Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A)

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

April 4 1943

The ambush over Christmas didn't work. For the first time in 3 months the enemy bombers, despite clear weather, didn't come [:o]. I had to set my Georges back to Java cause the long range LRCAP mission gave too much fatigue for another day in a row... too bad[:@]
However the strip, despite the bombings, is slowly getting back to operativity. we're down to 27% damage, but the repair facilities are 100% damaged so it's impossible to base anything there other than FPs...

Quiet everywhere else... just some BBs spotted 1 hex north of Derby... and some PTs coming up to Koepang... if he wants to naval bomb Koepang he's gonna find me ready. Bombers are being transfered and some DDs are already in place, along with 250 mines and 5 subs...

Alor (north of Timor) is being bombed mercylessy... he's trying to shut down all the not defended AFs in the southern DEI...

many many subs are hunting around Truk where my KB is parked (and spotted by his long range recon planes).

It seems that i'm playing a SUPER nerfed Japanese economy... more than 1000 HI factories seem to be missing in Japan .... 7100 in Stock Scen 2, 6070 in this scenario...oh my...[X(]

No, not nerfed. I beleive that they used Scen 1, the historical scenario as their basis. Scen 2 is a fantasy scenario where IJ is given quite a decent boost to allow her to be more competitive for a longer period of time. ie increase the likelihood that the game will go into '45 and the allies will actually get to use their Bolts and Stangs. A lot of Scen 1 games end in late '43 / early '44.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

April 4 1943

The ambush over Christmas didn't work. For the first time in 3 months the enemy bombers, despite clear weather, didn't come [:o]. I had to set my Georges back to Java cause the long range LRCAP mission gave too much fatigue for another day in a row... too bad[:@]
However the strip, despite the bombings, is slowly getting back to operativity. we're down to 27% damage, but the repair facilities are 100% damaged so it's impossible to base anything there other than FPs...

Quiet everywhere else... just some BBs spotted 1 hex north of Derby... and some PTs coming up to Koepang... if he wants to naval bomb Koepang he's gonna find me ready. Bombers are being transfered and some DDs are already in place, along with 250 mines and 5 subs...

Alor (north of Timor) is being bombed mercylessy... he's trying to shut down all the not defended AFs in the southern DEI...

many many subs are hunting around Truk where my KB is parked (and spotted by his long range recon planes).

It seems that i'm playing a SUPER nerfed Japanese economy... more than 1000 HI factories seem to be missing in Japan .... 7100 in Stock Scen 2, 6070 in this scenario...oh my...[X(]

No, not nerfed. I beleive that they used Scen 1, the historical scenario as their basis. Scen 2 is a fantasy scenario where IJ is given quite a decent boost to allow her to be more competitive for a longer period of time. ie increase the likelihood that the game will go into '45 and the allies will actually get to use their Bolts and Stangs. A lot of Scen 1 games end in late '43 / early '44.

hi pax!

thanks, but if i'm not mistaken, the numbers u mentioned in Mike's AAR about stock scen 1 are pretty different from mine.
You say "Now let's look at HI, your industrial fuel consumer. You start with 6950 HI in your control as Japan. To that you have, within the same area as above, the opportunity to capture 1020 more. Let's assume though that this is captured at 50% damaged, thus 610 more before any repairs. Thus in total you have 7560 HI factories requiring 15120 fuel each day. "

So in my scen 30 i have nearly 900 HI less in Japan...which means 1800 supplies less every day!...add this to the refineries not producing 3000 more supplies and i end up having nearly 4000 supplies less every day (not considering the initial stocks of scenario 2 that were reduced back in this scenario).

This could be acceptable, but my concern is that, given that the OOB for this scenario is the same for scenario 2, i fear these 4000 supplies less can crack my whole economy when the late war scenario 2 OOB will start to appear in 1944... all those LCUs and air groups will eat a lot of supplies...and there's no way i can produce more of them, nor to avoid the appearence of those LCUs...

This is my only concern...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

It seems that i'm playing a SUPER nerfed Japanese economy... more than 1000 HI factories seem to be missing in Japan .... 7100 in Stock Scen 2, 6070 in this scenario...oh my...

Maybe DBB managed to get the japanese economy right, now that you have extra units to play with you have to actually manage the economy, aircraft & shipping production rather than go flat chat on everything.

