Idaho defends the Motherland

[Seminole]

One area you might look to pull more troops from is far north from Leningrad front. You should not care if the Finns decide to launch an attack and you can certainly use the troops elsewhere for the first part of the winter offensive.

I wouldn't abandon the Volkhov forts you have, but would instead try to place some brigades in the forts behind (not on the river) the Volkhov line so you can reinforce the Pskov axis with divisions. Also, I would rail two or three of the cavalry corps you have in the Kharkov sector to menace Pskov. He looks really weak there, and if they can get in the open you can get to the Pskov-Leningrad railway in a single week from where you're at.
Make him react to you.

[Fishbed]

Hum not sure threatening Pskov is of any interest considering Finland is a supply source if I am not mistaken, right?

You'll just make a new bulge that will be easily crushed comes Spring. I'd rather trade a Pskov offensive for steady but balanced progress everywhere else if I were him!

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

Hum not sure threatening Pskov is of any interest considering Finland is a supply source if I am not mistaken, right?

You'll just make a new bulge that will be easily crushed comes Spring. I'd rather trade a Pskov offensive for steady but balanced progress everywhere else if I were him!

Finland may or may not be hooked into the supply grid overland. It likely isn't at this point unless Scar ran the rail repair unit up there.

The point is to threaten the German rail communications line to Leningrad. It takes modest troops to pull off and makes the Germans either react to it or threated to have their overland rail communications to Leningrad cut because the lines through the Baltic are typically not fixed, especially at this point.
Part of what the Russians seek is to cause damage to the German army. That is hard to do if the Germans decide to run like they normally do. Pskov is a spot where the Germans would more likely make a stand because of what is at stake.

The Russians can easily discontinue their offensive in this area and pull back by Lake Ilmen.

[IdahoNYer]

Some good points guys. Bottom line I think is to put pressure on the Germans - and Klydon is right, there is little depth here for the Germans to withdraw and avoid loss. However, retaking or cutting supply/rail from Germany is probably beyond the scope of the Soviet Offensive, unless I pull considerable force out of the Voronezh Bulge attack, which is something I'm not going to do.

However, I just might put some of those replacement rifle divisions to hold a quiet part of the line by the Finns to free up some additional forces for the NW Front to add some pressure near Pskov.

[bigbaba]

scar seems to be a rookie when it comes to blizzard tactics as german.

instead of trying to hold everything ans ruin his units moral while boosting russian units moral he should give up some land. with a intact and high moral army he can recapture all this land in 1942 without any problem.

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

scar seems to be a rookie when it comes to blizzard tactics as german.

instead of trying to hold everything ans ruin his units moral while boosting russian units moral he should give up some land. with a intact and high moral army he can recapture all this land in 1942 without any problem.

This is a "role reversal" game. Idaho has played a lot as the German and Scar has played a lot as the Russian. They decided to switch for this game, so it has been interesting to watch both players adapt to a position they don't necessarily have a lot of experience with.

[janh]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

ORIGINAL: bigbaba
scar seems to be a rookie when it comes to blizzard tactics as german.

instead of trying to hold everything ans ruin his units moral while boosting russian units moral he should give up some land. with a intact and high moral army he can recapture all this land in 1942 without any problem.

This is a "role reversal" game. Idaho has played a lot as the German and Scar has played a lot as the Russian. They decided to switch for this game, so it has been interesting to watch both players adapt to a position they don't necessarily have a lot of experience with.

Indeed, in that both Scar-IdahoNYer AARs are very different games than most of the rest. When I read their reports I feel they play it out much more along the same lines, with many of the same uncertainties and caution, if they be the first to face the big war and had little hindsight or knowledge of what it once was. This gives very different feel from games, where advances and advantages are maximized using any rule or mechanic implemented, whether designed for such purpose by the devs or not.

