Climb Mt. Niitaka - Xargun vs Mr Kane

[Xargun]

Another slow day in the war. The night-time air war is ongoing, with nightly bombings of Singapore and Clark Field by IJA and IJN bombers. Not much affect at Singapore yet, but at Clark it has worn the defending fighter force down. I am now cautiously conducting escorted daylight raids on Clark Field - for once she actually shows damage to the airfield so I am slowly surpassing the abilities of the engineers there to repair it. I will slowly convert over completely to daylight raids there as long as my fighter fatigue stays good.

Sweeps over Clark Field are killing more allied fighters than I am losing now.

I spotted an allied TF east of Kwajalein Island two days ago - as before - and vectored in some subs. They arrived and put 2 torpedoes into AMC Prince Henry who was sitting there by herself - not sure why other than perhaps testing my reactions? Another sub ran into AMC Prince Robert 20 or so hexes East of the Home Islands and put 2 torpedoes into her as well. Both were reported sunk.

I just noticed a gaping problem at Palembang and it may be too late to stop it before it strikes. Apparently over the last couple turns (I went back to my saves and looked) Mr Kane has snuck a group of combat units into Palembang from the north. Two of them are now in Palembang and my 'big guns' are 2 hexes away - 4 days minimum travel time. I do have an armored unit at Palembang along with some AA units, but if those enemy units have any strength in them I will lose Palembang before the division can return [:@] Not sure how I missed the units when they approached - but I look and there is another one just 1 hex north and it blends in with the name Palembang making it hard to notice without directly looking. Not making excuses, just mad at myself for missing it. I have no one to blame but myself.

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Another slow day in the war. The night-time air war is ongoing, with nightly bombings of Singapore and Clark Field by IJA and IJN bombers. Not much affect at Singapore yet, but at Clark it has worn the defending fighter force down. I am now cautiously conducting escorted daylight raids on Clark Field - for once she actually shows damage to the airfield so I am slowly surpassing the abilities of the engineers there to repair it. I will slowly convert over completely to daylight raids there as long as my fighter fatigue stays good.

Sweeps over Clark Field are killing more allied fighters than I am losing now.

I spotted an allied TF east of Kwajalein Island two days ago - as before - and vectored in some subs. They arrived and put 2 torpedoes into AMC Prince Henry who was sitting there by herself - not sure why other than perhaps testing my reactions? Another sub ran into AMC Prince Robert 20 or so hexes East of the Home Islands and put 2 torpedoes into her as well. Both were reported sunk.

I just noticed a gaping problem at Palembang and it may be too late to stop it before it strikes. Apparently over the last couple turns (I went back to my saves and looked) Mr Kane has snuck a group of combat units into Palembang from the north. Two of them are now in Palembang and my 'big guns' are 2 hexes away - 4 days minimum travel time. I do have an armored unit at Palembang along with some AA units, but if those enemy units have any strength in them I will lose Palembang before the division can return [:@] Not sure how I missed the units when they approached - but I look and there is another one just 1 hex north and it blends in with the name Palembang making it hard to notice without directly looking. Not making excuses, just mad at myself for missing it. I have no one to blame but myself.

Palembang is a x3 defensive hex. If you have a good armor unit there, i.e. a 50 or 70 point AV unit. It should be hard to dislodge with only infantry and support weapons. If he brought down a British or Australian armor unit... well, that is trouble. Disrupt the attackers with airstrikes and hold on.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Another slow day in the war. The night-time air war is ongoing, with nightly bombings of Singapore and Clark Field by IJA and IJN bombers. Not much affect at Singapore yet, but at Clark it has worn the defending fighter force down. I am now cautiously conducting escorted daylight raids on Clark Field - for once she actually shows damage to the airfield so I am slowly surpassing the abilities of the engineers there to repair it. I will slowly convert over completely to daylight raids there as long as my fighter fatigue stays good.

Sweeps over Clark Field are killing more allied fighters than I am losing now.

I spotted an allied TF east of Kwajalein Island two days ago - as before - and vectored in some subs. They arrived and put 2 torpedoes into AMC Prince Henry who was sitting there by herself - not sure why other than perhaps testing my reactions? Another sub ran into AMC Prince Robert 20 or so hexes East of the Home Islands and put 2 torpedoes into her as well. Both were reported sunk.

