Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

[Vici Supreme]

[UPDATED DB v440]

Ok, one last one for today! The SIPRI Arms Transfer Database claims that between 2007 and 2008 Chile received 200 Sea Wolf Blk II missiles, most likely for their Type 23 frigates. Please consider making the necessary changes to #949 - FF 05 Almirante Cochrane [Type 23] in the DB.

Supreme

[Hongjian]

quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy
Thanks! Does anyone have a photo of the a/c actually carrying the YJ-12 missile? That would be very (very very!) helpful. I have a sneaking suspicion that the weapon is not nearly as operational as some sources would want us to believe

There are only a few pictures available of the YJ-12 carried by aircrafts. And those are carried by the H-6G anti-ship bomber.

There are some photos of the H-6G carrying it while on the ground, but none with it inflight.
But JASDF intercepts of Chinese H-6G flights confirmed that the YJ-12 are in service, even if not showing the missiles themselves. We know this, because the YJ-12 needs a special pylon that is easily recognizable due to its length and is exclusively in use for the YJ-12 and no other air-launched munition in PLAAF/PLANAF arsenal.

The famous photo which has first confirmed the YJ-12 being carried by the H-6G (this picture also confirms the "long-pylon"):





If you have good eyes, you will see the YJ-12's characteristic X-fins over the truck:



And several instance of H-6Gs spotted with YJ-12 exclusive "long-pylons". First two photos taken by JASDF fighter jets, intercepting them whilst flying through the Miyako-strait.



Most recent intercept; released today by JASDF:


Another picture of a H-6G with "long pylons" for the YJ-12:

[ComDev]

Wonderful, thanks!

How many missiles do you think the bomber an carry? Is the weapon too heavy for carrying 4 of these?

[Hydrolek]

[ADDED DB v440]

Alenia Aermacchi has also delivered M346s to Singapore and Israel (the type is known as the Lavi in Israel) and has begun construction of eight aircraft for Poland, with the first set due for delivery in November. The type is also in the running for the U.S. Air Force’s T-X advanced trainer requirement.
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... acchi-m346

[Hongjian]

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Wonderful, thanks!

How many missiles do you think the bomber an carry? Is the weapon too heavy for carrying 4 of these?

Hard to say, because the PLAAF rarely carried full load during excercises.

And there are no reliable estimates for the YJ-12's weight, but pretty good ones for its dimensions (due to that first H-6G photo).

I'm a bit cautious about the 3 ton weight of that missile and the dimensions quoted in the DB, as it should be actually smaller than the 2.2-2.5 ton air-launched BrahMos ( 6,3 meters long, diameter below 756mm YJ-12 vs 8.4 m length, Diameter 670mm PJ-10 BrahMos).

I'd estimate the weight to be somehwat lighter than the air-launched Brahmos, and hence the H-6G would potentially be able to load four of them, just as it was able to load four pretty big and heavy 2.4 tonne class KD-63 LACMs.

[Vici Supreme]

[FIXED IN DB v440]

I noticed that the aircraft agility for Su-30 Flankers is always 4,5 and 4,9 for those with canards except the Russian and Malaysian Su-30. Is there a reason for this or has this been overlooked at the time the unit was created? I'm trying to figure out what makes the difference here. I'd really like to know on what these specifications are based on. If there is no deeper reason in this, could you make following adjustments to the bellow listed DB platforms?

All of them have forward canards and thrust vectoring engines. For instance, the Russian Su-30SM has the newest thrust vectoring engines of all Flankers around.

#3819 - Su-30SM Flanker G -- Russia (Air Force)

- Raise Fighter Generation / Agility to 4,9

#1699, #3783 - Su-30MKM Flanker G -- Malaysia (Air Force)

- Raise Fighter Generation / Agility to 4,9
- Replace current engines with 2x AL-31FP (http://www.irkut.com/products/18/238/, http://www.uk-odk.ru/eng/products/military_aviation/al31f/)

Not a Su-30 but part of the Flanker family is the Su-35 which currently is rated with 4,5 agility in the DB. The aircraft of course is not equipped with canards but having the same agility as the Su-27 from Soviet times (which btw did not had thrust vectoring) seems a bit odd to me. I mean, the aircraft at least features a pair of new engines that appear to work properly and Youtube footage from Paris Air Show or such indeed shows the fighter has increased maneuverability. Basically, I'd like to suggest making adjustments here too. However, that's just my thoughts...

#2689, #4232 - Su-35S Flanker -- Russia (Air Force)

- Raise Fighter Generation / Agility to 4,9

Thanks!

[ComDev]

ORIGINAL: Hongjian

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Wonderful, thanks!

How many missiles do you think the bomber an carry? Is the weapon too heavy for carrying 4 of these?

Hard to say, because the PLAAF rarely carried full load during excercises.

And there are no reliable estimates for the YJ-12's weight, but pretty good ones for its dimensions (due to that first H-6G photo).

I'm a bit cautious about the 3 ton weight of that missile and the dimensions quoted in the DB, as it should be actually smaller than the 2.2-2.5 ton air-launched BrahMos ( 6,3 meters long, diameter below 756mm YJ-12 vs 8.4 m length, Diameter 670mm PJ-10 BrahMos).

