1943 GC: Loki (Allies) GloriousRuse (Axis)

[loki100]

T88 – 3 March 1945

Another massive Luftwaffe raid on the depots behind 9 Army.



Predictable losses but then, given the stage of the game, I doubt the losses matter, more the resulting damage to my logistics network.



Next turn's weather is heavy rain over most of the front.

As usual in the battles around the Ruhr cities, picking up a lot of flak damage on tactical missions so, despite next week's expected weather still can't commit much. Bulk of the heavy bombers hit the defenders of Cologne and Amsterdam.

VP situation -5, despite getting bombing pts up to +2. Simply too many losses.



Netherlands, Amsterdam captured, Nijmegen cleared so that eases movement. 1 US blocked by low MP and the high cross river movement costs.



Cologne falls to the first assault. Other than that, no real gains as it seems this is the main German commitment.

To the south, the Airborne and 9 Army manage some gains but unable to exploit.



Also rather frustrating for 1FF and 7A, made some gains but no reward for the extra losses.



So think the theme of that turn is it was frustrating. I guess in part suspecting that the weather next turn will close things down. So losses.



On the subject of losses, seems that Montgomery has managed to get himself killed.



Destroyed list looks better than I expected, not sure where I destroyed 12 SS Pzr. Think I saw one counter disappear during the bombing phase so I may have bombed it into oblivion?



Since its quite a few turns since we had a picture of some bagpipes, here they are in Amsterdam (Canadian forces)

[paullus99]

Oh no, Monty died.....don't think many will cry over it.

[Sardaukar]

Monty dead...this was unexpected bonus. [:D][8D]

[GloriousRuse]

Re: VPs. When the game ends, I plan on posting a VP analysis. While it's obviously a work in progress - and Loki is actually on track to win this thing - some interesting initial findings. As a caveat, we both have a gentleman's agreement not to simply grab a chunk of France and wait for victory, hence we didn't feel the need for the city VP. Also, Loki isn't exactly playing for blood...he's been very forgiving in our game, including re-cocked turns, and is not trying for VP optimization.

That said:

-Without optional cities, waiting in France for victory is still very much plausible. Loki netted 260 VP (bombing-special target maluses) through the air war, pre-dominantly in '43. He did this while considering VP a necessary evil and targeting trucks and tanks. By the time of the August breakouts, his reward for do-nothing turns was around 6-8 VP per turn. He had not yet breached the Apennines. It won't get you a major, but one capital and a successful air war in '43 can win the game unless the optional cities are in play. It'd be a very boring game, but you'd win.

-Related to the above, the '43 to early '44 air war is basically sufficient to win. Loki was actually closer to a 280 air war VP before a few really bad V-weapon turns kicked in post-invasion. And again, he was not really VP raiding so much as hitting VPs to pay for his raids on military industries. Granted, he is quite good at the game and I am quite new, but presumably a lesser player fully dedicated to VPs could create similar results or better.

-The ground war is essentially paid in delay. Loki kicked me all over the map in '43, but by the VPs he was losing the ground war. After he was (self)-stabilized in N. Italy, he was being paid all spring long for an early Rome. Which means that it is really hard to make a mathematical case for ground action in '45 unless you have optional cities or think you can nab Berlin. Or have our hand-shake not to let the reds overrun Europe because it makes VP sense.

[Joel Billings]

With EF control on, things can change because the Soviets may not get to Berlin by May 5 so delay penalties could add up. But EF control brings an entirely different balance dynamic in play so you make a very good point re EF control off. So using the optional city VP rules is a good thing.

[GloriousRuse]

Thanks for the reply!

On the note of the ostfront, if I had a small wishlist for the game, a simplified EF box would be one of the items on it. Right now it is an ungodly spreadsheet and mini-game of optimizing refits in Berlin with potentially outsized impacts for proficiency in the mechanics rather than the big decision of “where do I send forces”...if the real intent is to reward the German player if he can fight with extra forces sent East, or punish him if he needs to bring more forces West, maybe there’s a way to simply decline a withdrawal or send additional forces without having to manage the giant list?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Oh no, Monty died.....don't think many will cry over it.

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Monty dead...this was unexpected bonus. [:D][8D]

Such lack of sympathy for the early demise of such a likeable general ... [;)]

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: GloriousRuse

Thanks for the reply!

On the note of the ostfront, if I had a small wishlist for the game, a simplified EF box would be one of the items on it. Right now it is an ungodly spreadsheet and mini-game of optimizing refits in Berlin with potentially outsized impacts for proficiency in the mechanics rather than the big decision of “where do I send forces”...if the real intent is to reward the German player if he can fight with extra forces sent East, or punish him if he needs to bring more forces West, maybe there’s a way to simply decline a withdrawal or send additional forces without having to manage the giant list?

