Australia Invaded!! NY59Giants (A) vs Olorin (J)

[ny59giants]

He has left the whole of the Gilberts undeveloped. I need a place to launch a counterattack with my Marines. This will put pressure on him to defend the Marshalls. Long term, I hope to force him to think about building up the Marianas earlier than he was probably planning. I get a base closer to Japan to base my subs to start the economic war there in earnest in 43 after my torpedo dud rate goes down against his merchant fleet which now has to go to and from Australia.

Besides bringing in more and more troops to Australia and risk my CVs, I want to start him to have to worry about another theater that allows me to use something besides 4e bombers to hit back like I did at Noumea. Even though we have been playing for over 6 months, I'm still working up my psych profile on Nick. [;)]

[ny59giants]

I'll update later today after I get back from my Ethics class, but need some feedback. My invasions TFs have left Pearl and I have a TF with just AKs loaded with supplies to meet them. Is it best or does it make any difference to have the AKs embedded with the xAP/APs to unload supplies over the beach or have them in separate TFs?? Since most of the bases to be invaded are atolls, I want to get as much supply ashore as I can in the initial unloading phases before the shock attacks.

Thanks! [&o]

[BBfanboy]

Each TF unloads in the order: Troops, light equipment, heavy equipment, supplies. If you want supplies to hit the beach concurrent with the troops, keep them in a separate TF.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Each TF unloads in the order: Troops, light equipment, heavy equipment, supplies. If you want supplies to hit the beach concurrent with the troops, keep them in a separate TF.

Good info! [:)]

[CowboyRonin]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Each TF unloads in the order: Troops, light equipment, heavy equipment, supplies. If you want supplies to hit the beach concurrent with the troops, keep them in a separate TF.

Are you sure that's right? I know each ship unloads exactly as you've described, but I've never seen a task force stop unloading while one ship pushes through it's heavy equipment. I do know that you want to load troops and supplies separately, so that each ship only has one or the other, but I've been able to then merge those task forces together and have each ship unload separately to get troops, equipment and supplies ashore day 1. Plus, I haven't been able to assign a "real" admiral to a pure amphibious task force; I can assign them to a surface combat task force and then merge it with an amphibious task force (or 2), and have the "real" admiral stay.

[BBfanboy]

What you say sounds plausible too - each ship will unload X amount of stuff during each phase and will not stop just because other ships haven't finished the other stuff yet. If that is the case then other considerations for TF make-up come in to play: if the enemy has CD guns, do you need to keep them together so the CD guns get only one crack at the TF before the troops land? Do you keep them together so embedded cruisers/BBs suppress the enemy fire? Or do you split them up so the APs can depart as soon as they finish unloading while the larger xAKs full of tanks take their 3 days to unload?
Back to the supply question - I know the separate TF idea will work, I will have to try the embedded "supply only" xAKs to see if that works too.

[ny59giants]

July 30, 31, August 1, :
Invasion fleet leaves Pearl

Key: TT = Torpedo; bb = ground bombardment; c = casualties; b = base hits; s = supply hits; r = runway hits; p = port hits; AV = Assault Value; DC = Depth Charged; (*) = destroyed aircraft;

Subs:
Spearfish finds two working TT are enough to sink an AK off Horn Island.
I-16 gets two opportunities off Dunedin, NZ to put two TT into AD Black Hawk, sinking her.

CVs: Lexington and Saratoga show 2 days left on repairs from upgrades

India/Burma:[>:][>:]

China: - more air attacks than normal
Yenan - Up to 25 Sally hit the AF daily

the daily ground bb attacks continue at 85, 43 (2 hexes due west of Loyang on trail)

Ground combat at Wenchow (89,58) on 31st

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 73664 troops, 586 guns, 123 vehicles, Assault Value = 2322

Defending force 14135 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 470

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 1169

Allied adjusted defense: 814

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3735 casualties reported
Squads: 64 destroyed, 218 disabled
Non Combat: 14 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 19 disabled
Guns lost 19 (6 destroyed, 13 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
627 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 59 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
17th Ind.Mixed Brigade
35th Division
27th Division
15th Division
110th Division
36th Division

Defending units:
100th Chinese Corps
25th Group Army

This long by-passed and isolated base is able to hold up vs five divisions. Wow!!

