The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[FatR]

An old Jap CL is not a fair exchange for a modern USN "CL", but throwing a DD into mix makes the deal pretty nice for the Allies.

On SCTF composition: it is sometimes said that 8 ships is an optimal number for an SCTF, but I can't confirm if it is true or not. I can say, though, that in battles between mixed DD/capital ships TFs DDs tend to fire at DDs and everything else tends to fire at everything else. So I prefer to use either 3-4 battleships/cruisers per a 8-ship TF, or none. Seems to work, although I can't guarantee that it isn't me being lucky.

[ny59giants]

I was reading your account of the surface combat and looked at the names of the Allied DDs. They seemed to be all older DDs. I was saying to myself, "Where are the Fletchers??" Glad to see some getting into some potential action this next time around. [:)] Don't forget to train up your FP pilots in Naval Search and Recon. Place them on night time patrols, as able.

You can safely add a CVL to each of your CV TF once they start coming in without going over the 150 plane limits.

Glad to see your monitoring yourself so you don't get too predictable. [&o]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Just a question from left field . . .

What have you got defending NZ? Land, sea, and air?

Only land units. We've shipped lots of supplies and fuel since day 1 to NZ and we've extracted only some air units from there.
I really doubt however that he's coming for NZ now. He'll need a full scale invasion and he cannot for sure invade NZ bypassing The Solomons, New Hebrids and New Caledonia....and all those places have strong defences that he cannot simply ignore. No, i don't think, at least as far as my CVs are afloat, that he can even think about invading NZ.

Hokay . . .

[CaptBeefheart]

The 150 plane CV TF "limit" in 1943 is not really a limit. [EDIT: If the TF has 180 A/C (i.e. a standard 2 Yorktown TF) then you have a 30% chance that the chance of an uncoordinated strike would be doubled. Thus, it's 180-150 = 30% chance, not a 100% chance, of doubling the chance of an uncoordinated raid.]

To me, the benefits of having fewer TFs for coordination, fewer TFs that could do ill-advised reactions and more escorts, especially BB bomb sponges, per TF far outweigh a possible, not definite, coordination penalty which I don't recall seeing anyway. Just my 2 won. Your mileage may vary.

EDIT: Thanks, WLockard, for the info from the manual.

Cheers,
CC

[WLockard]

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

The 150 plane CV TF "limit" in 1943 is not really a limit. I don't have the rules handy (I should be working), but as I recall if the TF has 180 A/C (i.e. a standard 2 Yorktown TF) then you have a 30% chance of an uncoordinated strike (someone please correct me if I'm wrong here). Thus, it's 180-150 = 30% chance, not a 100% chance, of an uncoordinated raid. To me, the benefits of having fewer TFs for coordination, fewer TFs that could do ill-advised reactions and more escorts, especially BB bomb sponges, per TF far outweigh a possible, not definite, coordination penalty which I don't recall seeing anyway. Just my 2 won. Your mileage may vary.

Cheers,
CC

The handy-dandy manual says that you would have a 30% chance that the chance of an uncoordinated strike would be doubled. I have no idea what the chance is to start with, but assume it would be tied to commander ratings, aircrew ratings, etc.

[CaptBeefheart]

WLockard: Thanks for the clarification. In my experience, 2 CV TFs work fine in 1943 and 3 CV and 2 CV/3CVL TFs work fine in 1944.

That said, I may try CRSutton's idea of 6 CVs in one TF just to see how it works.

Cheers,
CC

[WLockard]

I've not had any problems, I think I have seen a few uncoordinated strikes but not many. As the allies I usually have to put 2 CVs into a TF in 42 because I don't have enough escorts for 6 TFs.

[GreyJoy]

Thanks Fatr, NY59, CC and WLockard,

again difficult call to be taken. I managed to get 6 CVTFs...of 10 ships each...but i don't feel "safe" anymore cause i do have the fear CRsutton just named...the more TFs, the higher the chances they will react differently when in combat... Don't know yet which will be my last decision...i have to think about it...

However another turn has passed by and we were Lucky this time. The bad defeats suffered yesterday forced Rader to lower the range of his anti-naval air units and he only committed 250 Zeros to Sweep Tulagi...and didn't find anything to sweep[:D], but the 148th Regiment is now completely safely ashore, bringing the total Tulagi AVs up to 720!!!. More mines were placed reaching the number of 375...Kirakira is being built meanwhile and its garrison strenghtened. We safely evacuated our 2nd USMC Para BN from Aruki before he could smash it with his Helens...but he's advancing nonetheless...2 more units have been brought during the last two nights at Akuri and Thousands Ships Bay and we're finding a growing number of leaky CAP fighters over Tulagi...we've lost 20 planes against his 7 over Tulagi today during our bombing missions...escorting Wildcats suffered badly, along with B-25s and B-26s...which are really harmless against his fighters...

Oh, and we hit CS Nisshin 2 times...with Dud Torps[:@][:@][:@][:@]. Rader is chasing down my SSs north of Rabaul with a strong ASW TF composed of E class ships and CSs...pretty risky as a composition...but he got lucky this time!

