Lambs to the slaughter (Lowpe (J) vs Jocke; BillBrown (A)) Finished

[Lowpe]

Another day, artillery lands at Whittier for taking Anchorage.

A Dutch sub puts a torpedo into an xAP on their way to Soerabaja and the invasion of Darwin. She doesn't sink...

Loading up to invade Annette...

More grinding attacks in China along the Ankang road.

Sweeps don't find anyone...

[Lowpe]

Tomorrow Coal Harbor passes runway size 2, and the sweeps of North America will begin. Will Jocke defend?

[witpqs]

He must defend the aircraft factories to prevent destruction. Damage he can repair. Of course strategic points will be lost in either case.

[Lowpe]

Manpower is pretty low at Seattle, the chance of fire destroying the factories is pretty minimal.

But is Jocke stands and fights it is a pretty deft move...too bad I couldn't be closer.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Manpower is pretty low at Seattle, the chance of fire destroying the factories is pretty minimal.

But is Jocke stands and fights it is a pretty deft move...too bad I couldn't be closer.

Manpower 8 is plenty, IMO.

I'm curious and may set up a test bed finally. First ever.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I actually have thought of Russia, especially if AV looms near for 43 or 44. I think it would take six months to cut Soviets in half and destroy and conquer everything to the south. Without AV, I don't think it makes sense to attack Russia...but if AV looms it is a solid gamble.

I wasn't think AV, but rather just not having that front active the rest of the game. If you push him off the board, his LCU's can come in, but none of his AC until he gets a base on map. No AC, you can always defeat him. You would be able to put ~2400 AV there and then free up all the rest. It isn't clear to me that the allies can win if you don't have SOV as a threat in the game. that extra ~4000AV is a big difference, not mention the economic benefit of holding CHina/SOV in the end game.

[Lowpe]

I have had a sentai on port attack for quite a while; mostly they get 1-2 hits on Manila, but I figured he has been using it for submarines.

Today, we nail two submarines there.

Tomorrow the sweeps begin; I wonder if he will try a bombing run against Coal Harbor?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I actually have thought of Russia, especially if AV looms near for 43 or 44. I think it would take six months to cut Soviets in half and destroy and conquer everything to the south. Without AV, I don't think it makes sense to attack Russia...but if AV looms it is a solid gamble.

I wasn't think AV, but rather just not having that front active the rest of the game. If you push him off the board, his LCU's can come in, but none of his AC until he gets a base on map. No AC, you can always defeat him. You would be able to put ~2400 AV there and then free up all the rest. It isn't clear to me that the allies can win if you don't have SOV as a threat in the game. that extra ~4000AV is a big difference, not mention the economic benefit of holding CHina/SOV in the end game.

A bit of a reality check. In my Feb 1942 DBB game, the Sovs have 31 infantry divisions on the board. Dozens more brigades and regiments. One tank division and 13 tank brigades, plus smaller units. Artillery? Oh, my. I think there may be an over-focus on air power here.

[Lowpe]

Just a bit of a reality check![:)]

Radar provided the framework for an attack on Soviets in 42...do spectacular everywhere, and then cut them in half and destroy the Vlad half. By no means was is it easy, but then he decided not to pursue the Soviets, but instead dug in with the Soviets coming roaring back in.

That was Taming the Bear...which didn't quite work out![:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Just a bit of a reality check![:)]

Radar provided the framework for an attack on Soviets in 42...do spectacular everywhere, and then cut them in half and destroy the Vlad half. By no means was is it easy, but then he decided not to pursue the Soviets, but instead dug in with the Soviets coming roaring back in.

That was Taming the Bear...which didn't quite work out![:D]

Yep. Supply is always a problem, but the Sovs get 4200 a day from off-map in the north. And a lot of their LI is way up there too.

Another issue is that once the border is open the door swings both ways. The Sovs have a great RR network all the way to the Chinese borders. Picture 12 of those IDs and all the tanks driving on Harbin down the RR right of way. What does having Harbin's aircraft industries flipped do to the Japanese efforts everywhere else all the way to August 1945?

[vicberg]

A bit of a reality check. In my Feb 1942 DBB game, the Sovs have 31 infantry divisions on the board. Dozens more brigades and regiments. One tank division and 13 tank brigades, plus smaller units. Artillery? Oh, my. I think there may be an over-focus on air power here.

So basically a full Manchuko vs. the Sovs is about 1-2 to 1-3 odds not accounting for air power, experience, etc..plenty of supply and is there a line of death?