Changsha - On 1st, 17 Sonia hit the AF = 5b, 1s, 26r;

Australia:

Ground combat at 61,150 (near Esperance) on 30th

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 3276 troops, 15 guns, 330 vehicles, Assault Value = 190

Defending force 2403 troops, 37 guns, 16 vehicles, Assault Value = 3

Japanese adjusted assault: 121

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 121 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 8 (1 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
3334 casualties reported
Squads: 44 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 144 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 42 (42 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 23 (23 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
2nd Tank Regiment
8th Tank Regiment
16th Engineer Regiment
7th Ind.Tank Brigade

Defending units:
4th Australian Division

The end comes to the 4th Div. [:(] The decision on whether to spend the PP to buy it back and rebuild will be decided in a few days after I see if Nick will try to take the rest of Australia.

Broken Hill - 3rd Motor Brigade is targeted by 26 Helen escorted in 37 Oscars = 25c on 31st; then 36 Tojo conduct an sweep; she is targeted again on the 1st by 37 Oscar escorting in 26 Helen = 92c; then the 641st Towed Tank Destroyer Battalion is attacked by 36 Helen = 74c;

Adelaide - 35 Tojo sweep the empty skies on the 1st;

South Pacific:
Suva - 20 Nell find 13 P-39s on CAP at night = 1r;

Central Pacific:
Pearl - The last of the transports is loaded and the invasion TFs will leave with CV Enterprise, ASW TF, Minelaying TF, Mine Sweeping TF, SC TF. All bound for Palmrya.

Notes:
New Month, New Toys - 20/mo of B-25C (nice to finally get a medium bomber at a steady rate for the rest of the war); 25/mo Vengeance (DB) for the British (will help with the eventual enemy SC TF in Burma; 4/mo Mitchell II (this will help with the 22 I still have in the pool due to Emergency Reinforcement) for my Australian Air Force as I already have two groups with them; 24/mo B-17F for only two months; 40/mo P-38F for two months; 13/mo P-70 Havoc for two months (Night Fighters); I hate this brief two month period of reinforcements for planning. The P-38s will go to India to replace a P-40E group giving me two groups of P-38E and one of P-38F. In a few weeks they will go head to head with Mr Tojo in some sweep missions. [;)]

FUEL - Most TK/AOs have been at San Fran for upgrades, now they form up their TF after loading fuel. As an Allied player, I want to get as much as possible away from the USA.

1) I have just set up a CS Convoy with 12x T2-SE-A2 TKs between San Fran and Pearl. They carry 13915 fuel each, spd 16, and have relatively low Endurance for your TKs. They will bring almost 167k in fuel each time. Time to start stockpiling fuel at Pearl.

2) Headed for NZ is a TF with 283k in fuel. The TF has
8x Shell Type A TKs with 12650/each, spd 16;
7x Empire L Cargo with 4350/ea, spd 17;
9x Euro L Cargo with 4340/ea, spd 17;
3x C3-E Cargo with 3275/ea, spd 17;
3x C@-T Cargo with 3100/ea, sdp 16;
2x DD and 3x APD as escorts;
This is one of my fast Tanker TF that uses those xAKs that have liquid capacity. They can get all the way to NZ and should be able to make it almost back to USA without needing to refuel. If she needs fuel, she will stop at either Vava'u or Christmas Island to do a "Minimal Refuel." As an Allied player, if you are not using this option when it come to TFs moving fuel (I use it also for my other TFs) then you are wasting fuel, IMO. This option gives the TF enough to reach its destination (San Fran in this case) with only 10% extra. Most of my TF get back this way.

3) Headed for Christmas and Canton is a TF with 234k in fuel. The TF has
4x T2-SE-A1 TKs with 14054/ea, spd 14
3x BP Type D TKs with 10800/ea, spd 14;
13x Federal Tpye E TKs with 9430/ea, spd 14;
4x Euro K Cargo with 3000/ea, spd 14
3x APD as escorts (I use my Clemson APDs as escorts until I get enough of others to take over).
This is my medium speed TF. I divide mine according to speed - 16 or 17 is fast, 14 is medium, and anything slower than 14 is slow. The slow TF will be formed in a few days and I will let you know what goes in it. I also will have a slow AO based Replenishment TF.