I must confess I hate that long tail of VP losses if the EF is on and the Soviets slow, I've seen a few draws slitp to a minor defeat for no really good reason.

In this respect its worth noting that the Theatre Box system in WiTE2 is much more elegant. You can play that with full control or accept historical transfers. The latter is how we are testing the game at the moment and I think is the approach that makes sense.

But in WiTW its either inert or a lot of micro. In WiTE2, say the Germans do better in bashing the Soviets, well the lower replacement needed to hold the OstFront means more flows to containing the Western Allies (& vice-versa).

Also the new events system gives more variability than simply following the historical timetable. So say the Soviets have a good 1941 winter, well the extra replacements needed hit both east and west fronts, so maybe the Allies make better progress in N Africa and so on. The events then might make this worse or reset things.

[loki100]

T89 – 10 March 1945

As threatened, heavy rain and the same for next week according to the forecast. At least that makes for a quick airphase.

VP at -2, the big picture is not going to change much, but I am starting to double up city and bombing VP so still a chance to push this up towards +300.



Usual German attacks on my depots, this time provoking a bit of jet on jet action.



Southern armies manage to mostly clear the rough ground so some chance of the southern German cities.

3 Army managed some gains (not sure why but it has decent supply). Mostly let 2 Br rest.




Netherlands, over the Ij so in theory its open ground all the way to Berlin ...




Losses, in reality my combat losses are being swamped by attrition loses, especially with the high supply costs I am paying.



As an update to the last post, units destroyed by the Soviets are now appearing in my destroyed list, hence the 12 SS Pzr.

[loki100]

T90 – 17 March 1945

Bit of an unexpected weather improvement to rain/heavy mud – looks like the same next turn. At least I have some airpower again.

VP up to +6, still think we are heading for a draw.

I'm confused at the 0 for v-weapons, I thought the factories still generated VP even once the launch sites were out of action. The V-2 was launched from the sites in the Baltic (if I recall something I read correctly?). I certainly did a lot of damage in the air phase which suggests some factories had repaired. I know the calculation has a random element but this is more than I'd expect (esp as GR said some larger stuff had repaired).



Air allocation as before. Some of 8 AAF is still bombing deeper targets but almost everything else is on tactical air missions. If I can, the intention is bomb apart the German front line on 4 sectors and then see if that eases actually breaking through.

The Luftwaffe intervened but lost over 300 planes in the process. Further heavy A2A losses in the ground phase – I'm having to escort everything and have 3 substantial AS missions covering the main parts of the front (and some fighter groups unassigned and left back in reserve).

I revise my opinion that 'Point Blank' picked the wrong target, next time the Luftwaffe is hit in 1943.



In Italy, the Germans are trying some sort of 'ooze' offensive around Udine. I send my Italians to tell them not to push it too far.

Netherlands, any hopes of real gains removed by major rivers and poor terrain. Still managed to position 1 US Army for next turn.



2 British attacked north towards the Ruhr with some gains. Hope is that with Cologne now up as a depot supply will improve here.

Far more successsful was the combination of 3A, 9A and the Airborne Army. Darmstadt was the only city taken but that sets me up for Frankfurt and the relatively clear terrain of Hesse.




7 and 1FF armies advance almost at will. The Germans had to leave one sector weak and its clear they are defending the Ruhr. Here the only constraint is my MP as I can mostly operate using hasty attacks.

Karlsruhe and Pforzheim captured and only 10 miles from Stuttgart.



Do remain confused as to the accuracy of this table, especially as I attacked far more this turn than last.



A large pile of shells for British artillery

[loki100]

T91 – 24 March 1945

So 6 or 7 turns left ... so that implies say another +30, with a bit more for extra gains. Still think its heading for a draw.



Cologne is repaying all the effort to take it. Interesting to see that Bordeaux is still contributing freight to the front line depots. Its also well protected.

Germans lost 330 planes in their latest attack on my depots, fortunately they hit Saarbruecken, which matters but is an area with some redundancy due to the network I have in place.

Weather light rain/heavy mud, next turn it will return to heavy rain.



Netherlands, starting to cross the German border, another sector where I can make a few deep penetrations with rested armour. Its also a supply rich sector with so many large ports and decent sized railyards.



2 British slowly cutting behind the Ruhr – no point attacking it till its cut off. 3 US mostly rested but a few gains.



Approaching Frankfurt, few pockets and the threat of a larger one.