Yes, i agree, but are we sure the managment you talk about is effectively doable? we're talking about 3800 less supplies every day, not talking about the initial stocks missing from scenario 2...

I think i'm doing a good job so far in economizing (sp!?) my economy expenditures but these numbers are scary...is this scenario economically balanced?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


hi pax!

thanks, but if i'm not mistaken, the numbers u mentioned in Mike's AAR about stock scen 1 are pretty different from mine.
You say "Now let's look at HI, your industrial fuel consumer. You start with 6950 HI in your control as Japan. To that you have, within the same area as above, the opportunity to capture 1020 more. Let's assume though that this is captured at 50% damaged, thus 610 more before any repairs. Thus in total you have 7560 HI factories requiring 15120 fuel each day. "

So in my scen 30 i have nearly 900 HI less in Japan...which means 1800 supplies less every day!...add this to the refineries not producing 3000 more supplies and i end up having nearly 4000 supplies less every day (not considering the initial stocks of scenario 2 that were reduced back in this scenario).

This could be acceptable, but my concern is that, given that the OOB for this scenario is the same for scenario 2, i fear these 4000 supplies less can crack my whole economy when the late war scenario 2 OOB will start to appear in 1944... all those LCUs and air groups will eat a lot of supplies...and there's no way i can produce more of them, nor to avoid the appearence of those LCUs...

This is my only concern...

Not sure we are on the same page. Let me try to clarify: "You start with 6950 HI in your control as Japan" this means Japan, Manchuria, Occupied China, Formosa, .... so if you fire up a new game of Scen 30, and then open up the industry screen, how many HI factories does it show?

EDIT: I don't have DBB30 , but DBB28 shows 13900 HI => 6950 HI factories at start for Japan. Not all in Japan, but for the IJ side as a whole.

[GreyJoy]

Oh, Oh, got it now... sorry Pax, i had mis-read your post! I thought you meant IN Japan and not AS Japan... apologise!
 
So, i was mistaken. It's simply that Japan has an economy of scen 1 and not of scen 2...i was already aware of that. No HI factories are missing.
 
I'm sorry to have created some panic among readers...[:(]
 
My doubts about the sustainability in the long run of a scenario 2 OOB with an economy of scenario 1 remain...but only time will tell if it's doable or not!
 
Thanks again for taking time to enlight me!"
 
 

[ny59giants]

DBB 30 was incorrect when GreyJoy started his game (same as mine), but was corrected later on. If you go to the Mod Section you can see what it was and how it has been corrected through some post of GJs and mine.

[witpqs]

Just adding this tidbit, but when they decided to stop producing supply from refineries didn't they make some sort of supply increase otherwise in spots where they felt it appropriate? Maybe daily supply or LI or something.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Just adding this tidbit, but when they decided to stop producing supply from refineries didn't they make some sort of supply increase otherwise in spots where they felt it appropriate? Maybe daily supply or LI or something.

Unfortunately they did it in october of 2012, after NY59Giants observations...while our version of scen 30 started in July...so economy of scen 1, stocks of fuel,oil, supplies etc if scen 1, OOB of scen 2 and no additional supply/fuel encrease

[jeffk3510]

Do you mind posting a ship loss screen?

Thanks Penguin Dude

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: JeffK

It seems that i'm playing a SUPER nerfed Japanese economy... more than 1000 HI factories seem to be missing in Japan .... 7100 in Stock Scen 2, 6070 in this scenario...oh my...

Maybe DBB managed to get the japanese economy right, now that you have extra units to play with you have to actually manage the economy, aircraft & shipping production rather than go flat chat on everything.

Yes, i agree, but are we sure the managment you talk about is effectively doable? we're talking about 3800 less supplies every day, not talking about the initial stocks missing from scenario 2...

I think i'm doing a good job so far in economizing (sp!?) my economy expenditures but these numbers are scary...is this scenario economically balanced?

So you work backwards, I have this economic ability so I can only afford X aircraft, X ships etc. Maybe you live with 100 A6M2 instead of 100 A6M3, or only build 75 of the better. Maybe you cant forward 4 CV but only 3.

It might be that you land offensive in China was unaffordable.

You have to live within your Budget, unlike a Government you cant print more notes.

(Could be why japan tried the blitz, they may have known they couldnt pay the bills if it went too long?)

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Do you mind posting a ship loss screen?