I just noticed a gaping problem at Palembang and it may be too late to stop it before it strikes. Apparently over the last couple turns (I went back to my saves and looked) Mr Kane has snuck a group of combat units into Palembang from the north. Two of them are now in Palembang and my 'big guns' are 2 hexes away - 4 days minimum travel time. I do have an armored unit at Palembang along with some AA units, but if those enemy units have any strength in them I will lose Palembang before the division can return [:@] Not sure how I missed the units when they approached - but I look and there is another one just 1 hex north and it blends in with the name Palembang making it hard to notice without directly looking. Not making excuses, just mad at myself for missing it. I have no one to blame but myself.

Palembang is a x3 defensive hex. If you have a good armor unit there, i.e. a 50 or 70 point AV unit. It should be hard to dislodge with only infantry and support weapons. If he brought down a British or Australian armor unit... well, that is trouble. Disrupt the attackers with airstrikes and hold on.

The allies made one attack and were mauled by my armor unit - they haven't made another attempt. The division has returned to Palembang and is attacking them this turn and should clear the hex. The units marched all the way from Medan so they've been marching a while.

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

For late war (44 and beyond) what sort of numbers should I be looking at producing each month ? Mostly concerned with Fighters (regular and night) as well as bombers (including Dive and Torpedo). What is a 'usual' month expenditure of these assets including Kamikaze ?

I would not worry too much about exact numbers for end of war stuff. It will depend on innumerable factors, such as how the war progresses generally, ground casualties, heavy industry, fuel, and supplies. The biggest thing to always keep in mind is that all Japanese production is based off heavy industry. A heavy industry point can be an airframe, an engine, a gun, a tank, etc... . Every time a vehicle or gun is destroyed and replaced, that is one less engine that you can build for an airplane. Every 2-engine airplane built is 3 less tanks or guns that can be replaced. Therefore, your force pool and replacements are limited by your heavy industry. So, why not expand heavy industry?

Your heavy industry is limited by your fuel. To generate heavy industry points, you need fuel. The more fuel that your fleet uses, the less that is available for heavy industry. If you overexpand the economy, you will not have enough fuel to use your fleet effectively. If you run your fleet around too much, especially the BBs and CVs, you will have to idle some heavy industry eventually. If you opt for a defense first strategy, take the oil in the DEI intact, and limit your fleet movements, you can probably do some modest expansion of heavy industry. If you opt for an offensive strategy that uses your fleet often, expanding heavy industry is a waste of supply.

BTW, your experience on Luzon gives you an indication why I suggest putting some effort into the night-time airwar in 44 and 45.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

For late war (44 and beyond) what sort of numbers should I be looking at producing each month ? Mostly concerned with Fighters (regular and night) as well as bombers (including Dive and Torpedo). What is a 'usual' month expenditure of these assets including Kamikaze ?

I'll take the opposite side and state that planning now is critical, and you decision now influence that to a large degree.

The answer, obviously, is that you want to build as many as you can. How many is going to depend upon you economy size. Seriously. Now, the size of your economy is based essentially upon how much oil you are able to take control of and for how long you control it. Total oil => Total HI => Total Aircraft to be built.

The second thing that drives determination is HOW MUCH do you spend prior to '44? What I mean is that if you build 25,000 Tojo's, that is 25,000 fewer A7M / Ki-84 that you will be able to build.

These are REALLY simplified, but it is still the heart of the analysis.

Now, what do you take? Where is your expansion and how long do you plan to hold it? Yes, you do the plan and then adjust by exactly what you actually accomplish. If you are able to take and hold Calcutta, for example, that can add a lot of oil to your economy as it generally means that Magwe is secure and producing for you. 300/day is a BIG deal. holding it one year is 100,000 oil. That doesn't even count all the resources ....

The last thing that drives your aircraft build is that you must have SUPPLY to actually operate them. Again, spending supply on needless things in 42/43 will cripple you in 44/45 when you need it.

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Xargun

For late war (44 and beyond) what sort of numbers should I be looking at producing each month ? Mostly concerned with Fighters (regular and night) as well as bombers (including Dive and Torpedo). What is a 'usual' month expenditure of these assets including Kamikaze ?

I'll take the opposite side and state that planning now is critical, and you decision now influence that to a large degree.

The answer, obviously, is that you want to build as many as you can. How many is going to depend upon you economy size. Seriously. Now, the size of your economy is based essentially upon how much oil you are able to take control of and for how long you control it. Total oil => Total HI => Total Aircraft to be built.