[Lowpe]

Soviet troops come and go...especially in the latter half of 42. They are needed elsewhere. Also their replacements are weak...or low would be a better word.

The Soviets can't move until you violate their landspace, which makes for a coordinated strike at the railroads isolating all the troops down south a great tactic.

See Bullwinkle's response. See Taming the Bear by Radar it is only about 13 pages or so long if I recall correctly.

It is doable, but boy is it scary.

[Lowpe]

March is slipping away...like every month.

Sweep Seattle and other bases, nobody home.

Clean up a few more bases on Java, scuttling a half dozen junky trawlers of one flavor or another, plus some search planes.

Another grinding attack in China on the Ankang road...

Moving on Liuchow...

Might be able to get the Darwin invasion off before the end of the month...it is assembling now.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Soviet troops come and go...especially in the latter half of 42. They are needed elsewhere. Also their replacements are weak...or low would be a better word.

The Soviets can't move until you violate their landspace, which makes for a coordinated strike at the railroads isolating all the troops down south a great tactic.

See Bullwinkle's response. See Taming the Bear by Radar it is only about 13 pages or so long if I recall correctly.

It is doable, but boy is it scary.

Also note that rader's game is years and years ago now, before lots of learning by both camps. And before air coordination changes in patches. I haven't read the AAR in those same years, but I'd be interested to know what fort-building his opponent did. Me? I start building every Russian hex the first week.

[mind_messing]

Invading the USSR is a sure way to lose the strategic advantages of your current position.

Take China. Move troops from China to India. Take India.

If you get that far without winning an AV, then, and only then I would consider a campaign against the Russians, bringing everything possible to the battleground in the hope to get a bunch of VP's cheaply from bases and units to give you an AV.

The issue with the USSR is that the first couple of stages look easy: geography works in Japan's favor, they'll get the advantage of being able to pre-position units and they can get the first strike in.

The real crux comes once the first few stages are over - it's when the Soviets start fighting back that issues will develop.

[Lowpe]

We are bombing Portland today...sweeping Seattle and Portland.

Bombing Chungking with close to 100 Sallies or Lillies. Hope to catch a fair chunk of the Chinese planes on the ground there. 50 Ftrs and 50 Bombers.

Should be in Anchorage in a day or two...I should have it by the end of the month.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Soviet troops come and go...especially in the latter half of 42. They are needed elsewhere. Also their replacements are weak...or low would be a better word.

They do come and go.

But two data points:

My Feb 1942 DBB game, Soviet infantry squads in pools: 947

My November 1943 stock Scen 2 game, Soviet infantry squads in pools: 5715

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: vicberg

A bit of a reality check. In my Feb 1942 DBB game, the Sovs have 31 infantry divisions on the board. Dozens more brigades and regiments. One tank division and 13 tank brigades, plus smaller units. Artillery? Oh, my. I think there may be an over-focus on air power here.

So basically a full Manchuko vs. the Sovs is about 1-2 to 1-3 odds not accounting for air power, experience, etc..plenty of supply and is there a line of death?

No LOD. Why do you need one? [:)]

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Soviet troops come and go...especially in the latter half of 42. They are needed elsewhere. Also their replacements are weak...or low would be a better word.

The Soviets can't move until you violate their landspace, which makes for a coordinated strike at the railroads isolating all the troops down south a great tactic.

See Bullwinkle's response. See Taming the Bear by Radar it is only about 13 pages or so long if I recall correctly.

It is doable, but boy is it scary.

Also note that rader's game is years and years ago now, before lots of learning by both camps. And before air coordination changes in patches. I haven't read the AAR in those same years, but I'd be interested to know what fort-building his opponent did. Me? I start building every Russian hex the first week.

Even forgetting what on-map fort building takes place after Dec 7th, the majority of the Russian bases have serious fortress units already deployed.

This discussion has prompted me to re-read Radar's AAR. It doesn't give me much hope for Japanese chances. The majority of Rader's attacks ended up costing the Japanese far more than the Soviets: the best results required that the Japanese had overwhelming superiority in numbers, which you can do locally, but not everywhere...

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
This discussion has prompted me to re-read Radar's AAR. It doesn't give me much hope for Japanese chances. The majority of Rader's attacks ended up costing the Japanese far more than the Soviets: the best results required that the Japanese had overwhelming superiority in numbers, which you can do locally, but not everywhere...

I think you are correct! But it is fun to discuss it!