Now we want to bring another Marine CD unit to Tassafaronga, while more mines are being placed all around the Solomons. Our 4Es will be moving to Lunga and will try to smash Russell Island again with a very short and safe trip. Corsairs and P-38s will provide sweeps, while P-39s will be placed as escort.

Finally at Tulagi our forts are back to lvl 5 so we can stop building and start to accumulate supplies. We're now at 20k...i'd like to be well over 50k....so we need more efforts. I'm very happy to have another full regiment ashore there...

The KB is parked 2 hexes south of Rabaul since last week...providing zeros sweeps over Solomons but nothing more...he's clearly waiting for my CVs to pop up...

As Dixie said...if nothing more, the decision to stand and fight here is assuring lot of actions and fun!

[jonreb31]

The way I see it the more CV TFs you have the less flattop targets you have neatly lined up for your opponent's strike aircraft.

[GreyJoy]

an updated map for the 24th feb 1943

Jap garrisons at Thousand Ships bay and Auki are growing stronger every day, despite my efforts. However, if i manage to hold my positions, those garrison may become traps for the japanese troops when the allies will be able to get the supremacy over those skies...

Till that moment, the Solomons will be noman's land

[JeffroK]

Dont concentrate on the Solomons and forget the rest of the map.

PS  I send my combat forces in groups of 25, every AA pt counts, every Naval gun or torpedo could be the vital one, and your opponent isnt going to outnumber you.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Dont concentrate on the Solomons and forget the rest of the map.

PS  I send my combat forces in groups of 25, every AA pt counts, every Naval gun or torpedo could be the vital one, and your opponent isnt going to outnumber you.

As far as i can tell the "key" area should be safe enough. The Hawaii are well defended and full of planes. The Aleutinas are obviously lightly defended but enough to prevent any "easy picking". Suva and Pago Pago are strongly garrisoned with very good fortifications (Suva's being at 9 and 6 at Pago).
Line Island are well built too. Midway has 6 forts and lots of supplies. Oz is being built everywhere and i don't see any real threat there.

Sincerly, wherever he decides to go - if he ever wants to - he will need to committ huge forces...forces that won't be facing ours in the Solomons...and as long as my CVs remain afloat he will have to be prudent in sending invasion forces far away from his LBAs

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: JonReb

The way I see it the more CV TFs you have the less flattop targets you have neatly lined up for your opponent's strike aircraft.

That's was true in WitP. Not true in AE, where strikes target hexes, not TFs. The more ACTFs there are, the greater is risk that some fall behind or react into enemy (to which carriers are notoriously prone), causing a piecemeal defeat.

As about 25-ship TFs, really big ACTFs have merit, due to reasons described above. Very big SCTFs are at a disadvantage. They have more ability to absorb punishment, but most of their ships won't actively participate in a surface battle before enemy disengages.

[GreyJoy]

About the Fletchers... i'm assembling them togheder (those i have at hands at least), leaving the other classes for escort pourposes, while they will be my fighting DDs.

The Bristol Class however did do well in the last encounter, but i'm expecting really a lot more by the armoured fletchers.

I decided to re-unite our CVs in the previous disposition around 3 CVTFs...still don't know which of the two ways is the best one, but i simply cannot efford to devote so many DDs to my CVs right now.. i hope the second "philosophy" (meaning the one which doesn't fear that much the uncordination penalty) won't unfold in a terrible mistake [:)].

[House Stark]

That's a lot of land based air. And you say the KB just seems to be waiting? He's probably hoping to bring your carriers to battle and bury them with LBA. For what my noob opinion is worth, I'd say don't go anywhere near that with carriers in case they decide to react into that nest of death.
On that note, can your Marine squadrons upgrade to Hellcats? Maybe you could use your initial Hellcats on those boys and save the carrier squadron upgrades until your ready to deploy them. Also it would give you a way to test to see how much of an improvement the Hellcats make. Because if you're getting and even or favorable kill ratio before, then better fighters with more replacements can only improve that. Why use carriers if he wants to fight a land-based air war?

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: House Stark

That's a lot of land based air. And you say the KB just seems to be waiting? He's probably hoping to bring your carriers to battle and bury them with LBA. For what my noob opinion is worth, I'd say don't go anywhere near that with carriers in case they decide to react into that nest of death.
On that note, can your Marine squadrons upgrade to Hellcats? Maybe you could use your initial Hellcats on those boys and save the carrier squadron upgrades until your ready to deploy them. Also it would give you a way to test to see how much of an improvement the Hellcats make. Because if you're getting and even or favorable kill ratio before, then better fighters with more replacements can only improve that. Why use carriers if he wants to fight a land-based air war?

Yes my Marines squadrons can upgrade to Hellcat thank God. I'll upgrade them first and i for sure won't send my CVs in that nest of Netties...i'll keep my CVs in cover just in case he wants to try something bold and unexpected (like an invasion far away his LBA or another raid at Ndeni or Lungaville).