I'd estimate the weight to be somehwat lighter than the air-launched Brahmos, and hence the H-6G would potentially be able to load four of them, just as it was able to load four pretty big and heavy 2.4 tonne class KD-63 LACMs.

Thanks, will leave the loadouts unchanged then [8D]

[ComDev]

Here's another BUMP for the experts out there [8D]

I need detailed stats on the Norwegian N 51 Borgen controlled minefield tender. All I've found so far are two black-and-white photos. No stats at all.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[Mgellis]

[ADDED DB v440]

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Here's another BUMP for the experts out there [8D]

I need detailed stats on the Norwegian N 51 Borgen controlled minefield tender. All I've found so far are two black-and-white photos. No stats at all.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Janes Fighting Ships says...

N 51 Borgen

Operational Dates: 1961-??? (not sure when she was decomissioned; she is listed in the 91-92 JFS but not in the 04-05 JFS)

Displacement: 282 tons standard

Dimensions: 31.2 m x 8 m. x 3.4 m

Main machinery: 2 General Motors 3-71 diesels; 660 bhp; 2 Voith-Scheider propellers

Speed: 9 knots

Range: ??? (nothing listed, but a slightly larger minesweeper, ex-Adjutant class, 384 tons full load, with similar GM engines, lists a speed of 13.5 knots and a range of 2,500 miles at 10 knots, so maybe something like 2,000 miles at 8 knots might be plausible for the Borgen???)

Guns: 1 Rheinmetall 20mm (appears in picture in 89-90 JFS to be on the bow)

Mines: 2 rails

Radar: Navigation; I-band

Note: Has two derricks used for mine placement

I hope this helps.

[Pancor]

[ADDED DB v440]

Hello
can you add the Tunguska M1 for the Russian army

it features the newer 9M311-M1 Missile and the 2A38M Autocannon along with the 2S6M1 combat vehicle on a GM-5975 chassis plus its radar is the 1RL144M Hot shot
i think it is entered service in 2003

thank you

[SASR]

New info on the LCS Anti-submarine module

The ASW Module for LCS will include the new CAPTAS-4 Variable Depth Sonar from Thales

From : https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwid ... epth-sonar

"CAPTAS-4 selected by the US Navy for ADM contract on LCS programme."

CAPTAS-4 Information - https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/defau ... ptas-4.pdf

From : http://news.usni.org/2015/07/30/lcs-ant ... tion-study

"The mission package includes a Variable-Depth Sonar – the Navy chose the Thales UK Sonar 2087, the same VDS used on the Royal Navy’s Type 23 frigate "

The initial deployment date was set a 2016 but because of sequestration and weight problems this will most likely get pushed back to 2017

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/AS/AS00/ ... 130918.pdf

"An ASW mission package that will be fielded on LCS in 2016, which increases surface ship ASW capacity and delivers improved capability by using a MFTA in combination with a variable depth sonar (VDS). "

So far I can't find the official US military designation for it yet.

[ComDev]

Thanks, much appreciated!! Have added the boat to the database [:D]

ORIGINAL: Mgellis

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Here's another BUMP for the experts out there [8D]

I need detailed stats on the Norwegian N 51 Borgen controlled minefield tender. All I've found so far are two black-and-white photos. No stats at all.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Janes Fighting Ships says...

N 51 Borgen

Operational Dates: 1961-??? (not sure when she was decomissioned; she is listed in the 91-92 JFS but not in the 04-05 JFS)

Displacement: 282 tons standard

Dimensions: 31.2 m x 8 m. x 3.4 m

Main machinery: 2 General Motors 3-71 diesels; 660 bhp; 2 Voith-Scheider propellers

Speed: 9 knots

Range: ??? (nothing listed, but a slightly larger minesweeper, ex-Adjutant class, 384 tons full load, with similar GM engines, lists a speed of 13.5 knots and a range of 2,500 miles at 10 knots, so maybe something like 2,000 miles at 8 knots might be plausible for the Borgen???)

Guns: 1 Rheinmetall 20mm (appears in picture in 89-90 JFS to be on the bow)

Mines: 2 rails

Radar: Navigation; I-band

Note: Has two derricks used for mine placement

I hope this helps.

[ComDev]

Thanks for the heads-up! Anyone know else know about the designation?

ORIGINAL: SASR

New info on the LCS Anti-submarine module

The ASW Module for LCS will include the new CAPTAS-4 Variable Depth Sonar from Thales

From : https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwid ... epth-sonar

"CAPTAS-4 selected by the US Navy for ADM contract on LCS programme."

CAPTAS-4 Information - https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/defau ... ptas-4.pdf

From : http://news.usni.org/2015/07/30/lcs-ant ... tion-study

"The mission package includes a Variable-Depth Sonar – the Navy chose the Thales UK Sonar 2087, the same VDS used on the Royal Navy’s Type 23 frigate "

The initial deployment date was set a 2016 but because of sequestration and weight problems this will most likely get pushed back to 2017

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/AS/AS00/ ... 130918.pdf

"An ASW mission package that will be fielded on LCS in 2016, which increases surface ship ASW capacity and delivers improved capability by using a MFTA in combination with a variable depth sonar (VDS). "

So far I can't find the official US military designation for it yet.