4) Headed for Christmas is my Fast AOs. 6x Cimarron AOs with 14660/ea and spd 18 along with 3x APD and a DD. This TF is for my CVs and if needed, my SC TF.

I will form some small supply only Cargo TFs to go with my Amphib TFs for each of the four bases I will be invading in the next few weeks. Thanks for the feedback here. [8D]

[CowboyRonin]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

What you say sounds plausible too - each ship will unload X amount of stuff during each phase and will not stop just because other ships haven't finished the other stuff yet. If that is the case then other considerations for TF make-up come in to play: if the enemy has CD guns, do you need to keep them together so the CD guns get only one crack at the TF before the troops land? Do you keep them together so embedded cruisers/BBs suppress the enemy fire? Or do you split them up so the APs can depart as soon as they finish unloading while the larger xAKs full of tanks take their 3 days to unload?
Back to the supply question - I know the separate TF idea will work, I will have to try the embedded "supply only" xAKs to see if that works too.

This was actually the historical practice - mount units, supplies and covering forces separately, sail to a rendezvous point near the target, go in as one big TF (so you don't have a speed or ops oops and have someone go in early or late), then split out empty transports as they emptied out. It works pretty well in-game too [:)]

[Q-Ball]

It doesn't matter if supply ships are in the same, or separate TF from invasion forces, as far as unloading goes. BBfanboy is right in the sequence in which ships unload, but all TF's unload at the same rate.

Personally, I embed the supply ships. That means you have to create separate TFs when you are loading, so the supply ships ONLY load supplies.

[witpqs]

Remember that after they themselves unload, ships with some sort of amphibious ability (like APA, AKA, AP, AK, LST, LCI, etc. etc.) help other ship in the same TF to unload. This simulates them using their organic landing craft (or maybe for smaller vessels the ship itself) to go ferry cargo for the ships still unloading.

So, what and when to break out is something to consider based on the circumstances.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Remember that after they themselves unload, ships with some sort of amphibious ability (like APA, AKA, AP, AK, LST, LCI, etc. etc.) help other ship in the same TF to unload. This simulates them using their organic landing craft (or maybe for smaller vessels the ship itself) to go ferry cargo for the ships still unloading.

So, what and when to break out is something to consider based on the circumstances.

I did not know that! Once again the depth of things one can learn about this game is amazing. Thanks witpqs!

[ny59giants]

I have 31 xAKs at Palmrya with 4800 supply each that I will divide up and embed in the four Amphib TFs. They loaded at San Fran with just supply. I did not load the Amphib TFs with any extra supplies. I would rather risk leaving some xAKs at the base to unload the supplies and get damaged/sunk that my xAP/APs. As soon as the xAP/APs are empty they will leave for safer waters, especially those that convert to APAs in early 43.

[ctangus]

I've been lurking for a bit & am enjoying your AAR.

I'm relatively new to AE (not WITP) but I have noticed that you can't change a fully-loaded transport TF into an amphib TF. Haven't tried embedding fully-loaded transports into amphib TFs but you might not be able to. Do you have time to unload & re-load them as amphibs? Not sure if it would be an issue but it might be.

Love the idea of your early Gilbert's invasion BTW. I suspect your opponent may ultimately regret committing so much force as he is to Australia.

[ny59giants]

I'm relatively new to AE (not WITP) but I have noticed that you can't change a fully-loaded transport TF into an amphib TF. Haven't tried embedding fully-loaded transports into amphib TFs but you might not be able to. Do you have time to unload & re-load them as amphibs? Not sure if it would be an issue but it might be.

My choices from a Cargo TF is to Transport or Escort TF. Thankfully, I'm dock at Palmyra so I can disband into the port and then form an Amphib TF. :earned that lesson long ago. [;)]

Glad to see your posting in my AAR. Hopefully, I can help other Allied players with at least the logistical battle that must be fought and won.

