Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

[Mgellis]

[ADDED DB v440]

Sorry, there was not much for Lebanon. This is what I could find out about some of the ships in their navy...

7 x Tracker Mk 2 Class (PB)

“The Attacker class (also referred to as the Tracker class) is a class of patrol boats. Formerly operated by the Royal Navy and the HM Customs, seven of the class are currently operated by the Lebanese Navy[1] and two by Lebanese Customs” –Wikipedia

(from Jane’s Fighting Ships)

301 Tripoli
302 Jounieh
303 Batroun
304 Byblos
305 Beirut
306 Sidon
307 Sarafand

Displacement: 38 tons
Dimensions: 20 m. x 5.2 m. x 1.5 m.
Main machinery: 12V-71TA diesels; 840 hp (616 kW) sustained; 2 shafts
Speed: 21 knots
Range: 650 naut. miles at 14 knots
Complement: 13 (one officer)
Guns: 3 x 12.7 mm. MG
Radars: Surface search: Racal Decca 1216; I-band

Service Dates: 1992-present

2 x French EDIC class

21 Sour
22 Damour
Service dates: 1985-present

Displacement: 670 tons
Dimensions: 59 m. x 12 m. x 1.3 m.
Main machinery: 2 x SACM MGO 175V12 M1 diesels; 1200 hp(m) (882 kW); 2 shafts
Speed: 10 knots
Range: 1800 naut. miles at 9 knots
Complement: 20 (2 officers)
Military lift: 69 troops; 11 trucks or 8 APCs
Guns: 2 x Oerlikon 20 mm. 1 x 81 mm. mortar; 2 x 12.7 mm MG; 1 x 7.62 mm MG
Radar: Navigational: Decca, I-band

25 x Inshore Patrol Craft (PBR)

Penant numbers: 401, 403-418; 420-427 (Janes says two were decommissined in 2002, so I suspect those were 402 and 419).

Displacement: 6 tons
Dimensions: 8.2 m. x 2.5 m. x 0.6 m
Main machinery: 2 x Sabre 212 diesels; 212 hp(m) (156 kW); 2 waterjets
Speed: 22 knots
Range: 154 naut. miles at 22 knots
Complement: 4
Guns: 3 x 5.56 mm MG

According to Janes, "M-boot type used by the US Army on German rivers....transferred in January, 1994"; 20 operational; 5 laid up

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Looking at this but there isn't much to go on for several of these. Even missing pennant numbers. Would it be possible to dig up more info? Thanks!

ORIGINAL: Mgellis

Lebanon's navy should be included...

Attacker-class patrol boat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacker-class_patrol_boat

"Lebanon is negotiating to acquire a new variant of CMN's venerable Combattante series of missile-armed FACs, dubbed the FS 56"
-- http://www.w54.biz/showthread.php?1588- ... such/page9

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... tions.html

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... -2012.html


"LCSC 42 Patrol Boat for Lebanese Navy"

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stor ... -delivery/
http://www.oroom.org/forum/lebanese-pol ... -base.html
http://www.mesp.me/2012/12/09/oil-gas-u ... s-lcsc-42/
http://www.shipbuildinghistory.com/hist ... rident.htm

[ckfinite]

ORIGINAL: emsoy

ckfinite, do you have more info on type and qty of mines carried?

It appears to be 100-150, though I can't find any other sources that say this

The mines are either boring moored contact mines, or a much more interesting sinking acoustic/magnetic mine BLOCKER/Sea Mine 2000. Here's the FDF on them.

[SASR]

[NEED MORE INFO]

The YJ-12 can now be carried on the Chinese SU-30MKK, J-16, and J-11 (Probably 2 per aircraft)

From : janes/com/article/47815/images-suggest-j-10bs-close-to-entering-chinese-service

Along with the J-10s, the PLAAF can rely on Su-30MKK and the Su-30-derived J-11 and J-16s to bring beyond visual range (BVR) and helmet-sighted AAMs to a fight, while they are also reportedly able to carry the YJ-12 air-launched anti-ship cruise missile.

Another source references the J-11B and Su-30MKK as being able to carry the YJ-12

From : warontherocks/com/2014/07/chinas-most-dangerous-missile-so-far/

"A realistic future scenario is an attack on two or more axes by two Chinese Flanker regiments (totaling 48 Su-30 MKK or J-11B Flanker fighter-bomber variants). These Flankers (roughly corresponding to U.S. Air Force F-15E fighter-bombers, capable of supersonic speeds, and possessing a combat radius of 1,500 kilometers) could each be armed with two to four YJ-12 ASCMs."