Thanks Penguin Dude

Hi Jeff! Everything's fine? Hope so!

Here u go...

The list is FOW affected obviously... i've just had confirmation that Wasp survived to the subs attack of some months ago (two fuel storage explosions!!) and i bet that only Ent went down during the last carrier battle. So i can confirm 1 CV, 2 CVEs and proably 7 BBs... the rest if FOW. While the cruisers list should be correct.

I've lost way too many DDs (only 2 Kagero are really worth thou) during the early stages of the war... but now i managed to accelerate a lot of them and i feel pretty safe on that sector.

Only 2 big tankers lost so far and 1 AO (which exploded for no reason in the middle of the ocean). The xAKs lost are mainly those devoted to CS convoys...nothing vital.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: JeffK

It seems that i'm playing a SUPER nerfed Japanese economy... more than 1000 HI factories seem to be missing in Japan .... 7100 in Stock Scen 2, 6070 in this scenario...oh my...

Maybe DBB managed to get the japanese economy right, now that you have extra units to play with you have to actually manage the economy, aircraft & shipping production rather than go flat chat on everything.

Yes, i agree, but are we sure the managment you talk about is effectively doable? we're talking about 3800 less supplies every day, not talking about the initial stocks missing from scenario 2...

I think i'm doing a good job so far in economizing (sp!?) my economy expenditures but these numbers are scary...is this scenario economically balanced?

So you work backwards, I have this economic ability so I can only afford X aircraft, X ships etc. Maybe you live with 100 A6M2 instead of 100 A6M3, or only build 75 of the better. Maybe you cant forward 4 CV but only 3.

It might be that you land offensive in China was unaffordable.

You have to live within your Budget, unlike a Government you cant print more notes.

(Could be why japan tried the blitz, they may have known they couldnt pay the bills if it went too long?)

I will live with my budget and i'm already saving everywhere i can (not building Shinano CV - which is a Tahio class here - for example - and avoiding building all those 1945 CVs), shutting down daily the plane and ships production and reducing to the very essential the use of ships (only in convoys and only when really needed).

It's a run against the resources... i repeat that my only concern is about the supply related to the LCUs...

[GreyJoy]

You see, here's how MY scenario 30 DBB looked like when we started...

[GreyJoy]

And here's how it should have looked like...

[GreyJoy]

Not much happening...that's why i'm not updating....very boring turns lately
 
April 8 1943....[>:]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

And here's how it should have looked like...

Wow! The difference is massive in supply, fuel and oil as well. You got shafted!

Kudos for sticking in it and trying to make it work. You definitely do well with challenges![:)]

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

You see, here's how MY scenario 30 DBB looked like when we started...

Thanks Erik!

It has been doable till now imho. Some ups and downs with the economy but, after the starting problems, we managed lately to stabilize the economy...now here's how it looks like:

As you can see, from dec 7 1941 to April 8 1943 we've lost 500k supplies, nearly 1,000,000 fuel and 2,000,000 oil.

Fuel isn't really a problem. levels are stable and rising a bit.
Supplies, on the other side, are concerning. Even if we managed to encrease them a bit in the last 3 months, levels never grow as fast as we'd like and the upcoming bombing campaigns by the allies will start to eat them up pretty fast.
Not sure what i should do to make them better...i've conquered nearly 600 HIs so far and done everything i could to minimize the supply expenditure (not building forts or infrastructures in Japan, Korea, China and Manchukoku for example... but these efforts aren't enough at all.

The R&D system hasn't really been a problem concerning supplies. Surely i've spent some good amount of them repairing factories, but not that much lately... 25,000 supplies/day simply seem to be able to maintain the current OOB... when all those LCUs will start popping up, they won't be enough

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

April 8 1943....[>:]

Hmm, thats what? 45-50 Hellcats already? [:D]

[obvert]

Chinese industry may help a bit. Once you aren't building any forts there and the troops aren't in continuous use fighting, then the supply drain could be lessened and China could be a supply + rather than a minus. Taking Chunking would be useful for this obviously.

[GreyJoy]

And here's the latest overview (with now all the working HIs and refineries)

As u can see we produce 26,000 supplies daily... but we spend, with rough calculations, nearly 25,000 every day... so we save very little...not more than 30/40,000 supplies monthly with the current situation...as soon as the 4Es will start to burn them it will be a downcliff