The second thing that drives determination is HOW MUCH do you spend prior to '44? What I mean is that if you build 25,000 Tojo's, that is 25,000 fewer A7M / Ki-84 that you will be able to build.

These are REALLY simplified, but it is still the heart of the analysis.

Now, what do you take? Where is your expansion and how long do you plan to hold it? Yes, you do the plan and then adjust by exactly what you actually accomplish. If you are able to take and hold Calcutta, for example, that can add a lot of oil to your economy as it generally means that Magwe is secure and producing for you. 300/day is a BIG deal. holding it one year is 100,000 oil. That doesn't even count all the resources ....

The last thing that drives your aircraft build is that you must have SUPPLY to actually operate them. Again, spending supply on needless things in 42/43 will cripple you in 44/45 when you need it.

Pax... you can not let the bean-counters run a war[&:]... lol. They will always produce some number that proves something cannot be done.

Ok... to satisfy the demands of the bean counters (and unfortunately, Pax is right, you must listen to them at times), think of it this way. You do not expand production as Japan in War in the Pacific; instead you use supply to expand "potential" production. You will not always use all of the factories that you have built. You will turn them off and on. If you do late-war projections for plane builds, your best guess should be a conservative one. You can always expand industry later a bit more, but you can never get back supply that you have already spent to expand. If you wait until 43, for example, to expand some late-war airplane factories, you will not lose much R&D, as these factories repair very slowly in 42. You also receive compensation for any loss of R&D on late war planes in 42 by saving heavy industry points.

[Xargun]

Everyone keeps saying the IJN CV end game fighters are A6M8 and A7M2 Sam. I agree on the Sam, but why is the M8 Zero so much better than the 5c ? Stat-wise there is little difference except the 5c has better range and firepower. The M8 has 18mph speed advantage.

In this mod here are the differences:

A6M5c: Max Speed: 339 Range: 5(8) 6(10) ceiling: 32960 climb: 2875 manuever: 24/24/21/15/8 gun: 17 engine: Ha-35
A6M8: Max Speed: 357 Range: 4(7) 5(8) ceiling: 32870 climb: 2880 manuever: 25/25/22/16/8 gun: 14 engine: Ha-33

Which would you choose? and why ?

[witpqs]

I know nothing about choice of engine. 18 mph speed advantage is big. It has maneuver advantage too. One hex range less but can make a max range-8 strike. So knowing only what I do (not enough about playing IJ) I would choose M8.

[Lowpe]

M8, also packs a 250 kg bomb. Still inferior -- just not as much.

[Aurorus]

The zero suffers from its speed after 1942. Any boost to its speed is helpful and much needed. You will find by late 43 and into 44, all models of the zero are outclassed by everything that they encounter. This is where Sam comes in. The problem with Sam, however, is that by the time that you get it... allied naval air is supreme in numbers... supreme. Let me repeat... supreme. Even with Sam, you will not be able to directly assault U.S. CV and CVE TFs by air without herculean efforts and massive losses of aircraft. Go ahead and research the Sam, but always keep in mind that accelerating Sam, even by a year, will not change the situation drastically in 1944.

[Xargun]

We've done more turns and nothing exciting happening until this turn.

The turn opened up surprisingly good for the IJN...

Sub attack near Brisbane at 97,160

Japanese Ships
SS I-1

Allied Ships
CV Yorktown, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Minneapolis
DD Ralph Talbot
DD Maury
DD McCall
DD Gridley
DD Craven

Fuel storage explosion on CV Yorktown
SS I-1 launches 4 torpedoes at CV Yorktown
DD Maury fails to find sub and abandons search
DD McCall fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Gridley fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Craven fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Craven fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Craven fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Craven fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Craven fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Craven fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Craven fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


Two torps into the Yorktown and got away clean.. A great attack run, but IJN subs were not done yet.

ASW attack near San Francisco at 215,76

Japanese Ships
SS I-5

Allied Ships
BB California
AM Turkey
AM Oriole
AM Vireo
AM Grebe
AM Tern
AM Rail

SS I-5 is sighted by escort
I-5 diving deep ....
AM Vireo fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Grebe fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Tern attacking submerged sub ....
AM Tern loses contact with SS I-5
AM Rail fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Vireo fails to find sub and abandons search
AM Grebe fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Tern fails to find sub and abandons search
AM Rail fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Grebe fails to find sub and abandons search
AM Rail fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Rail fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Rail fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Rail fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Rail fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

Nothing happened but I-5 escaped without harm which was important.