Another Source which inlcudes the J-15 as also being able to carry the YJ-12

From : wantchinatimes/com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=2 /0 /1 /3 /1 /1 /2 /6 /0 /0 /0 /0 /6 /2&cid=1101

The YJ-12 was originally designed to be used against multiple targets including US aircraft carriers with a combat range of 500 kilometers and can be carried by various platforms such as bombers like the H-6 and JH-7, fighter jets such as the J-11B, J-15, J-16 and Su-30MKK

[ComDev]

ORIGINAL: Overlord

ORIGINAL: Overlord

Helicopter carrier Moskva has two SAN-3 magazines with 44 goblets each... Wiki and old harpoon says 22 missiles per launcher?


Also I made a request on the CWDB thread RE: Argentine A4 loadouts...do I need to put that here as well?

Bump as it still shows the 2 x44 missles...when it should be 2 x 22 missles.

thx

44 is actually correct, they had double ring mags (on top of each other) with vertical elevators. Got cut-away showing this [8D] Massive system!

Russian guys, feel free to chime in with a tech drawing or two.

Thanks!

[Triode]

ORIGINAL: emsoy


44 is actually correct, they had double ring mags (on top of each other) with vertical elevators. Got cut-away showing this [8D] Massive system!

Russian guys, feel free to chime in with a tech drawing or two.

Thanks!

This cut-aways? :
http://and-kin2008.narod.ru/drawingpr1123.html

in this cut-aways there is one thing missing, quantity of missile in one reloading ring :
http://i.imgur.com/LKrFYVU.jpg

as you can see there is 6 missiles in one reloading ring and four rings so, 44 is actually incorrect number of missiles [:)]

it is 6x4=24 for one level mag, 2x24=48 for both level and 2x48=96 between two 4K60 on ship

[TheOriginalOverlord]

ORIGINAL: Triode

ORIGINAL: emsoy


44 is actually correct, they had double ring mags (on top of each other) with vertical elevators. Got cut-away showing this [8D] Massive system!

Russian guys, feel free to chime in with a tech drawing or two.

Thanks!

This cut-aways? :
http://and-kin2008.narod.ru/drawingpr1123.html

in this cut-aways there is one thing missing, quantity of missile in one reloading ring :
http://i.imgur.com/LKrFYVU.jpg

as you can see there is 6 missiles in one reloading ring and four rings so, 44 is actually incorrect number of missiles [:)]

it is 6x4=24 for one level mag, 2x24=48 for both level and 2x48=96 between two 4K60 on ship

I bow to your judgement! I was just reading my old Harpoon paper rules and looking at wiki..thats why I asked...

Another question..

Given the size of the large flight deck can anything be done about the 5x1 small helo pads? It restricts you from basing or emergency landing larger helos (like Hinds) on that spacious deck! Hinds are mediums and only a few meters larger rotor diameter...seems like you could land them...I haven't been able to find the elevator dimensions to see if they could go below. But seem like you could use the large deck. Can 2 small helo land on 1 large pad? Not sure how the ratio of helo sizes work.

Thanks again!

[ComDev]

ORIGINAL: Triode

ORIGINAL: emsoy


44 is actually correct, they had double ring mags (on top of each other) with vertical elevators. Got cut-away showing this [8D] Massive system!

Russian guys, feel free to chime in with a tech drawing or two.

Thanks!

This cut-aways? :
http://and-kin2008.narod.ru/drawingpr1123.html

in this cut-aways there is one thing missing, quantity of missile in one reloading ring :
http://i.imgur.com/LKrFYVU.jpg

as you can see there is 6 missiles in one reloading ring and four rings so, 44 is actually incorrect number of missiles [:)]

it is 6x4=24 for one level mag, 2x24=48 for both level and 2x48=96 between two 4K60 on ship

Thanks! [&o]

I believe the overall capacity is 48 per mount in the database, 96 total per ship. There are also a few training rounds etc in the mags that use up space and reduces the number of war rounds carried.