OT - I see your from Boston. I was born in Burlington, VT but am a "Damn Yankee" lost in the South for 20 plus years. [:D]

[ny59giants]

August 2, 3, 4 :
Invasion fleet approaching Palmyra!!
Mr Tojo is not the uber-fighter [;)]
Noumea hit again [:D]

Key: TT = Torpedo; bb = ground bombardment; c = casualties; b = base hits; s = supply hits; r = runway hits; p = port hits; AV = Assault Value; DC = Depth Charged; (*) = destroyed aircraft;

Subs: No successful attacks.

CVs: Lexington and Saratoga have completed repairs and leave for Palmyra.

India/Burma:[>:][>:]

China: - more air attacks than normal
Yenan - Up to 25 Sally hit the AF daily

the daily ground bb attacks continue at 85, 43 (2 hexes due west of Loyang on trail)

Changsha -
2nd - 17 Sonia hit the AF = 14b, 3s, 26r;
3rd - 17 Sonia hit the AF again = 1b, 3s, 11r;
4th - Chinese fighters moved in

Sian -
3rd - 37(2) Ann, 5 Lily, 9 Sonia hit the AF = 8b, 1s, 18r; 20(1) Lily = 6b, 2s, 11r;
4th - Chinese fighters moved in

Ground combat at Wenchow (89,58) on 3rd

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 71057 troops, 581 guns, 123 vehicles, Assault Value = 2113

Defending force 13746 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 421

Japanese adjusted assault: 640

Allied adjusted defense: 1366

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3444 casualties reported
Squads: 62 destroyed, 287 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 35 disabled
Engineers: 10 destroyed, 25 disabled
Guns lost 26 (6 destroyed, 20 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (3 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
273 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
35th Division
110th Division
15th Division
27th Division
17th Ind.Mixed Brigade
36th Division

Defending units:
100th Chinese Corps
25th Group Army

Still standing tall. [;)]

Wenchow -
4th - 23 Ann, 21 Lily, 15 Sonia hit the AF = 5b, 2s, 11r;

Australia:
Roto -
2nd - 40 Tojo come in at 25k to find 25(1) P-40s on CAP; 62(4) Helen come in @ 6k and flak takes a toll = 4b, 2s, 16r;
3rd - 32(7) Tojo sweep in and find a stronger CAP than yesterday - 6(1) Spitfire Vc Trop, 20(1) P-39s, 16(1) P-40s [:D]; 3(1) Tojo vs 2 Spitfire, 7 P-39s, 3 P-40s;
4th - 37(4) Tojo sweep in to find my mixed CAP of 15(1) Spitfire, 20 P-39s, 35(1) P-40s; a second sweep of 37(2) Tojo still find a large CAP of 11 Spitfire, 13(1) P-39s, 23(2);

Broken Hill - the empty base falls on 2nd
4th - He has now moved in over 70 fighters; 32 Tojo are ordered to sweep my troops one hex to SE; this is followed by 19 Helen attacking the 5th Aussie Div = 46c; 6th Aus Cav Brigade is then targeted by 37 Oscar with 36(1) Helen = 41c; x 36

Ground combat at 80,161 (near Broken Hill) on 4th

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 546 troops, 0 guns, 123 vehicles, Assault Value = 200

Defending force 43264 troops, 762 guns, 993 vehicles, Assault Value = 1278

Japanese adjusted assault: 0

Allied adjusted defense: 887

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 99

Combat modifiers
Defender: experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 99 (76 destroyed, 23 disabled) OUCH!! [:D]
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
5th Tank Regiment
6th Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
1st Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
5th Guards Cav Regiment

Defending units:
Americal Infantry Division
762nd Tank Battalion
6th Australian Division
3rd Motor Brigade
763rd Tank Battalion
2/5th Armoured Regiment
2/4th Armoured Regiment
6th Aus Cav Brigade
7th RAAF Base Force
30th Base Group
202nd Coast AA Regiment
134th Field Artillery Battalion
Northern Territory Corps
208th Coast AA Regiment
204th Coast AA Regiment
109th Anti Tank Regiment
2nd US Naval Construction Battalion

I've learned my lesson about trying to retreat in Move Mode when this close to his large stacks. Especially, when I know he likes to send out his tanks to attack ahead of the infantry.