Then round two for the subs...

Sub attack near Brisbane at 97,160

Japanese Ships
SS I-1

Allied Ships
CV Yorktown, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Maury

SS I-1 launches 4 torpedoes at CV Yorktown
DD Maury fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Maury fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Maury fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Maury fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Maury fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


Two more torpedoes into the Yorktown sealed her fate within sight of Brisbane. She went down with all aircraft on board - lots of planes on the scoreboard indicating the kill. This makes up for the Doolittle raid on the Home Islands. But you want more ??? ok.

Sub attack near San Francisco at 215,76

Japanese Ships
SS I-5

Allied Ships
BB California, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
AM Turkey
AM Oriole
AM Vireo
AM Grebe
AM Tern
AM Rail

SS I-5 launches 4 torpedoes at BB California
I-5 diving deep ....
AM Vireo fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Grebe fails to find sub and abandons search
AM Tern fails to find sub and abandons search
AM Rail fails to find sub and abandons search
AM Vireo fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Vireo attacking submerged sub ....
AM Vireo loses contact with SS I-5
SS I-5 eludes ASW attack from AM Vireo
AM Vireo loses contact with SS I-5
SS I-5 eludes ASW attack from AM Vireo
AM Vireo fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Vireo fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Vireo fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Vireo fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


Not to be outdone, I-5 came back and put a torp into the California - unfortunately only one so she is still alive. But with the damage from the Pearl strike she cannot be happy. I-5 and her friends are closing in to try to finish her off before she makes port at San Fran.

Overall a great start to otherwise mostly boring turn. The only other item of notice was the attack at Singapore.

Ground combat at Singapore (50,84)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 105466 troops, 923 guns, 521 vehicles, Assault Value = 3241

Defending force 66234 troops, 801 guns, 692 vehicles, Assault Value = 1287

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Japanese adjusted assault: 2239

Allied adjusted defense: 4723

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
12183 casualties reported
Squads: 47 destroyed, 707 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 145 disabled
Engineers: 19 destroyed, 65 disabled
Guns lost 92 (6 destroyed, 86 disabled)
Vehicles lost 52 (3 destroyed, 49 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
3186 casualties reported
Squads: 171 destroyed, 135 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 123 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 47 disabled
Guns lost 109 (23 destroyed, 86 disabled)
Vehicles lost 31 (4 destroyed, 27 disabled)

Assaulting units:
Imperial Guards Division
16th Naval Guard Unit
112th Infantry Regiment
15th Ind Engineer Regiment
I./143rd Infantry Battalion
6th Guards Division
113th Infantry Regiment
55th Engineer Regiment
24th Infantry Regiment
6th Tank Regiment
18th Division
148th Infantry Regiment
14th Tank Regiment
41st Infantry Regiment
33rd Division
56th Recon Regiment
23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
1st Tank Regiment
56th Engineer Regiment
16th Infantry Regiment
4th Ind Engineer Regiment
5th Division
55th Cavalry Regiment
14th Guards Regiment
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
56th Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
15th Army
55th Mountain Gun Regiment
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Southern Army
25th Army
21st Medium Field Artillery Battalion

Defending units:
8th Indian Brigade
1st Malay Battalion
2nd Malay Battalion
1st Manchester Battalion
22nd Australian Brigade
3rd Cavalry Regiment
22nd Indian Brigade
2nd Loyal Battalion
27th Australian Brigade
SSVF Brigade
2/17 Dogra Battalion
11th Indian Division
2nd Gordons Battalion
12th Indian Brigade
2nd ISF Base Force
22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
III Indian Corps
223 Group RAF
110th RAF Adv Base Force
112th RAF Adv Base Force
3rd HK&S Light AA Regiment
Malaya Army
Malayan Air Wing
3rd Heavy AA Regiment
113th RAF Adv Base Force
24th NZ Pioneer Coy
Singapore Base Force
Singapore Fortress
272/273rd Bty 80th AT Gun Regiment
1st HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
1st Indian Heavy AA Regiment
109th RN Base Force
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
224 Group RAF
111th RAF Adv Base Force
109th RAF Adv Base Force
AHQ Far East
5th Field Regiment


Nothing major, but the first crack in Singapore's defenses. A couple days rest for my troops and we will attack again.

[witpqs]

Double teaming Yorktown! Maybe gone...

California looks like she will be in SF for a while.

