Banzais Don't Make Victories - Anachro (A) vs John 3rd (J) BTS 5.7

[Timotheus]

You can't imagine how HAPPY I am that this AAR is continuing.

Re: mod, my beginner player who never played a LONG AAR views....

John is a Japan Fan Boy. He buffed Japan to be as powerful as Star Wars Empire, and Yamamoto now wears black armour and breathes heavily. Also chokes people at a distance. Hirohito cackles, coughs and shoots blue flames from his hands.

It is a fantasy star wars Japan WW2 mod, made by a Japanese fanboy, what did y'all expect?

This made for a GREAT game so far, with Japan being able to hang (and then some!) to 1943, perhaps even to 1944 or... even 1945? What a CHALLENGE for an experienced Allied player!

John seems to me a guy who wants to move his gigantic Kido Butai with Kikka CV based jets on it from Japan to Hawaii to Africa and back for raiding, without worrying about pesky fuel, supplies, production and all that (stupid [:D] ) stuff Japanese player is saddled with (sarcasm implied, calm down)...

...and this mod gives him precisely that.

My view, John just buffed his navy to obscene levels, and took his time creating his star destroyers and tie fighters (and Liz bombers, cough). Then he decided that all these fantasy fleets will require some economic backing, and he winged it - John does not strike me as a player who even remotely likes the economic side of this game, he likes CV planes raiding Madagascar and sinking AKL ! (.... as do I).

I think John spent about 30-90 days on the navy side of this mod, and about a half-day on the economic side (my view, my inference).


Which all boils down to.... this AAR, which is fantastic!

Thanks Anachro for playing this fantasy star wars Japanese empire against Darth Yamamoto !


PS
It's Christmas, the crazy time at work and home, I have not had time to go to the toilet, much less play games, or even read the WITPAE AAR's, we will see if John dropped it AFTER January 10-ish.

Toodles, boomers [8D]

[Bearcat2]

I read AAR's mostly to see how different mods/scenario's play out. I appreciate your time and effort; Thank You

[Anachro]

Sep 5th, 1943

My British carriers (as well as American CVLs) arrive at Pearl today from the strikes and carrier battles in the Marshalls and this is a good thing as their planes are depleted and there is a significant lack of British carrier air replacements. CVs Formidable, Indomitable, and Victorious now sport almost 100% American air wings. My American carriers that conducted a second strike on Kwajalein are a few days away from port and will also replenish. BC Chesapeake goes into repair and refit at Pearl for a much needed upgrade and boost to her anti-aircraft capabilities. CVL Cowpens arrives at Balboa.



Once the carriers are fuels and repaired, they will be sent back to the South Pacific because there is still a lot of activity going on there. John has been bombing Manus ineffectively and we haven't offered any opposition but local AA for a few days. He has bombarded it with BBs to little effect, and he is operating lots of transports with BBs embedded; John might be landing additional troops there in the near future. However, we can get enough supply in through the air and SSTs in the immediate term to keep things afloat and our local AV on Manus is back to ~620. There is a lot of carrier a/c operating in an ASW capacity around Truk.

Giving John a pesky little surprise and punishing him for his failure to provide ample CAP support to his bombers, a CAP trap at Manus kills a number of Japanese bombers.

[Anachro]

I will be away for the next few days. The whole extended family is doing a big trip to Disneyworld prior to Christmas.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Anachro
CVs Formidable, Indomitable, and Victorious now sport almost 100% American air wings.

I realize that this mod has certain-ahem-Japanese OOB 'enhancements' that are fantasy. In my mind, that means that all's fair in love and war for this sort of thing. But has this come up in conversation with John or as an internal dialogue with you? Many HRs about not flying American airwings on Brit CVs (and vice-versa) are out there.

I'm not sure if this would have been physically possible either. As the torpedo and bomb loadouts are generic, it's possible in the game, but did the Brits have substantially different AV Gas storage, torpedo or bomb loading mechanics, flight deck parameters or arresting gear uses? I just don't know.

[Canoerebel]

That would be odd. Japan is free to explore all kinds of what-ifs but the Allies are not entrusted with the flexibility and ability to figure out that the RN could only produce 13 carrier fighters and might need some help from the Americans. "Hey, you guys with the robust economy, how about figuring out sometime in the next four years how to give us some fighters than can land on our decks?"

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Anachro
CVs Formidable, Indomitable, and Victorious now sport almost 100% American air wings.

I realize that this mod has certain-ahem-Japanese OOB 'enhancements' that are fantasy. In my mind, that means that all's fair in love and war for this sort of thing. But has this come up in conversation with John or as an internal dialogue with you? Many HRs about not flying American airwings on Brit CVs (and vice-versa) are out there.