With the Hellcats i won't win the war, that's for sure, but at least i'll have 130 monthly fighters to send into the meatgrinder. And the Hellcats can stand the Tojos and will be able to fly above 31k feet...so i'll also have the "dive" advantage which is a good thing. I have to resist one more month with the wildcats (that die like flies against everything they face).

I'm pretty sure he's up to something more than just "baiting" my CVs. He's massing his troops for something else while i'm focused on the Solomons...i just have to understand where....my guess?...Aleutinas or NE Oz

[House Stark]

How badly are the Wildcats doing, and how many good pilots are you losing with them? Will you still have enough elite pilots to fly the Hellcats when they arrive?

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: House Stark

That's a lot of land based air. And you say the KB just seems to be waiting? He's probably hoping to bring your carriers to battle and bury them with LBA. For what my noob opinion is worth, I'd say don't go anywhere near that with carriers in case they decide to react into that nest of death.
On that note, can your Marine squadrons upgrade to Hellcats? Maybe you could use your initial Hellcats on those boys and save the carrier squadron upgrades until your ready to deploy them. Also it would give you a way to test to see how much of an improvement the Hellcats make. Because if you're getting and even or favorable kill ratio before, then better fighters with more replacements can only improve that. Why use carriers if he wants to fight a land-based air war?

Yes my Marines squadrons can upgrade to Hellcat thank God. I'll upgrade them first and i for sure won't send my CVs in that nest of Netties...i'll keep my CVs in cover just in case he wants to try something bold and unexpected (like an invasion far away his LBA or another raid at Ndeni or Lungaville).

With the Hellcats i won't win the war, that's for sure, but at least i'll have 130 monthly fighters to send into the meatgrinder. And the Hellcats can stand the Tojos and will be able to fly above 31k feet...so i'll also have the "dive" advantage which is a good thing. I have to resist one more month with the wildcats (that die like flies against everything they face).

I'm pretty sure he's up to something more than just "baiting" my CVs. He's massing his troops for something else while i'm focused on the Solomons...i just have to understand where....my guess?...Aleutinas or NE Oz

Actually, the hellcat will do just fine. It can beat anything Japan has until the Frank arrives in late 1943. I found it to be a balance changer in mid 1943.

[GreyJoy]

My wildcats are doing badly also because i'm using them as a second category fighter...LRCAP or escort...when i really need fighters i use P-40K, Kittihawk or P-39s which perform a little bit better
 
Anyway...a strange turn the last one...
 
24, 25 Feb 1943
 
Japan arrived during the night of 24th in force at Tulagi, bringing 1 HUGE SCTF...but he arrived just few hours later not being able to catch my minelayers who laid mines all over the Solomons [:'(]...2 CAs hit mines and also an APD moving troops to Thousand got struck[:D]...another DD got damaged during a collision after the first mine hit by the main ship.
 
He's bringing LOTS of big units (intel says a regiment and an Eng regiment) to Thousand Ships Bay...It's being a race to reinforce the Solomons!
 
However his big SCTF sunk 8 PTs...nothing more...then with the daylight got back to Shortlands
 
one of my APD TFs was found and hit by his Vals while it was delivering a marine Defence unit to Tassafaronga...luckly i had divided the main TF in 3, giving them 3 different routes... Another FA units is being unloading at Tassafaronga right now... while more supplies are flowing to Tulagi which, however, is really difficult to keep supplied...they dropped from 20k to 16k in 2 days[X(]
 
We made another big effort against Russell Island, with 10 Corsairs, 15 P-38s, 30 P-40k and some 10 P-39s on sweep from tassafaronga. We found a stiff opposition...not less than 60 japanese planes on LRCAP...the fight was brutal and we managed to shot down in 2 days 60 enemy planes, losing 25 of my own...then the 4Es assured that the field remained closed.
 
I need to recover my 4Es and get them at max strenght...but i need them to close his AFs and i don't have any reserve left...[:-]
 
Kirakira reached level 2 AF despite the visit of 88 Helens today...the base is developed enough to be fullfilled with 100 fighters who will guarantee the CAP to my ships approaching Lunga and Tulagi.
 
Tomorrow we'll move a big convoy to Tulagi. 150 fighters are moved at Tulagi to provide cover and 2 important SCTF will be moved there too. 60 SDBs and 20 torpedo bombers, along with 50 fighters on escort will be moved at Lunga just in case
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 64 encounters mine field at Thousand Ships Bay (114,136)
 
Japanese Ships
      APD Kuri, Mine hits 1,  heavy damage
 
Japanese ground losses:
      5 casualties reported
         Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
         Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
 
 
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 353 encounters mine field at Tulagi (114,137)
 
Japanese Ships
      CA Haguro, Mine hits 1
      CA Myoko, Mine hits 1
 
 
 
 
 

[CaptBeefheart]

I've seen what appears to be a movement in supplies and/or fuel between Tulagi and Lunga, even though they are separate islands. Since your supplies are so important on Tulagi it wouldn't hurt to hoard them (or whatever the command is in the base panel).

Cheers,
CC