[ComDev]

ORIGINAL: SASR

The YJ-12 can now be carried on the Chinese SU-30MKK, J-16, and J-11 (Probably 2 per aircraft)

From : janes/com/article/47815/images-suggest-j-10bs-close-to-entering-chinese-service

Along with the J-10s, the PLAAF can rely on Su-30MKK and the Su-30-derived J-11 and J-16s to bring beyond visual range (BVR) and helmet-sighted AAMs to a fight, while they are also reportedly able to carry the YJ-12 air-launched anti-ship cruise missile.

Another source references the J-11B and Su-30MKK as being able to carry the YJ-12

From : warontherocks/com/2014/07/chinas-most-dangerous-missile-so-far/

"A realistic future scenario is an attack on two or more axes by two Chinese Flanker regiments (totaling 48 Su-30 MKK or J-11B Flanker fighter-bomber variants). These Flankers (roughly corresponding to U.S. Air Force F-15E fighter-bombers, capable of supersonic speeds, and possessing a combat radius of 1,500 kilometers) could each be armed with two to four YJ-12 ASCMs."

Another Source which inlcudes the J-15 as also being able to carry the YJ-12

From : wantchinatimes/com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=2 /0 /1 /3 /1 /1 /2 /6 /0 /0 /0 /0 /6 /2&cid=1101

The YJ-12 was originally designed to be used against multiple targets including US aircraft carriers with a combat range of 500 kilometers and can be carried by various platforms such as bombers like the H-6 and JH-7, fighter jets such as the J-11B, J-15, J-16 and Su-30MKK

Thanks! Does anyone have a photo of the a/c actually carrying the YJ-12 missile? That would be very (very very!) helpful. I have a sneaking suspicion that the weapon is not nearly as operational as some sources would want us to believe

[Pancor]

[ADDED DB v440]

Hello can i request a unit

its the Iron Dome

the infamous missile air defense on Israel

i want to post about the specification but sorry i cant post any link

thank you

[Hongjian]

[UPDATED DB v440]

Hi, I'd like to lobby for a slight DB change concerning Chinese Flankers (J-11 series).

From all the recent pictures about new-built Chinese Flankers we could see that they are all equipped with Chinese WS-10, indicating that the PLAAF is finally satisfied with the reliability of this formerly issue plagued turbofan. Recent reports indicated that the service-life and the spool-up issues were resolved for some years, and that the newest batch of WS-10 are just as reliable as the imported Russian AL-31F of the initial batch of Su-27SK/J-11.

The imfamous intercept of a US P-8A Poseidon off the coast of Hainan last year, also offered us some indication about the reliability of the current batch of WS-10:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHYGM4z0CIY

The intercepting plane was a J-11BH in service to the Land-based Naval Aviation (PLANAF) and was equipped with a pair of WS-10s. The J-11BH not only intercepted the P-8A, but actually performed a very dangerous barrel roll over the Poseidon, after multiple encounters as close as 20 feet. These manoeuvers would be impossible with an engine that has reliability, thrust and spool-up lag issues, as suggested by previous reports. And the very fact that the PLANAF authorized a WS-10 equipped Flanker to go out for such a politically sensitive intercept-mission is another indication to the maturing reliability of the engine: Because some years before, we didnt even see WS-10 equipped J-11B Flankers during any PLAAF/PLANAF excercises, let alone on air-patrol off China's coast.
Now, even new prototype-Flankers like the J-16 or J-11D fly with WS-10s right off the bat. Unthinkable before, when the WS-10 indeed was a "whack engine" as stated in the DB.

Hence, I suggest that the DB is added with a "J-11B (Su-27SK Flanker-Copy), mature block WS-10, 2012", with the agility moved up from 4 to 4.5, like the Russian Su-27 and the imported AL-31F powered Su-27SK/J-11.

After all, the J-16 (DB says "Su-30MK2 Copy", but actually it is a development based on the Su-27UBK - not the Su-30; Note different tips of the vertical stabilizers!) already flies with late batch WS-10s and has an Agility rating of 4.5 (dunno if that was an oversight).

Also, the newest J-11D (J-11B with shortened radome housing an AESA and with more composites on the airframe) should also lose its "whack engine" tag/agility malus, as it is similiarily flying with late-batch and matured WS-10s.

Thank you.

[SASR]

[UPDATED DB v440]

The GBU-39 SDB Range needs to be increased to 60 miles I think. One Airforce test even hit targets "over 70 nautical miles" but that was at 50,00 feet and at Mach 1.72.But most sources site the normal range at around 60 miles.

