THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J)

[Rio Bravo]

[center]Question for The War College Members

How Reliable Is This?

October 6, 1943 Sighting of Japanese Carriers[/center]


History


1.) El Lobo's Carriers attacked the Allied Invasion Fleet on October 4th and 5th of 1943.

2.) Combat Reports indicate that El Lobo's Carrier Aircraft have taken the following Grand Total Losses:

Zero: 41 destroyed.
Jill: 98 destroyed and 25 damaged.
Judy: 78 destroyed and 34 damaged.


How Reliable is the Allied Sighting of the Japanese Carriers?

1.) With reference to number and type of ships sighted?

2.) With reference to number and type of aircraft remaining on the carriers?

Fighters on Board: 306

Bombers on Board: 81



A display of the Allied sighting of enemy carriers is below.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

[center]Revised

After Action Report

October 5, 1943[/center]



Highlights for Today

1.) Japanese Carrier Aircraft attack the Allied Invasion Fleet.

2.) The grand tally for aircraft and ships losses for today is as follows:

-9 Japanese ships are damaged, including but not limited to, 2 CLs and 4 DDs damaged.
-13 Allied ships are sunk and 8 are damaged, including but not limited to, 3 CVs damaged, 2 CVEs sunk and 4 damaged, 1 BB damaged, and 2 DDs sunk.

-162 Japanese aircraft destroyed and 52 damaged.
-17 Allied aircraft destroyed and 14 damaged.

-5,129 Japanese ground casualties.
-9,826 Allied ground casualties

Synopsis of Combat Action for Today

1.) ASW Attack near Cantanduanes(hex 86,79).

Japanese Losses

None

Allied Losses

SS Corvine: 1 hit.

2.) The Marianas Islands.

Japanese Losses

5 destroyed (B6N2 Jill).

CL Noshiro: 2 shell hits.
CL Oyodo: 2 shell hits; 1 torpedo hit; on fire.
DD Kosugiri: 8 shell hits; heavy fires.
E Uji: 4 shell hits; on fire.
E Tsuga: 2 shell hits; on fire.
E Kiji: 4 shell hits; on fire.

Allied Losses

3 destroyed (F4U-1 Corsair).

DD Nepal: Sunk.
DD Racehorse: Sunk.
AM Sheldrake: 7 shell hits; heavy fires; heavy damage.
SC PC-781: 1 shell hit.
PC Vigilant: Sunk.
PC Jackson: Sunk.
YMS 244: Sunk.
YMS 287: Sunk.
YMS 288: Sunk.
YMS 290: Sunk.

3.) Taihoku.

Japanese Losses

1 destroyed (N1K1 George).
1 destroyed (J2M2 Jack).

DD Suzkaze: 1 bomb hit; on fire.
DD Akatsuki: 2 bomb hits; heavy fires; heavy damage.
DD Tadeshiwa: 2 bomb hits; heavy fires; heavy damage.

Allied Losses

13 destroyed (F6F-3 Hellcat).
4 destroyed and 9 damaged (SB2C-1C Helldiver).
5 damaged (B-24D1 Liberator).

No Allied ship losses.

4.) The Philippine Sea near Daito Shoto.

Japanese Losses

38 destroyed (A6M5 Zero).
59 destroyed and 21 damaged (B6N2 Jill).
58 destroyed and 31 damaged (D4Y3 Judy).

No Japanese ship losses.

Allied Losses

1 destroyed (F4F-4 Wildcat).
3 destroyed (F6F-3 Hellcat).

CV Enterprise: 2 bomb hits; 1 torpedo hit; heavy fires.
CV Saratoga: 1 bomb hit; 1 torpedo hit.
CV Lexington: 1 torpedo hit.
CVE Altamaha: Sunk.
CVE Santee: Sunk.
CVE Long Island: 2 torpedo hits; heavy fires; heavy damage.
CVE Copahee: 2 torpedo hits; heavy fires; heavy damage.
CVE Nassau: 2 bomb hits; 1 torpedo hit; heavy fires; heavy damage.
CVE Suwannee: 1 bomb hit; heavy fires.
BB Mississippi: 1 torpedo hit.
SS Bluefish: 2 hits.
CM Gouden Leeuw: Sunk.

