IdahoNYer vs LST (J AAR): GAME OVER!

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Great news for the empire!

will make the game a lot more interesting

[Lowpe]

Never have I sent a turn with more frightened anticipation than this one...

The Joy and Agony of a JFB...every potential CV clash is like this.[;)]

Well done. Lots of lessons to be learned in this three day fight in Aug of 1943.

[Bif1961]

He rushed in and got his nose broke, you must have had 9-10 Fleet carries to pull off a 505 plane coordinated strike. That means at this point in the war you must have had near parity with his fleet. Sounds like you plan to exploit your current advantage, which makes sense since the only real chance you have is to sunk his carriers, not simply to damage them and let them return later. If you next days turn results in sinking half of his carrier fleet then his invasion fleet is horribly exposed.

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Your main strike was amazingly well coordinated, more than 550 planes! [X(] Very impressive ... and effective as well.

Since you now control the seas in that area ... for a while ... will you consider a counter-invasion anywhere? Or are there no troops for it?

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

He rushed in and got his nose broke, you must have had 9-10 Fleet carries to pull off a 505 plane coordinated strike. That means at this point in the war you must have had near parity with his fleet. Sounds like you plan to exploit your current advantage, which makes sense since the only real chance you have is to sunk his carriers, not simply to damage them and let them return later. If you next days turn results in sinking half of his carrier fleet then his invasion fleet is horribly exposed.

Yes, coordination of the first strike was perfect.

11 CVs and one CVL in two TFs involved, that are all available fleet carriers.

Ryujo, Shoho and Zuiho have been sunk by subs in 1942, Hiyo is still under repair and the CVEs are either in the Koepang- Ambon area or escorting tanker convoys.

I have resized the air groups to be fighter-heavy. but with small bomber groups and heavy bomber losses I now have little offensive power left. No Allied carriers has been sunk yet, and Allied damage control can do wonders. I plan to go all-out against the cripples, but there are two unhurt Allied carriers and my rush may backfire. No counter-invasion planned for lack of suitable ground forces.

May take a while, my opponent wrote that he's pretty depressed and needs some time off.


Here is a pic of the air groups and TF composition before the battle:

[adarbrauner]

May take a while, my opponent wrote that he's pretty depressed and needs some time off.

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[jwolf]

May take a while, my opponent wrote that he's pretty depressed and needs some time off.

This may be a sign that the Allied damage control might not be working quite as wonderfully as you feared.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I am checking the forum at least twice every day for the next Ed's AAR update, [:D] [:-]

[LargeSlowTarget]

Got a message from Ed. He has re-checked the orders he has given for the disaster turn and has found three issues.

Three of his carrier squadrons have wrong, unintended settings. He explained that the Hellcat squadron of CVL Independence and the Martlet squadron of CV Victorious have been left on LRCAP over Trinkat, when they should have been set to local CAP / escort.

More importantly, he found that the SBD squadron on Enterprise, which was the designated naval search unit, was set by accident to 100ft. This has probably reduced the effectiveness of his naval search to a point that the DL on my carriers was very low - and as we know, DL is everything.

Ed has requested a redo of the turn with orders changed only for the three squadrons concerned.

I'm okay with that, since those settings seem to be genuine mistakes and not merely bad choices.

We have already done a redo before upon my request, when I forgot to set a stand-off range for a group of CVEs set to follow a bombardment TF - the CVEs followed unintentionally into the base hex and a surface SAG ambush.

So this is my occasion to return the favor.

I expect less lopsided results in the redo, with results both sides can live with.

Should the redo end in a disaster for Japan this time, we have agreed to do a third redo with both sides gentlemanly withdrawing all assets in order to avoid a carrier clash.

The game is such a time investment that it would be a shame to rage-quit over the results of one turn.

Awaiting Ed's redo.

[LargeSlowTarget]

[was intended as placeholder for redo AAR but it's actually better to continue after the reader comments]

[LargeSlowTarget]

[was intended as placeholder for redo AAR but it's actually better to continue after the reader comments]

[adarbrauner]

[:(]

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

[:(]

Understandable, but if the two players agree it's not for us to argue otherwise.

[adarbrauner]

he'll end up winnig this turn anyway

[Bif1961]

I remember when Nagumo raged quit after Midway. My point was in war mistakes are made and it wasn't some fluky game engine glitch that caused the results you achieved. However if you agree to a do over you are a better man than me. I hope the results aren't an Allied victory because you deserve your hard won victory.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

[:(]

if the two players agree it's not for us to argue otherwise.

+1

and there was a precedent so really nothing more to say about it

[Jorge_Stanbury]

"we have agreed to do a third redo with both sides gentlemanly withdrawing all assets in order to avoid a carrier clash. "

If you get into the 3rd redo, I think you have the right to request an operational pause of at least some weeks in that area

[Lowpe]

I wonder what impact 100' naval search really had? The planes would have been shot down by flak at an impressive number.