I'm not sure if this would have been physically possible either. As the torpedo and bomb loadouts are generic, it's possible in the game, but did the Brits have substantially different AV Gas storage, torpedo or bomb loading mechanics, flight deck parameters or arresting gear uses? I just don't know.

The Brits did operate Corsairs. In fact they showed the Americans how to make a safer landing with the long-nosed, huge propped beast!

[Anachro]

I agree with the sentiments above from CR and, as BB mentions, the Britsh CVs did historically operate American a/c. Martlets are just a renamed Wildcat and British carriers operated Corsairs and Avengers.

That said, as mentioned before in this AAR, both by me and others who have played the mod, the mod does not produce enough replacement British naval aircraft, especially given that John has withdrawals turned off so that I have all the British carriers. As such, it's almost a necessity to use American air groups on British a/c until that is fixed. Currently I have 0 British naval fighters and bombers in the pools; and that's not because I lost a lot.

Of course, once that is hopefully fixed in future versions, I'd be more inclined to use British a/c. As for home rules, from the very beginning we decided to have almost none.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That would be odd. Japan is free to explore all kinds of what-ifs but the Allies are not entrusted with the flexibility and ability to figure out that the RN could only produce 13 carrier fighters and might need some help from the Americans. "Hey, you guys with the robust economy, how about figuring out sometime in the next four years how to give us some fighters than can land on our decks?"

My comments weren't about using American airframes that were subsequently adapted for use by British naval aviation. I get that they used a fair number of them. But with British aircrews and their armaments and their personnel, per my questions re: capabilities. I'm also not saying that it's 'unfair' for the Allied player to do so in this mod. I also wasn't aware of the negligible RN airframe replacement rate (13/month is patently absurd) for this mod, as I have only recently been paying attention to it.

Anachro: Your HR sentence answers my question. Thanks.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That would be odd. Japan is free to explore all kinds of what-ifs but the Allies are not entrusted with the flexibility and ability to figure out that the RN could only produce 13 carrier fighters and might need some help from the Americans. "Hey, you guys with the robust economy, how about figuring out sometime in the next four years how to give us some fighters than can land on our decks?"

My comments weren't about using American airframes that were subsequently adapted for use by British naval aviation. I get that they used a fair number of them. But with British aircrews and their armaments and their personnel, per my questions re: capabilities. I'm also not saying that it's 'unfair' for the Allied player to do so in this mod. I also wasn't aware of the negligible RN airframe replacement rate (13/month is patently absurd) for this mod, as I have only recently been paying attention to it.

Anachro: Your HR sentence answers my question. Thanks.

Didn't USS Robin operate some USN air groups? I thought even in game she is given a USN TB group with Avengers. Am I remembering this incorrectly?

Not that it matters. Both sides are also able to operate non-CV trained groups as well which always seems odd to me.

EDIT: This image shows some USN marked Wildcats on her. This is from a long article on her mission in the Pacific. It turns out there were actually all RN crews but trained in USN carrier procedures. Also, using the very heavy Avengers caused some problems as the arresting and lifting equipment wasn't set up for such a beast.

The Ship That Never Was

EDIT-2: Aha! Toward the end of the article I found this. There was a lot of switching flight groups around for this op in June 43.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]The Pacific force put out to sea on June 27 to cover amphibious troop landings on New Georgia in the Solomon Islands. Task Group 36.3 would take up a ‘covering’ station some 300 miles offshore in the Coral Sea, on hand in case the Japanese fleet attempted to intervene. In her role as CAP and fighter carrier, HMS Victorious was operating 60 Martlets and Wildcats.

USS Saratoga retained 12 Wildcats along with her 36 Dauntless and 20 USN Avengers. The 15 FAA Avengers operated from her deck for the whole operations.The carriers took no part in the actual invasion itself, but remained protectively on station for a full 28 days, as Task Group 36.3 under Rear Admiral F. P. Sherman.An extensive search was conducted for Japanese naval forces, with aircraft fanning out more than 200 miles from their base ships.

Commander Mitchell, USN, was much more positive at this point:

That whole operation was indicative of what you could do with fairly well trained outfits and free interchange of information. The British squadron liked to work on the American carrier, and our boys seemed to like the British carrier, probably because they could get a drink before dinner in the evening, or perhaps for the novelty.[/font]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That would be odd. Japan is free to explore all kinds of what-ifs but the Allies are not entrusted with the flexibility and ability to figure out that the RN could only produce 13 carrier fighters and might need some help from the Americans. "Hey, you guys with the robust economy, how about figuring out sometime in the next four years how to give us some fighters than can land on our decks?"