5.) Japanese bomb Chungking. Same old story; minimal casualties, manpower hits, and hundreds of thousands of fires.

6.) Japanese bomb 10th Chinese Corps near Chungking (hex 77,46).

Japanese Losses

None.

Allied Losses

112 Chinese casualties.

7.) Japanese bomb 94th Chinese Corps near Chungking (hex 77,47).

Japanese Losses

None.

Allied Losses

63 Chinese casualties.

8.) Japanese bomb 90th Chinese Corps at Shaoyang.

Japanese Losses

None.

Allied Losses

88 Chinese casualties.

9.) Japanese deliberate attack near Chungking (hex 77,46).

Japanese Losses

5,026 Japanese casualties.

Allied Losses

8,946 Chinese casualties.

10.) Allied shock attack at Taichu.

Japanese Losses

133 Japanese casualties.

Allied Losses

612 Allied casualties.


Attached below as a link is the entire genuine Combat Report for October 5, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Losses are not decisive yet, but they could be more, for current phase of the war only, if El Lobo reaches and disposes of of your crippled CVs. Luckily for you, he lost great numbers of airplanes (and, much more painful and decisive, great numbers of fine pilots).
Much depends on your respective choices now.

Besides this,

I'd like to say that you are a fine and keen strategist and organizer, while El Lobo is growing savior more and more with the game, and aggressive.

This a very enjoyable match to see from the two of yours, sparks

[BBfanboy]

Accuracy of sighting reports correlates with D/L and skill level of your NavSearch pilots.
A D/L of 1 just suggests there is something there - any other info offered is suspect
A D/L of 5 should ID the type of TF pretty accurately but may have the mix of ships inaccurate - e.g. TK misidentified as CVs or vice-versa.
A D/L of 10 is very good and you can be sure 90% of the info is accurate, but there is always a little chance of FOW.

As for direction of travel info, that is the direction of travel the TF had when it entered the hex, not necessarily where it will go next. You have to put yourself in your opponent's shoes with a mind to his personality to try and guess his likely intentions for next turn.

In your case, if you have a number of other CVs undamaged in the area he may not attack because of his aircraft losses so far. But if he does not see other CVs, he may figure this is his last/best chance to really hurt you.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner



Besides this,

I'd like to say that you are a fine and keen strategist and organizer, while El Lobo is growing savior more and more with the game, and aggressive.

What does the phrase in bold mean? I have tried to guess but I am still not sure what you are getting at. Please restate it in other words.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner



Besides this,

I'd like to say that you are a fine and keen strategist and organizer, while El Lobo is growing savior more and more with the game, and aggressive.

What does the phrase in bold mean? I have tried to guess but I am still not sure what you are getting at. Please restate it in other words.

I interpreted his intended word as "savvy".

[BBfanboy]

Savvy - a word I have not seen used much lately so I never thought of it. Thanks Hans!

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

[center]Revised

After Action Report

October 5, 1943[/center]



Highlights for Today

1.) Japanese Carrier Aircraft attack the Allied Invasion Fleet.

2.) The grand tally for aircraft and ships losses for today is as follows:

-9 Japanese ships are damaged, including but not limited to, 2 CLs and 4 DDs damaged.
-13 Allied ships are sunk and 8 are damaged, including but not limited to, 3 CVs damaged, 2 CVEs sunk and 4 damaged, 1 BB damaged, and 2 DDs sunk.

-162 Japanese aircraft destroyed and 52 damaged.
-17 Allied aircraft destroyed and 14 damaged.

-5,129 Japanese ground casualties.
-9,826 Allied ground casualties

Synopsis of Combat Action for Today

1.) ASW Attack near Cantanduanes(hex 86,79).

Japanese Losses

None

Allied Losses

SS Corvine: 1 hit.