From : arc/aiaa/org/doi/abs/1 /0 /2 /5 /1 /4/6 /2 /0 /1 /1- /6 /6 /6 /8

"In addition to the first ever supersonic delivery of SDB, notable achievements include releases from up to 50,000 feet and Mach 1.72 against targets over 70 nautical miles down range"

From : historywarsweapons/com/gbu-39-sdb/

" Fitted with folding glide wings and steerable fins, the GBU-39 has a maximum range of 70 miles (115 km) from the point it is dropped to the target to be hit."

From : defense-update/com/products/s/sdb.htm

"With the introduction of SDB I to the Air Force inventory, the Strike Eagle aircrews also benefit from increased weapon employment range. SDB I has a standoff range of up to 60 nautical miles in front of the aircraft, 40 miles to the left and right of the aircraft and can even turn around and attack targets behind the aircraft."

From : designation-systems/net/dusrm/app5/sdb.html

"The SDB uses flip-out diamond wings to achieve a stand-off range of more than 110 km (60 nm) for high-altitude drops."

From : globalsecurity/org/military/systems/munitions/sdb.htm

"A small diameter bomb can be used in adverse weather and has a standoff range of more than 60 nautical miles"

From : ausairpower/net/APA-SDB.html

"The glide wings provide a quoted delivery range of around 60 nautical miles for a high altitude release."

[ComDev]

BUMP! [:D]

Thanks!

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Anyone got updated info on the Iranian Shkval knock-off, the Hoot? It was supposed to be fired from small super-fast boats. Have these entered service yet?

Thanks!

[Sardaukar]

[FIXED DB v440]

Very minor issue, but Finnish F-18Ds seem to have Air-to Air loadout of AIM-120B in 2013 and 2015 upgrades. Which is bit wrong, since they have AIM-120C-7 in strike configurations in database. F-18Cs have it OK.

[Mgellis]

[ADDED DB v440]

Found some information for the Syrian navy that I hope will be useful...

(All information from Jane's Fighting Ships)

Petya III (Project 159A)

Dates: 1975-present
Pennants: 1-508 (ex-12); 2-508 Al Hirasa (ex-14)
Displacement: 950 tons standard; 1,180 tons full load
Dimensions: 81.8 m. x 9.1 m. x 2.9 m
Main machinery: CODAG; 2 gas turbines, 30,000 hp(m) (22MW); 1 Type 61V3 diesel; 5,400 hp(m) (3.97 MW) ustained (centre shaft); 3 shafts
Speed: 32 knots
Range: 4,780 naut miles at 10 knots; 450 naut miles at 29 knots
Complement: 98 (8 officers)
Guns: 4 x 3-inch AK 726 (2 twin)
Torpedoes 3 x 21-inch (533 mm) tubes (1 triple); SAET-60 is typical torpedo used
A/S mortars: 4 RBU 2500 16-tubed trainable
Depth charges: 2 racks
Mines: Can carry 22
Radars: Surface search: Slim Net, E/F-band; Navigation: Don 2; I band; Fire Control: Hawk Screech; I- band; IFF High Pole B. 2 Square Head.
Sonars: Herkules; hull-mounted; active search and attack; high frequency


Polnochny B Class (Project 771) (LSM)

Dates of operation: 1984-present
Pennant numbers: 1-114, 2-114, and 3-114
Displacement: 760 tons standard; 834 tons full load
Dimensions: 75 m x 9.6 m. x 2.3 m
Main machinery: 2 Kolomna Type 40-D diesels; 4400 hp(m) (3.2 MW) sustained; 2 shafts
Speed: 19 knots
Range: 1,500 naut. miles at 15 knots
Complement: 40
Military lift: 180 troops; 350 tons cargo
Guns: 4 x 30mm/65 (2 twin); 2 x 140 mm rocket launchers, 18 barrels per launcher
Radars: Surface search; Spin Trough; I-band
Fire control: Drum Tilt; H/I-band