Do you recall from the replay if that was the case?

If I recall correctly there was heavy storms in the Allied hex...redoing the turn will change the weather...if you get better weather for your torpedo planes...the Allies may rue the day he asked for a redo.

Always nice to give and take.[&o]

[LargeSlowTarget]

Ok, got the turn this morning and watched the replay at work - if my boss would know why I'm often the first one to arrive at the office... [;)]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 28, 43
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Night Time Surface Combat, near Trinkat at 44,64, Range 11,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
Seagull V: 2 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Takao, Shell hits 2
CA Atago, Shell hits 3
CA Myoko, Shell hits 2
CA Mogami, Shell hits 2
CA Mikuma
DD Yugumo, Shell hits 1
DD Akigumo
DD Takanami
DD Hayanami
DD Kiyonami
DD Hamanami, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Asashimo
DD Asashio, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Oshio
DD Michishio

Allied Ships
CA Shropshire, Shell hits 14, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CA Sussex, Shell hits 19, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 1
CL Kenya, Shell hits 1
CL Newcastle, Shell hits 1
DD Anthony
DD Monssen, Shell hits 1
DD Carmick
DD Redoubt
DD Roebuck, Shell hits 3, on fire
DMS Wasmuth, Shell hits 5, and is sunk

Same results as before.

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 48,69

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 77
A6M5b Zero x 15
A6M5c Zero x 23

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 72
SBD-5 Dauntless x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
SBD-5 Dauntless: 13 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko

Different strike package - no TBFs.

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Medan at 46,76

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-61-Ib Tony x 9

Allied aircraft
SBD-5 Dauntless x 33
TBF-1 Avenger x 18

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 5 destroyed
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
TK Matsumoto Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
TK Nissan Maru, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
PB Hayakafuku Maru, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
TK Azuma Maru #2, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
TK Moji Maru, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Same strike package, but better results for Ed. Only lost 2 TKs in the first run.

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 48,69

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 44
A6M5b Zero x 12
A6M5c Zero x 17

Allied aircraft
TBF-1 Avenger x 15

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBF-1 Avenger: 8 destroyed

This strike against the retiring cruiser SAG did not happen at all in the first run.

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sabang at 43,69

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 118 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 126
A6M5b Zero x 34
A6M5c Zero x 58
B6N1 Jill x 87
B6N2 Jill x 54
D4Y1 Judy x 114
D4Y3 Judy x 30
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 9

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 38
F4F-4 Wildcat x 23
F6F-3 Hellcat x 101

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
B6N1 Jill: 11 destroyed, 15 damaged
B6N1 Jill: 7 destroyed by flak
B6N2 Jill: 8 destroyed, 9 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 4 destroyed by flak
D4Y1 Judy: 12 destroyed, 25 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 7 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
BB Massachusetts
CL Cleveland
BB Indiana, Bomb hits 2
CV Hornet
CV Victorious, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CV Wasp, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
BB South Dakota, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1
CV Long Island II, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CV Yorktown
CV Saratoga
CV Enterprise
DD Reid
CVL Independence
DD Pringle
CA Chester
CL Montpelier
DD Downes
DD Buchanan

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Wasp
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Victorious

Alpha strike - only 503 carrier planes involved this time but still perfect coordination. 12 hits instead of 15 total in the first run, with different distribution and targets - only 3 carriers disabled instead of 4 in the first run [just realize my math was off again when calculating no. of planes per hit in my post farther up - only counted the hits that really count - on CVs].

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 46,69

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 91
A6M5b Zero x 28
A6M5c Zero x 42
N1K1-J George x 2
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 14

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 55
SBD-3 Dauntless x 36
SBD-5 Dauntless x 38
TBF-1 Avenger x 60

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 2 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 8 destroyed, 5 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed by flak
SBD-5 Dauntless: 8 destroyed, 10 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 21 destroyed, 8 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Taiho
CV Kaga
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 1
CV Hiryu
CV Soryu
CV Junyo
CV Amagi
CV Unryu
CVL Ryuho
CV Shokaku
CV Katsuragi
CA Tone
BB Nagato, Torpedo hits 1

163 Allied planes in the first run, 65 destroyed an no hits.

Here 189 Allied planes, 42 destroyed and 2 hits.

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sabang at 43,69

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 25 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2 Jill x 15
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 18

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 37
F4F-4 Wildcat x 22
F6F-3 Hellcat x 96

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2 Jill: 8 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet IV: 1 destroyed

This strike did not happen in the first run.

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 46,69

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 76
A6M5b Zero x 24
A6M5c Zero x 29
N1K1-J George x 2
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 11

Allied aircraft
SBD-5 Dauntless x 25

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 11 destroyed

Only one unescorted Allied strike in the afternoon this time.

