to be protected on that given turn.

This will be my first winter vs another player, so I am more than a bit nervous. He is over 5 million and it is going to be a nasty winter. I am not dug in as well as I would like obviously but then again, I think most Germans feel this way.

[Peltonx]

Your lines look ok with reserves and his numbers aren't huge so you should be ok. Not like your going to get wiped off the map. Try not to use your armor until you have to, if they can hold up in a city the blizzard will have little effects on them.

Pelton