[Pancor]

[FIXED DB v 440]

Hello

It seems the Tu-142 Bear has some missing sensor such as:

The Tu-142M Bear F Mod.2 is missing its Leninets Korshun surface search radar and the the Visla-2 towed MAD sensor

Tu-142MK Bear F Mod.3 added the improved Korshun-K surface radar

The Tu-142MZ Bear F Mod.4 added the upgrade Korshun-KN-N surface search radar and the NK-12MP engines

more specs are as here
globalsecurity/military/world/russia/tu-142-var
ausairpower/APA-Bear

and this is in russian
militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-512.html

thank you

[orca]

[ADDED DB v440]

Can you add a hypothetical version of the Queen Elizabeth that is the same as the real ship but with catapults instead of ski jump?

Or maybe just call it a generic heavy CATOBAR carrier.

[Mgellis]

Chile's navy is fairly well-represented in the database, but this is a large class of patrol boats (Chile operates 18 of them) that would be worth adding, I think. Basically, these are just coast guard cutters, fairly small ones, too, but they might play a role in a scenario involving Chilean fisheries, or a maritime border dispute with Argentina, etc.

(Information from Jane's Fighting Ships)

Protector-class WPB
Pennant numbers: LEP 1603 and LEP 1603; LSG 1609 through LSG 1624; Janes simply says “there are minor differences between LEP 1603-4 and the rest” so I’m guessing the two “classes” are, for game purposes, pretty much identical
Displacement: 120 tons full load
Dimensions: 33.1 m x 6.6 m x 2 m.
Machinery: 2 MTU MDEC 2,000 diesels; 5,200 hp(m); 2 shafts
Speed: 22 knots
Range: 800 naut. miles at 16 knots
Complement: 10 (2 officers)
Guns 1 x 12.7 mm MG (weapon appears to be mounted on the bow)
Radar: Navigation: Raytheon R-84; I-band
Service dates: 1989-present

Thanks for considering this one.

[Pancor]

Hello

can you add the Su-39 (Su-25TM) as a hypothetical unit

thanks

[DeltaIV]

ORIGINAL: Pancor

FIXED DB v 440
The Tu-142MZ Bear F Mod.4 added the upgrade Korshun-KN-N surface search radar and the NK-12MP engines

Just an interesting note, it also carried Amethyst LIDAR suite, as documented in several papers and also in The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998.

3.4.2 Amethyst – a Russian example
Soviet scientists researched LIDAR technology parallel to their Western counterparts, and
managed to place a system, although fragile, on some of their Bear F Mod 4 ASW aircraft.
The system is called “Amethyst”, and uses a blue-green CO 2 laser. It scans from side to side
as the aircraft moves forward covering a 100m wide swath. The pilot must maintain constant
altitude and speed (100m altitude, 100m/sec = 200 knots speed), and the system has to be shut
down whenever the aircraft turns.

Each line in the display represents one scan, and deviates up and down to indicate
range, in effect depth. The lines are scaled one meter apart, and very high projections or deep
troughs extend over adjacent lines creating a shadow effect. The back-and-forth scan forms a
green line on a standard Russian 525-line screen, measuring 20x25 cm, with a frame rate of
100Hz. Because the screen is relatively short, the image is compressed vertically, and is
somewhat distorted toward the sides because the beam slants so deeply there. The system is
calibrated to 50m depth, but it is said to be ineffective below 30m. The system requires
interpretation by the operator, which in many cases can be difficult. Some operators never
learn to interpret, but others do in a relatively short amount of time.

The limitations on aircraft motion suggest that the system is mechanically range-gated,
probably by a disk rotating in front of the receiver. The sensitivity of the receiver dictates that
the aircraft must fly steady with no turns, as the change in angles and ranges to the sea surface
most likely will burn out the receiving equipment. The system processes only one pulse at a
time, and hence the strict limitations to aircraft speed as well. If the aircraft moves too
quickly, part of one line is inserted into the next (Friedman 1997:663).
Due to the strict limitations and the fact that the system has been installed on a Bear F
and not the Russian primary ASW Aircraft, Il-38 May, one can speculate that the Russian
armed forces has not pursued the technology further after the implementation of the
Amethyst.

While interesting, this is probably not really worth implementing though.

[xavierv]

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Wonderful, thanks!

How many missiles do you think the bomber an carry? Is the weapon too heavy for carrying 4 of these?

YJ-12

A bit more on YJ-12
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... omber.html

You may want to check about the JH-7B capability too

---------------------
Would be nice to add these small patrol boats to the DB time permitting:
The MkVI http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=2938
and the CCM Mk1 http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=2234

[Rudd]

HSV-2 now flying UAE flag.
http://www.janes.com/article/53274/hsv- ... p-off-aden
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/de ... el:SWIFT_1