Near complete collapse for the Germans, main issue now is my lack of MP.



Losses light again, maybe that attrition rates are falling now I have a good depot network east of hte Rhine.



Manpower. Good for the end, I've scrapped a UK armour and infantry division and paratroop brigade. Not only frees up manpower but also places useful elements in the pools.

[loki100]

T92 – 31 March 1945

Rare instance where my forecasters were wrong, turned to light rain and light mud. Looks like the very northern sector of the front gets heavy rain next week but mostly stays as light rain.

Germans bombed Cologne (the little bit that BC left alone).

VP per turn stabilising around +6.



Can't really call this the Netherlands any more though the Germans still hold 3 cities in Friesland.

Mostly relying on hasty attacks now and then pushing back the routed pile.

Main intention now is to cut off theh Ruhr and move the infantry to move into position for the assault. This will free the US armour to roam across N Germany (or not).



2 British took Wuppertal and cut the rails east of Dortmund. Still losing battles here but 3 Army reducing the German bulge (makes it easier to refit and resupply).

Need to put a unit adjacent to Essen to stop that working as a NSS. Failed this turn (the 3 hasty attacks) but will manage this from north or south next turn. If I can surround the Ruhr then it will fall before the end of the game.



3 cities taken on this sector and Frankfurt surrounded. Still some strong German stacks.



Mirror image of the north. Again able to advance by hasty attack. Ulm captured, should be able to take Stuttgart next turn.



Losses up a lot, but I may have enough factories to give me 3 bombing points.

At a rough guess I have about 250 'factories' under my control (so say 1.5 VP), a lot of population pts escape but are damaged, I'd make a very rough guess at say 100 of this, so that gives me over 2 VP, plus the remnants of the damage from the strategic bombing.



Supply is mostly ok. Some odd differences such as 7A having more than 1FF (despite that operating from the Strasbourg bridges).

[EddyBear81]

I'm afraid the Ruhr won't be "cut off" : Essen is a national supply source (NSS) ?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: EddyBear81

I'm afraid the Ruhr won't be "cut off" : Essen is a national supply source (NSS) ?

stops being that once a unit is adjacent, been carefully rereading the rules about that as its very different in WiTE2 (which I have got more used to).

reverts to simply being a normal depot and all the surplus over new capacity is lost

[loki100]

T93 – 7 April 1945

This time the forecast was worse than I expected – heavy rain/heavy mud across the front. So no airpower this turn. Looks like the same next turn as well.

My rough estimate of the bombing VP was correct, up to +3.



Given the weather, trying to do some build up for the Ruhr battles but also no point in a general rest. So north of the Ruhr add a few more cities and should be able to encircle it next turn.

Took quite a lot of bombing VP as I cleared the northern suburbs (all that oil and fuel production).



Main thing here was capturing Frankfurt. That stops German auto-rebuilds (which will really make a difference).

Main aim is to move 3A towards Kassel and a large pocket around the German units south of the Ruhr, 15A can push towards Wuerzburg and Schweinfurt (lots of bombing VP).



Preparing to take Stuttgart, really here its a case of taking what is on offer – no real need to fight for much.



Losses more or less the same, largely driven by attrition rather than combat.

[loki100]

T94 – 14 April 1945

I've never played an EF off game to the end. So the manual says it will end first turn of May, so after this one I assume I have 2 more turns as I guess T97 will be 4 May (or similar)?

Got lucky (again) with the weather – light rain/heavy mud so at least I can bomb things – according to the CR I have 14,200 planes (excl transports) available. Looks like it will be much the same next turn.

VP up to +8, helped by bombing pts up to +4 (those factories north of the Ruhr and around Frankfurt will have helped).



North of the Ruhr take the last cities in the Netherlands, 1 Army spreads out between Bremen and Hannover.

Ruhr itself is cut off. Dortmund and Dusseldorf captured. Not sure I'll have the chance to take the 3 central hexes – depends on how quickly they start to suffer supply problems.



3 Army's mobile units lacking fuel so the main progress east of Frankfurt is the infantry just pushing forward. If I can restore mobility there are some decent targets just behind the current front.

In the south, take Stuttgart, Germans have reverted, sensibly, to a hedgehog defence at the key cities.



Losses staying much the same as on recent turns. Add on around 9,000 damaged tanks, some formations have over 60% of their tanks out of action.



As I've been remiss about pictures – here is one of Allied troops entering Dortmund in April 1945.