My comments weren't about using American airframes that were subsequently adapted for use by British naval aviation. I get that they used a fair number of them. But with British aircrews and their armaments and their personnel, per my questions re: capabilities. I'm also not saying that it's 'unfair' for the Allied player to do so in this mod. I also wasn't aware of the negligible RN airframe replacement rate (13/month is patently absurd) for this mod, as I have only recently been paying attention to it.

Anachro: Your HR sentence answers my question. Thanks.

Didn't USS Robin operate some USN air groups? I thought even in game she is given a USN TB group with Avengers. Am I remembering this incorrectly?

Not that it matters. Both sides are also able to operate non-CV trained groups as well which always seems odd to me.

EDIT: This image shows some USN marked Wildcats on her. This is from a long article on her mission in the Pacific. It turns out there were actually all RN crews but trained in USN carrier procedures. Also, using the very heavy Avengers caused some problems as the arresting and lifting equipment wasn't set up for such a beast.

The Ship That Never Was

EDIT-2: Aha! Toward the end of the article I found this. There was a lot of switching flight groups around for this op in June 43.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]The Pacific force put out to sea on June 27 to cover amphibious troop landings on New Georgia in the Solomon Islands. Task Group 36.3 would take up a ‘covering’ station some 300 miles offshore in the Coral Sea, on hand in case the Japanese fleet attempted to intervene. In her role as CAP and fighter carrier, HMS Victorious was operating 60 Martlets and Wildcats.

USS Saratoga retained 12 Wildcats along with her 36 Dauntless and 20 USN Avengers. The 15 FAA Avengers operated from her deck for the whole operations.The carriers took no part in the actual invasion itself, but remained protectively on station for a full 28 days, as Task Group 36.3 under Rear Admiral F. P. Sherman.An extensive search was conducted for Japanese naval forces, with aircraft fanning out more than 200 miles from their base ships.

Commander Mitchell, USN, was much more positive at this point:

That whole operation was indicative of what you could do with fairly well trained outfits and free interchange of information. The British squadron liked to work on the American carrier, and our boys seemed to like the British carrier, probably because they could get a drink before dinner in the evening, or perhaps for the novelty.[/font]

Very cool find Obvert! [&o]

[CaptBeefheart]

A great book I picked up at the time I met Obvert in London is Hobbs' "British Pacific Fleet." The RN did a very good job proving it could operate in a USN environment (SOPs, signals, codes, ordnance, etc.). I don't see a problem putting USMC squadrons on its decks. Here's the book.

Another factor: Had the RN carrier fleet remained in the theater throughout (i.e. "no withdrawals") and conducted a higher tempo of operations, they'd have received more lend-lease Wildcats, Corsairs, Hellcats and Avengers to make up for additional losses.

Cheers,
CB

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

Another factor: Had the RN carrier fleet remained in the theater throughout (i.e. "no withdrawals") and conducted a higher tempo of operations, they'd have received more lend-lease Wildcats, Corsairs, Hellcats and Avengers to make up for additional losses.

Good point.

[Bearcat2]

An example of British/American cooperation, my father's Group [47th] in North Africa switched from the Norden to a British bombsight[Mark IX-E], they then got RAF bombardiers in their flight crew.

Examples of switching aircraft:
On Dec 16th 1941, 97th SQ/47th Bomb grp began operating 8 LB-30's from Fresno that had been destined for Britain
Mid January, the entire 47th switched over to A-20's that had been destined for Russia from the Douglas plant in Los Angeles

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

A great book I picked up at the time I met Obvert in London is Hobbs' "British Pacific Fleet." The RN did a very good job proving it could operate in a USN environment (SOPs, signals, codes, ordnance, etc.). I don't see a problem putting USMC squadrons on its decks. Here's the book.

Another factor: Had the RN carrier fleet remained in the theater throughout (i.e. "no withdrawals") and conducted a higher tempo of operations, they'd have received more lend-lease Wildcats, Corsairs, Hellcats and Avengers to make up for additional losses.

Cheers,
CB

The book description mentions the post-war period. Did it say anything about the post-WWII battles in Malaya and Burma to keep the communist insurgencies out? Did the RN play a part in that?

[CaptBeefheart]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

A great book I picked up at the time I met Obvert in London is Hobbs' "British Pacific Fleet." The RN did a very good job proving it could operate in a USN environment (SOPs, signals, codes, ordnance, etc.). I don't see a problem putting USMC squadrons on its decks. Here's the book.

Another factor: Had the RN carrier fleet remained in the theater throughout (i.e. "no withdrawals") and conducted a higher tempo of operations, they'd have received more lend-lease Wildcats, Corsairs, Hellcats and Avengers to make up for additional losses.