Scar and IdahoNYer seem to play more for fun and a good experience than for winning at all costs. Much more enjoyable to follow, and bearing much more relevance to the conflict this game set out to recreate!

[IdahoNYer]

This gives very different feel from games, where advances and advantages are maximized using any rule or mechanic implemented, whether designed for such purpose by the devs or not.

Scar and IdahoNYer seem to play more for fun and a good experience than for winning at all costs. Much more enjoyable to follow, and bearing much more relevance to the conflict this game set out to recreate!

Thanks Janh - I think you're right on the money! Yeah, we've been playing each other in different PBEMs for a long, long time. Can't speak for Scar, but no matter what wargame I'm playing, I try to play as realistically/historically as I can - never try to squeeze something out of the rules. And try to avoid players who do that as well....

Heck, I'm a history major and retired military...its in the blood....

[IdahoNYer]

Turn 28; Dec 25, 1941......Blizzard

Industry moved: I have no idea.....forgot to note it and its been a while!

Attacks - 64 out of 73 attacks were successful.

Quick update - more of the same - Soviets continue to press the Germans across pretty much the entire front. German resistance thickens near Kharkov, but seems to break loose a bit on the north side of the Voronezh Bulge.

[bigbaba]

high attack number. not good for the german player because it produces a lot of guards units. i tested a "sir robin" blizzard defense in my last game and the result was that my opponent got only one!!! guards unit untill spring 42.

it's like pelton said:

with a low moral russian army and a intact german army one can regain the lost territory easily in 42 and overrun the manpower centers in russia twice what will cause even more damage to them.

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: bigbaba
it's like pelton said:

with a low moral russian army and a intact german army one can regain the lost territory easily in 42 and overrun the manpower centers in russia twice what will cause even more damage to them.

I agree. I'm beginning to think this ultimately need to be looked at as once the standard Axis response to first Blizzard is to Sir Robin and then 'guarantee' victory in 42 with little that the SU can do (especially the potential gamey absuse of giving up large Manpower Centres knowing when they're recaptured it will detriment the SU further) it will make the game a null and pointless endeavour for any SU player.

[Rodimstev]

Hi IdahoNyer,

thanks for this report.

i just want if it is not more usefull too concentrate our forces in center ou in the south ? in history, one of the reason of failure about the soviet winter counter attack was that this counter attack has been

too general.

in severals AAR, we show just this a general push toward the west. do is not another solutions?
kinds regards
Rodimstev

[janh]

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer
Heck, I'm a history major and retired military...its in the blood....

I did indeed get that impression from your first AAR. I can understand your and Scar's motivation for playing in your style well. After all we are interested in that conflict and period, and if you don't play a little along the doctrines or manner that shaped that history, it just detracts. Up to the point where you ply scify on a Russian map.

[janh]

ORIGINAL: Speedy
I agree. I'm beginning to think this ultimately need to be looked at as once the standard Axis response to first Blizzard is to Sir Robin and then 'guarantee' victory in 42 with little that the SU can do (especially the potential gamey absuse of giving up large Manpower Centres knowing when they're recaptured it will detriment the SU further) it will make the game a null and pointless endeavour for any SU player.

Probably the wrong place to discuss this, but you are probably right that this might be the most useful German counter to blizzard, and to hurt SHC twice. It is hard to blame Axis of this though, because also as a Soviet you are forced to choose wisely when to stand and fight (around Pskov to Leningrad, in the Valdai, the land-bridge, or whereever the situation favors defense, or renders withdrawals no option). Same as is quite futile to try to hold of AGS after Lvov wiped out the majority of means to do so, it is probably not wise as Axis to try to hold anything south of roughly the Bryansk-Tula line, in the open. With the pronounced swings of initiative and attackers advantages, it is quite logic that retreats are wise.