We can come back to a discussion of VP at the end. But very basically losses=city VP and it is my net bombing points that make a difference. Practical issue is that once I decided to gamble on being aggressive I needed to keep to it – it cost me heavily early on and then I needed the Italian cities just to balance that out and so on.

I'm still not convinced it is worth committing to Italy post-Rome, even though I have indeed done it here.

[loki100]

T95 – 21 April 1945

I don't think the Germans reacted well to my lone US cavalry regiment that went on a run across their line of retreat.



VP +13. If I am right that there are two more turns then this could be interesting – still think its not going to reach 300.



Weather improves to rain/light mud, likely to be the same next turn. Have I mentioned that I think I have been lucky with the weather.

Given where we are this is no longer a particular secret. Shows my depot structure behind the northern armies. Have just built the one in Dusseldorf.



Now if we press the '8' key we can see how it is being used – a red line is a combat formation/HQ supply trace (shows the main source of supply, there maybe others), a white line is a depot-depot trace.

Explains why 3 Army has had problems if it is drawing direct from Rotterdam, note that Antwerp has very low stores and is basically sending out everything it receives to depots closer to the front/ Cologne is vital for the armies just to the south of the Ruhr.



Bochum was heavily bombed as it appeared to be the weakest of the 3 Ruhr hexes. Assaulted by the bulk of 1 US and 2 British the defenders clearly decided against fighting too hard.



More opportunistically, 15 Army attacked Duisberg. First attack failed but the second was quick and to the point.

Just leaves Essen for next turn.




As I mentioned in the last post, I'm playing with the strat recon overlay showing. May as well hunt bombing pts as anything else.

1 Canadian securing the northern flank while 1 US probes towards Hannover.



Given that 3 armies are involved in the Ruhr battles, shifted 3 US a bit north. Kassel remains a possible target.



The long southern flank. 9A and 1FF trying for Wuerburg and Nuremberg, 7A more opportunistic in its goals but took Augsburg this turn.



OOB. To ease commmand malus around the Ruhr added 15A to 21 Br AG and placed 1 Canadian reporting directly to SHAEF.

I have almost 6,000 damaged tanks.



Turn losses, my losses up a bit.



Since we started with a discussion of the air allocations, lets end that way. USSTAF is basically 8 and 9 AAF. The P47-22 is a direct copy of the -25 so that helps ensure my FB formations are well equipped. Keeping some P38s on the J model as that eases replacement demands.



RAF HQ is a bit more messy as it includes all the Med air groups (so 15AAF and Malta Air both of which are in France).

Getting good use out of my Meteors – in part as the sky is still full of German targets.

I have run out of Typhoons.



So have brought the Kittyhawk IV back out of retirement, for a purely GS mission it is good if you deploy relatively close to the front.

Worth noting that the FF air groups can swap between CW and US equipment at need. So you can pick either best fit or from more plentiful pools, as of now they are all using US planes. I'm also running short of Mosquitos.



But have plenty of level bombers.




Some of the more sensible German forces from the Ruhr.

[GloriousRuse]

A German Interlude: A Thousand Years Ends Early

After the game proper ends, I’ll have a few full game observations, but for this final phase here’s the German POV.

I will say, these are grim times as the German player.

Attrition rules hit units with low supply, low experience, and low morale the hardest. Almost all of your units will have two out of three of those and once the battle gets mobile the fact that you are for the first time really starting to run low on trucks for supply rather than just losing a few panzer MP. Which means many units will start taking low supply losses as well. Your entire front line starts dissolving like a sandcastle at the beach, and that is before the allies even attack.

And when they do attack, it gets worse. Everything runs, everything routs, and if you don’t have panzer or an FJ in place, you won’t get a hold. Even with those holds, the days of watching two thousand allies fall in a failed attack are long gone.

Between the two, the losses go beyond the point where you can hope to keep up. Depleted units mostly stay depleted. By the end, over half the Heer at any one moment is in “refit” or “unready.” To my mind your goal is no longer to manage individual crisis’s. It’s to simply try to slow down the utter catastrophe.

With that said:

THE ENEMY

Loki, and I assume really the WA in general, needed the Ruhr for both it’s pile of VPs and because it unlocks north Germany for virtually limitless conquest once the supplies come through. I figured he would make his main effort near Cologne to avoid crossing a major river into fortified cities, shift his Italian Theater forces to South Germany for a secondary drive on either Stuttgart or Munich, and pick up what he could elsewhere. The only upside was that without the Ruhr, there was a natural limit to how easily he could advance into the Hamnurg/Bremen region.