Cheers,
CB

The book description mentions the post-war period. Did it say anything about the post-WWII battles in Malaya and Burma to keep the communist insurgencies out? Did the RN play a part in that?

There's a bit on the postwar RN in Hong Kong and ops off Korea but it's mostly about WW2. I don't recall the Malayan or Burmese insurgencies being mentioned at all.

EDIT: If I can remember, I'll check the index this evening.

Cheers,
CB

[Anachro]

Sep 6th, 1943

I'm back and a fun little turn happens in the mean time to which I'm not sure of the full meaning. John, as expected, launched a full sweep of Manus but finds nothing on CAP there, meanwhile he has minesweepers operating either in preparation for the landing of additional troops or in an attempt to extract the forces he currently has on the island. Not sure yet. We have level 3 forts on the island, 641 AV worth of troops, and while supply is low, it is positive and all our units are in good condition. If John does try to land additional divisions on the island, he'll be significantly over the stacking limit.



The real interesting part of the day is whats going on around the Marshalls. Several TFs make their appearance, most notably a transport force of some sort seemingly headed for Wake Island and the main KB, which appears just off of Eniwetok. Unfortunately, KB makes an appearance just as a number of fast xAKs pull into Wake to deliver much needed supply (though my xAKs are not spotted). That said, Wake has ~2k supply and a small garrison of a marine defense battalion as well as a couple nice CD units. We'll see what happens if John does land, but part of me suspects this might have been John trying to set a trap (juicy target at Wake with his carriers potentially hidden nearby), or he could simply be trying to chase my own carriers, which are now headed back to Pearl and currently just west of Johnston Island. For now my carriers will continue to Pearl and replenish, just like my British carriers and CVLs. We'll see what happens. If KB is over here, we can probably do some landings with our CVEs providing cover in Guinea.

Oh, and the fun part is a submarine puts two 21in. Mk 14 torpedoes into the CV Taikaku, an improved Shokaku-class carrier. No planes destroyed on the ground or sinking sounds though. Belt penetration, and damage below the waterline and to the engines is reported in both hits.

[Cheesesteak]

Great read, as always.

I’m curious why John isn’t keeping the KB closer to Truk. From there he could interfere with more of your machinations.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak

Great read, as always.

I’m curious why John isn’t keeping the KB closer to Truk. From there he could interfere with more of your machinations.

Cheesesteak, Eniwetok isn't very far from Truk. He can make Truk in 1.5 days sail. Did you mean West of Truk so as to interfere with operations around Manus?

[Anachro]

Sep 14th, 1943

Not much to report in the turns between now and then, but interestingly, as shown in my last update, John sent his KB east towards Eniwetok and then up towards Wake Island, and based on the various TFs seen throughout the turns, he was covering for his beleaguered damaged TFs as they made their way back to Japan. Fortunate for him, my CVs were in major need of some R&R in Pearl and were tied up at the docks by the time I realized this. Now, they are either on their way back to the SoPac or will be ready to move in 3 days time. While this was all going on, John came in with fast transports and such and extracted his divisions from Manus.



Taking advantage of John's decision to have KB loitering up by Wake Island, I sent an invasion fleet covered by CVEs and the all-fighter CV Illustrious to land at Lae. They have no successfully done so and seem to be in good position to take the hex as the most recent assault (the first one) knocked enemy forts down from 3 to 2. Unfortunately, I did not have enough APAs and AKAs in the area as a lot of them are being allocated for operations elsewhere. As such, we used xAKs for a large portion of the troops and a good number remain unloaded (though most of the combat troops and decent numbers of support have unloaded).

The danger now is that while this has been going on, John is clearly bringing his big surface guns down (and my own fast BBs are just exiting their refits in Australia today and the next 2-3 days). Moreover, he has extensive airpower as demonstrated by a minor one today that broke through CAP to put on 250kg SAP bomb into CL Phoenix (and causing little damage, thankfully). We have a number of task forces patrolling off the invasion beaches (DD, CA/CL/DD, CA/DD, and BC/CA/DD), but they are most likely outclassed by the coming Japanese armada. It might be time to flee with our transports left in the area back to Milne Bay at full speed (hitting the beaches briefly with bombardments).

Our forces on the ground should be sufficient for the job at the moment. John CAN land additional forces in a counter-landing; in fact, I suspect he might try this now that his KB is back at Truk. However, it might be good for me if he tries this. First, my carriers are back on the way tot he SoPac. Second, I have additional troops (a whole Marine division in fact) that are preppred for Lae, as well as additional AV I was not able to pickup from other bases.