Good attack at Singers: very few destroyed squads, the disabled squads you should recover quickly at this stage of the game.

[Lowpe]

Well done.

What was the moonlight, perchance?

PS: I have put 6-7 sub torpedoes into a CV before she went down. Assume she is still afloat!

[Aurorus]

Congrats. Looks good. If you saw the Yorktown´s planes on the aviation losses, she is probably sunk. These are rarely in error. If you heard sinking sounds at some point after the sub attack, that is also a good indication. That initial attack set off some fuel, and it looks like the fires increased on the second attack. Even the allies are not going to put out ¨heavy fires¨ immediately outside of port. If she is not sunk, she is in very serious trouble.

Make sure you have good leaders for your divisions at Singapore.

What is the date?

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Well done.

What was the moonlight, perchance?

PS: I have put 6-7 sub torpedoes into a CV before she went down. Assume she is still afloat!

Unable to load the game until lunch time here at work. But will check and let you know.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

Congrats. Looks good. If you saw the Yorktown´s planes on the aviation losses, she is probably sunk. These are rarely in error. If you heard sinking sounds at some point after the sub attack, that is also a good indication. That initial attack set off some fuel, and it looks like the fires increased on the second attack. Even the allies are not going to put out ¨heavy fires¨ immediately outside of port. If she is not sunk, she is in very serious trouble.

Make sure you have good leaders for your divisions at Singapore.

What is the date?

Yes - got the sinking noise right after the second sub attack and approximate amount of AC appeared on the 'Destroyed on ground' column in the scoreboard.

Date is early March (3/4/42) and I'm behind schedule - as usual. Not sure what my issue is, but it seems I can never attain the same expansion rate that other players and historical Japan did as well. That is probably my biggest issue - my inability to expand quickly in the beginning.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Well done.

What was the moonlight, perchance?

PS: I have put 6-7 sub torpedoes into a CV before she went down. Assume she is still afloat!

Moonlight was 89% - a good night for subs

[Xargun]

Here is the Aircraft loss screen from the 3/4/42 turn.

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

Congrats. Looks good. If you saw the Yorktown´s planes on the aviation losses, she is probably sunk. These are rarely in error. If you heard sinking sounds at some point after the sub attack, that is also a good indication. That initial attack set off some fuel, and it looks like the fires increased on the second attack. Even the allies are not going to put out ¨heavy fires¨ immediately outside of port. If she is not sunk, she is in very serious trouble.

Make sure you have good leaders for your divisions at Singapore.

What is the date?

Yes - got the sinking noise right after the second sub attack and approximate amount of AC appeared on the 'Destroyed on ground' column in the scoreboard.

Date is early March (3/4/42) and I'm behind schedule - as usual. Not sure what my issue is, but it seems I can never attain the same expansion rate that other players and historical Japan did as well. That is probably my biggest issue - my inability to expand quickly in the beginning.

Nice Job. That will slow him down a tad.

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: Xargun


Date is early March (3/4/42) and I'm behind schedule - as usual. Not sure what my issue is, but it seems I can never attain the same expansion rate that other players and historical Japan did as well. That is probably my biggest issue - my inability to expand quickly in the beginning.

Fast expansion is not an abolute essential for Japanese success. If I had to choose between a fast expansion and one that preserves forces, I would choose the latter every time. The trick to a fast expansion is spending a lot of time on your turns and thinking ahead. You expansion is basically limited by how you use your ports for the first 2 months. Where do I want these APs and AKs... do I need to move troops or equipment and from which port.

Keep all you important ports busy every turn and the docks full: Takao, Samah, Camh Ran Bay, Babeldaob, and eventually Truk, et al. Be sure the docks are filled everyday with ships loading and ships arriving or waiting to load for the next day. If you have no troops to load that day, load up some cargo ships with supplies for the next time escorts are available to move those supplies forward. Also, always think about the size of the port at your destination. Can the ships fit into the port. TFs that are too large for the destination port, break them down when they get there and dock them one at a time. Place the escorts in their own ASW TF and sit them on the port to guard the ships at dock.

Also, get shipping engineers to all your major debarkation points immediately, especially any small port (such as Singora) where you want to unload vehicles and artillery. Also, get shipping engineers to the small ports that will serve as extraction points to pull your forces out of one area and move them forward, such as Butaan or Davao in Mindanao. Troops, and equipment, load very slowly at small ports, such as Davao, without shipping engineers.