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 29, 43

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Sub attack near Phuket at 47,69

Japanese Ships
CV Akagi
BB Mutsu
CA Tone
CL Noshiro
CLAA Tatsuta
DD Amatsukaze
DD Niizuki
DD Hagikaze
DD Arashi
DD Nowaki
DD Hamakaze

Allied Ships
SS Apogon

SS Apogon launches 6 torpedoes at CV Akagi

Heart-stopping moment! This attack did not happen in the first run. Akagi hit by one dud.

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Trinkat at 44,64

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 122
A6M5b Zero x 20
A6M5c Zero x 56
B6N1 Jill x 42
D4Y1 Judy x 56

Allied aircraft
FM-1 Wildcat x 21
F6F-3 Hellcat x 31

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 6 destroyed
B6N1 Jill: 2 destroyed, 9 damaged
B6N1 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y1 Judy: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
FM-1 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Santee, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CVE Corregidor
CLAA Van Heemskerck
LSI(L) Kanimlba
CL Achilles
DD Ringgold, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Relentless, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Arunta
CL De Ruyter
DD Balch

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Santee
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Relentless

This strike did not happen at all in the first run. It's actually what I was aiming for, hitting the Amphib forces while avoiding the Allied fleet carriers. Now, since I did not evade the Allied carriers, I would have preferred this strike being directed at the Death Star, not the Amphib. But well.

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Trinkat at 44,64

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 10
A6M5b Zero x 15
B6N2 Jill x 12
D4Y1 Judy x 6

Allied aircraft
FM-1 Wildcat x 7
F6F-3 Hellcat x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 2 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 4 destroyed
D4Y1 Judy: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-1 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Santee, heavy fires
CVE Corregidor

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Santee

Second strike on Amphib TF - same comment as above.


Unlike the first run, no morning attacks of the Allies against my carriers!

The main forces exchanged strikes in the afternoon as before, with the Allies once again holding the short end of the stick.

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sabang at 43,69

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 93
A6M5b Zero x 12
A6M5c Zero x 17
B6N1 Jill x 41
B6N2 Jill x 10
D4Y1 Judy x 60
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 10

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 35
F4F-4 Wildcat x 21
F6F-3 Hellcat x 76

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 2 destroyed
B6N1 Jill: 18 destroyed, 6 damaged
B6N1 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
B6N2 Jill: 6 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y1 Judy: 21 destroyed, 6 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 9 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CV Hornet
CA Wichita
BB Massachusetts
CV Saratoga
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 1
BB Indiana
CV Yorktown

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sabang at 42,70

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 28
A6M5b Zero x 20
A6M5c Zero x 30
B6N1 Jill x 13
B6N2 Jill x 25
D4Y1 Judy x 38
D4Y3 Judy x 16

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed
B6N1 Jill: 4 damaged
B6N1 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
B6N2 Jill: 9 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y1 Judy: 7 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 4 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 4 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 4 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Wasp, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Long Island II, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Independence, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CA New Orleans
BB South Dakota, Bomb hits 2
CV Victorious, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Montpelier
DD Foote
DD Laffey, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Honolulu

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 46,69

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 80
A6M5b Zero x 27
A6M5c Zero x 36
N1K1-J George x 2
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 17

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 23
SBD-3 Dauntless x 13
SBD-5 Dauntless x 23
TBF-1 Avenger x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 5 destroyed
SBD-5 Dauntless: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 9 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CV Katsuragi

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 46,69

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 71
A6M5b Zero x 19
A6M5c Zero x 34
N1K1-J George x 2
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 7

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 14
TBF-1 Avenger x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 3 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
TBF-1 Avenger: 2 destroyed

Recap:

CV Saratoga - operational

CV Hornet - operational

CV Yorktown - operational

CV Enterprise - most likely still able to perfom flight ops
Torpedo hits 1

CVL Independence - probably not able to perfom flight ops
Bomb hits 2
on fire

CV Long Island II - probably not able to perfom flight ops
Bomb hits 2
Torpedo hits 1
on fire

CV Wasp - not operational, hope she will be eaten by the flames
Bomb hits 3
heavy fires
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Wasp

CVE Santee - not operational, but it's a big CVE so might survive
Bomb hits 2
heavy fires
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Santee

CV Victorious - probably toast
Bomb hits 6
heavy fires
heavy damage
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Victorious

BB South Dakota
Bomb hits 4
Torpedo hits 1

BB Indiana
Bomb hits 2


On my side:

CV Akagi
Bomb hits 1

BB Nagato
Torpedo hits 1



So, slightly less one-sided and slightly less damaging for the Allies, but still a drubbing.

I can live with the results and I hope Ed will accept them as well - with orders and setting revised, there is no arguing with the weather and the dices.

[adarbrauner]

La la la lalalalala!

[jwolf]

Just 3 days later and that US sub would have had better torpedoes. Well timed! [;)]