The trouble is only that there is no response to that as SHC. If fort building were not nerved in the patches, you could at least reduce for offensive work to a min and set up consecutive lines of level 3 and 4 forts instead. That is not making guards for heading towards Berlin or make for interesting battles, but at least would offer some chance to hold tight.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

ORIGINAL: bigbaba
it's like pelton said:

with a low moral russian army and a intact german army one can regain the lost territory easily in 42 and overrun the manpower centers in russia twice what will cause even more damage to them.

I agree. I'm beginning to think this ultimately need to be looked at as once the standard Axis response to first Blizzard is to Sir Robin and then 'guarantee' victory in 42 with little that the SU can do (especially the potential gamey absuse of giving up large Manpower Centres knowing when they're recaptured it will detriment the SU further) it will make the game a null and pointless endeavour for any SU player.

The "fix" would be to make city's worth something so both sides would fight over them. This would mean SHC manpower #s would have to be increased.

Right now the game is all about ball room dancing. Summer 41 SHC runs east, 41/42 winter GHC runs west and then as SHC figures out 42(few have) 42 SHC runs east. 1943 static and finally 1944-1945 both sides fight tooth and nail for land.

The game has gotten better and better as WitP has over the yrs. WitP was a mess for yrs before it is what it is now.

The wite game system is right, it just needs a few minor tweets and it would have the perfect feel we are all looking for.

I think its been clear now for 18 months what is needed, but for some reason 2by3 will not do it or can't code it.

1. A turn by turn VP system.
2. Tweek manpower output of SHC so it can take higher losses fighting forward.
3. Nerf the insane cav blizzard BS. Cav units are horses or lt tanks, not both as 2by3 has stated in past.

It is simply 100% not possible to lose less then 30 german divisions vs someone that knows how to exploit the current cav ruleset and this is 100% not historical. I lost 10 divisions running 2 hexes a turn vs Bobo and his losses were 3.5 million during 41. Its just not possible as GHC to fight forward during blizzard as it is 100% not possible to fight forward during 41 summer as SHC vs an average GHC player.

The player base is not stupid. We will not fight forward if the other side has an unhistorical unfar advantage.

41- 70
42- 60
43- 50
44- 45
45- 40

Something allong those lines would gave game less of a feel of ball room dancing and more like a cage death match.

They will get it right at some point.

[IdahoNYer]

Janh/Pelton -

I agree "something" needs to be done with the 41 campaign in the grand campaign to prevent both players doing a Sir Robin. Funny thing - the 41 scenario, with VPs for cities, doesn't seem to have that issue.....

Perhaps a simple solution is to leave the VPs in for 1941 - if a minimum isn't achieved by 1 Feb 42, by either side, its game over - you lost!

Both sides need some incentive to FIGHT in 1941. Too much incentive exists for running....

And now back to the PBEM AAR....

[IdahoNYer]

Turn 29; Jan 1, 1942.........Blizzard.

Industry moved: Rostov 15xArms.

Attacks for the turn:48 out of 57 attacks were successful.

Before I get into some detail on those attacks, a look at the info as we move into Jan 42.

The industry screen shot shows that a Soviet offensive is taking place! For the first time, a number of industrial areas have increased! Notably population - a number of key cities have been liberated - Orel, Bryansk, and Veliki Luki. A number of others, such as Smolensk, Gomel and Kharkov are threatened....

[IdahoNYer]

Forces available screen shot shows some great news for the Soviets - Germans have taken a big hit in manpower and guns, while the Soviets (although are taking some heavy losses), are still increasing in size. The lack of Soviet tank expansion can be attributed to some heavy tank losses during some failed attacks.

[IdahoNYer]

For losses - pretty much as expected. Heavy German losses, although many are in a disabled state. Biggest change from the Soviet standpoint is the vast reduction in Soviets taken prisoner!

[IdahoNYer]

Lastly, prior to the front line screens, is the destroyed units.....nice.....

Not a SINGLE Soviet maneuver unit was destroyed in the month.
Of course, we haven't destroyed any of the German ones either.....