Ground combat at 62,150 (near Esperance) on 4th

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 768 troops, 0 guns, 138 vehicles, Assault Value = 76

Defending force 287 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 76

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 76 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(-), disruption(-), fatigue(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
289 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 22 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
8th Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment

Defending units:
12th RAAF Base Force

The last of the retreating forces from western Australia is destroyed. [:(]

South Pacific:
Suva -
3rd - Two SC TFs are spotted between here and Noumea, but still move than a days move away; in response I move in 3 DB groups (SBD-1, SBD-2, & SB2U) and the P-39s are armed with drop tanks with everybody set for 6 hexes max @ 12k; 100 B-17s & LB-30s are ordered to hit the port of Noumea from 10k;
4th - One of the SC TF (4 ships) is now 9 hexes to west of base; the other SC TF of 10 ships is now 11 hexes to SW @ 126, 169;

Tongatapu - After the 4th turn, I move the SBD-1 (16 planes) from Suva here to join the 12 PBY-5;

Vava'u - After 4th turn, the recently convert SB2U to Avenger TBs moves from Aukland to here (somewhat trained in NavT, but not as good as I like); two groups of A-24 Banshee move from Pago Pago and set to 8 hexes for all three; ships are formed in an Escort TF and ordered east; subs head west

Wellington - After 4th turn, a SC TF (2x "R" Class BBs, 2 CLs, 7 DDs) are ordered to head NE towards Vava'u;

Noumea -
4th -

Morning Air attack on Noumea , at 115,160

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 72 Nice to see them go in as one big group!!
LB-30 Liberator x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CM Okinoshima, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
AKE Tokiwa Maru, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
AD Shintoku Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS I-7, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
PB Shinko Maru #5, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Sinko Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AS Rio de Janiero Maru, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
AGP Kofuku Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Ikunta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AG Mamiya, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Port hits 3
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 2

This is his second lesson....don't leave ships disbanded in a port within 4e bomber range of a size 5 AF or larger (in my other game as Japan, I learned this at Rabaul by B-24s from Cooktown). [:D] 75 of 100 went in this strike.

Morning Air attack on Noumea , at 115,160

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 6 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12

Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 4

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
PB Sinko Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Ikunta Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
AD Shintoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
ACM Shonan Maru #8, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
CM Okinoshima, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AGP Kofuku Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Port hits 3

So much for all those support ships stationed here.

Central Pacific:
Palmrya - Gilbert invasion ships except for my 2 CVs leaving Pearl this turn and the 2nd Marine Div on transports to the east of Canton should arrive on 5th and then orders to head west will be given after some re-organization.

Notes:
A2A Losses on 3rd = 20J & 8A with 17 Tojo shot down; on 4th = 25J & 12A with 21 Tojo lost [:)]

1 August 42 - Note to Japanese players unfamiliar with Allied OOB. This is when most of the American bomber groups re-size. Those of my B-17s and other 4e bomber groups go from 8 to 12. The other bomber groups mainly go to 16.

[JocMeister]

Nice work on the Tojos! [:)]

What caused the mayhem? The spitfires?

[BBfanboy]

And a great job on those support ships!
I think Okinoshima is the largest CM he has [or had]. Hopefully it carried a full load of mines.
Japan can replace all those support ships since there are many xAKs that can be converted, but it will cost them Naval Shipyard points and time!
I especially like to see enemy ARs go down - any major engineering problems have to go far away to be fixed.

[ny59giants]

Out of all the 4e bombers sent to Noumea (100 ordered to), I only have 2 not ready for the next day. So back they will go as he still has ships in the port.

Tojo - I think it comes down to having more aircraft in the air than him (most combats have me with greater than 1:1 odds) PLUS having some pilots that have spent significant time training up in Air and Straf skills (raises Defense skill). The P-40s and Spit were set @ 25k while the P-39s were set @ 10k.

[SuluSea]

Very nice AAR you have going here Micheal! [:)] Glad to see the G men are doing well. [:)]

[ny59giants]

Eddie - My Giants haven't looked to good since the 49ers game, but a win is a win. This Sunday's game vs the Steelers will be tough.

It looks like my opponent, Olorin, may have not understood that just moving a unit below the Brisbane line would trigger Emergency Reinforcements. I told him he had triggered them weeks ago. So, I now expect a concentrated effort to take most of the rest of southern Australia in the next few days.

First counter-invasion is about 6 or 7 days away.