Sonya (Yakhont) (Project 12650) MHC

Dates of operation: 1986-present
Pennant numbers: 532
Displacement: 450 tons full load
Dimensions: 48 m. x 8.8 m. x 2 m.
Main Machinery: 2 Kolomna Type 9-D-8 diesels; 2000 hp(m) (1.47 MW) sustained; 2 shafts
Speed: 15 knots
Range: 3,000 naut miles at 10 knots
Complement: 43 (5 officers)
Missiles 2 quad SA-N-5 launchers
Guns 2 30mm/65 AK 630 (30mm/65) (twin mount); 2 25mm/80 (twin mount)
Mines: 8
Radars: Surface search: Don 2 or Kivach or Nayada: I-band
IFF: 2 Square Head. High Pole B.
Sonsars: MG 69/79; hull-mounted; active minehunting; high frequency
Notes: Wooden hull with GRP sheath


Zhuk (Grif) (Project 1400M) PB

Dates of operation: 1981-present
Pennant numbers: 1-8, 2-8, 3-8, 4-8, 5-8, 6-8, 7-8, 8-8
Displacement: 39 tons full load
Dimensions: 24 m x 5 m x 1.2 m
Main machinery: 2 Type M 401B diesels; 2200 hp(m) (1.6 MW) sustained; 2 shafts
Speed: 30 knots
Range: 1,100 naut miles at 15 knots
Complement: 11 (3 officers)
Guns: 4 x 14.5 mm machine guns (2 twin mounts)
Radars: Surface search; Spin Trough; I-band

I hope this is helpful.

[SASR]

ORIGINAL: emsoy
Thanks! Does anyone have a photo of the a/c actually carrying the YJ-12 missile? That would be very (very very!) helpful. I have a sneaking suspicion that the weapon is not nearly as operational as some sources would want us to believe

Only photo I could find is what appears to be a Chinese Flanker variant (J-11? J-15? SU-30MKK? J-16?) carrying the YJ-12, Or possibly YJ-91. It is very hard to tell the difference between the two currently.



I hope this helps

[ComDev]

Thanks! But that's the YJ-91, the YJ-12 is much larger and has squared intakes [8D]

[ComDev]

ORIGINAL: emsoy

BUMP! [:D]

Thanks!

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Anyone got updated info on the Iranian Shkval knock-off, the Hoot? It was supposed to be fired from small super-fast boats. Have these entered service yet?

Thanks!

Nothing? [8D] That's probably because the Hoot is indeed a hoot. Closing the ticket.

[SASR]

Got a new loadout for #57 - Su-33 Flanker D



By the Picture :

1 x Kh-61 Yakhont (Air Launched Version of the P-800) or Kh-41 Moskit (Air Launched version of the P-270)

DECM Pods on the wingtips

2 x R-73M

2 x AA-10 Alamo-C

[butch4343]

[UPDATED DB v440]

Can I make some suggestions for the DB3000 Database.

I start the easy stuff first, then post seperates for the others

Brimstone Anti Armour Weapons

They were were origionaly to be employed to swarm soviet tank columns, launched in multiples, and left to find there own targets using a MMWR seeker. They should have a BOL capabilty but dont in CMANO.

ASRAAM

The same as brimstone, they have a lock on after launch capabilty , so a BOL capabilty again would be good.

Cheers

[butch4343]

[UPDATED NIMROD, JAGUAR INFO IS INCORRECT, NEED INFO ON HARRIER]

Loadouts

Nimrod MR4A

Nimrod was slated to integrate storm shadow capibilty by 2018, before the aircraft was cancelled, the standard load out was 4. A max effort loadout was to be 6. Could this be added to the loadout for the MR4A?

Jaguar Loadouts

In the anti-armour loadouts , showing 2 BL or RBL-755 per aircraft, this seems light when the aircraft carried equally 4x1000lb bombs or 4x CBU-87 operationaly during desert storm in 1991. These were carried on tandem adaptors on the inboards and a centre line tank.

Could a hypoteical load out be considered for the Jaguar, on the premisies that had the CW continued the aircraft would have been fitted for brimstone, so perhaps 6 weapons on the inboards and a centre line tank. ASRAAM would have also replaced the AIM9s on the overwing stations.

Harrier GR3

Again the anti armour loads seem light, the aircraft would have operated well forward so the need for external tanks would have been almost nil. So I would propose a heavier set of load outs of:

Anti Armour

Either 4 x 68mm SNEB pods or 5 BL755 CBU

Long Range Anti Armour

2 External Tanks and 2 SNEB Pods or 3 BL-755 CBU

A GP Loadout would also be similar substituing the BL775 for 1000lb bombs/ retarded bombs.

Not sure how easy it would be to add these, so heres hoping