THE PLAN

The overall intent of the plan was to try to slant as much combat power SE and away from the Ruhr as practical, accepting risk in the south and north to achieve that. Optimally, I wanted to channel combat power into the relative dead end of Frankfurt where there are less major VPs to harvest and the rail lines are less bountiful. The idea was that this would delay the fall of the Ruhr until virtually the end of the game, at the expense of Frankfurt and Stuttgart being relatively easy fights for the WA. The hopes were that this would both limit VP and effectively prevent the WA from ever attempting to cross the Elbe or the Wasser.

To that end, I decided to focus nearly all of my remaining armor and semi-intact formations in the Ruhr sector, leaving the south and the Netherlands to their fate. The Frankfurt area was left deliberately weaker to hopefully drag the WA in that direction – away from the Ruhr and away from Berlin! That said, it’s not like I could have mounted a serious defense both there and in the Ruhr anyhow so this may have been a case of making a necessity into a virtue.

The fight would consist of a stand on the banks of the Rhine, using forts that had been digging since the Maas was threatened, a projected containment fight near Cologne to limit the expansion, and then hopefully one last slog through the forests before there was simply nothing left to fight with. At that point, the defenders of the Ruhr proper would simply fight to the death. All other fronts were simply to screen as long as possible using the terrain they had, with divisions being deployed to cities to force an encirclement before the inevitable fall.

THE OUTCOME

Sort of worked. I made a significant error in the Ruhr sector, moving too much armor E/SE because of the temptation of the forest and trying to slide the allies further down. It would have been better able to keep the key cities open by staying in the northern forests and forcing the WA hook to go much longer. As tit was, I created a vulnerability to a short drive along the seam of the woods and the cities – and Loki punished me for it.

The fight on the Rhine disappointed in the ease of crossing, but worked reasonably well for containment near Cologne. Again, the great German mantra of the game seems to be “you can’t stop WA, but once they commit you can muff them ok.” So far, we were on plan. Then Loki started turning an army SE along the woods toward Frankfurt and I figured it might work out. Alas, he started driving NE and I was not quick enough to re-adjust to the reality that the one corps driving there was a much larger threat than the army that might break through the woods. I failed, he cut the Ruhr off two weeks early, and that was the game.

In the south and north he pushed, and pushed, and eventually the forces left there collapsed. An unfortunate reality was that was going to happen most places.

LESSONS

NSS Refit: A bit late to learn this, but it became so easy to use that I learned it by default. One week on a Nation Supply Source – ANY NSS - will bring virtually any formation back to fighting strength. Even a panzer division. Probably the one thing letting the Heer stay in the fight at all was after I made that discovery I started rotating units through. Too little, too late, but a good thing to know.

The Screen: As the one really potentially mobile battle – France is really just pursuit to the next German line – this fight set really highlighted the value of a light screen. Even badly battered security regiments can keep the WA from exploding outwards with their endless armored and motorized legions. By leaving a screen in contact with the WA you can ensure that your intact formations don’t take the Sunday punch and that the WA will have to commit to a major attack after wading through some combat delay. The sum effect is that so long as you can layer, you can keep advances to twenty to thirty miles. Which would be horrific in Italy, but by this point looks positively cheery.

Don't Get Lazy: It is very easy at this stage to get sloppy. It's been a long game. The WA are stomping your face into the curb without any apparent impediment. Your strongest defenses shatter in a turn if the WA really care to break them. Your planning devolves in shuffling more and more and barely coherent units into desperate layers of speedbumps.

But there are still a handful of formations you have, mostly panzers, that can at least redirect the allied tide or slow it down. Using them well can still change where and how the WA win, even if it can't stop them from winning their fights. In this case, they turned Loki off axis just fine - until I screwed up, and then there he was to pounce.

[loki100]

T96 – 28 April 1945

Weather stays rain/light mud, it'll be the same next turn (if that matters).

VP chart is intriguing. As I guessed the Ruhr is worth around 1.5 bombing pts a turn and that does start to add up.



Bombing fairly routine except that 8AAF hit Berlin as a final strategic raid – just to remind Uncle Jo of what can happen .... Actually I am pretty much out of worthwhile tactical targets.

Anyway, not much of real interest happened. Took Essen and a few secondary VP targets, everything of value was well defended.





Now I think this is called 'cutting it fine'.



So we've agreed round #2, where I am made to suffer horribly for all that fun.

Thanks for all the readers and comments, as ever much appreciated. GR is a great opponent with the game played in a pleasant manner and quick return of turns (when feasible).

Some final comments relatively soon.

[EwaldvonKleist]

Congrats @both for finishing the game!

Well written AAR [:)]