2.) The Marianas Islands.

Japanese Losses

5 destroyed (B6N2 Jill).

CL Noshiro: 2 shell hits.
CL Oyodo: 2 shell hits; 1 torpedo hit; on fire.
DD Kosugiri: 8 shell hits; heavy fires.
E Uji: 4 shell hits; on fire.
E Tsuga: 2 shell hits; on fire.
E Kiji: 4 shell hits; on fire.

Allied Losses

3 destroyed (F4U-1 Corsair).

DD Nepal: Sunk.
DD Racehorse: Sunk.
AM Sheldrake: 7 shell hits; heavy fires; heavy damage.
SC PC-781: 1 shell hit.
PC Vigilant: Sunk.
PC Jackson: Sunk.
YMS 244: Sunk.
YMS 287: Sunk.
YMS 288: Sunk.
YMS 290: Sunk.

3.) Taihoku.

Japanese Losses

1 destroyed (N1K1 George).
1 destroyed (J2M2 Jack).

DD Suzkaze: 1 bomb hit; on fire.
DD Akatsuki: 2 bomb hits; heavy fires; heavy damage.
DD Tadeshiwa: 2 bomb hits; heavy fires; heavy damage.

Allied Losses

13 destroyed (F6F-3 Hellcat).
4 destroyed and 9 damaged (SB2C-1C Helldiver).
5 damaged (B-24D1 Liberator).

No Allied ship losses.

4.) The Philippine Sea near Daito Shoto.

Japanese Losses

38 destroyed (A6M5 Zero).
59 destroyed and 21 damaged (B6N2 Jill).
58 destroyed and 31 damaged (D4Y3 Judy).

No Japanese ship losses.

Allied Losses

1 destroyed (F4F-4 Wildcat).
3 destroyed (F6F-3 Hellcat).

CV Enterprise: 2 bomb hits; 1 torpedo hit; heavy fires.
CV Saratoga: 1 bomb hit; 1 torpedo hit.
CV Lexington: 1 torpedo hit.
CVE Altamaha: Sunk.
CVE Santee: Sunk.
CVE Long Island: 2 torpedo hits; heavy fires; heavy damage.
CVE Copahee: 2 torpedo hits; heavy fires; heavy damage.
CVE Nassau: 2 bomb hits; 1 torpedo hit; heavy fires; heavy damage.
CVE Suwannee: 1 bomb hit; heavy fires.
BB Mississippi: 1 torpedo hit.
SS Bluefish: 2 hits.
CM Gouden Leeuw: Sunk.

5.) Japanese bomb Chungking. Same old story; minimal casualties, manpower hits, and hundreds of thousands of fires.

6.) Japanese bomb 10th Chinese Corps near Chungking (hex 77,46).

Japanese Losses

None.

Allied Losses

112 Chinese casualties.

7.) Japanese bomb 94th Chinese Corps near Chungking (hex 77,47).

Japanese Losses

None.

Allied Losses

63 Chinese casualties.

8.) Japanese bomb 90th Chinese Corps at Shaoyang.

Japanese Losses

None.

Allied Losses

88 Chinese casualties.

9.) Japanese deliberate attack near Chungking (hex 77,46).

Japanese Losses

5,026 Japanese casualties.

Allied Losses

8,946 Chinese casualties.

10.) Allied shock attack at Taichu.

Japanese Losses

133 Japanese casualties.

Allied Losses

612 Allied casualties.


Attached below as a link is the entire genuine Combat Report for October 5, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Losses are not decisive yet, but they could be more, for current phase of the war only, if El Lobo reaches and disposes of of your crippled CVs. Luckily for you, he lost great numbers of airplanes (and, much more painful and decisive, great numbers of fine pilots).
Much depends on your respective choices now.

Besides this,

I'd like to say that you are a fine and keen strategist and organizer, while El Lobo is growing savior more and more with the game, and aggressive.

This a very enjoyable match to see from the two of yours, sparks

adarbrauner-


I agree, to date, the Allies have taken minimal losses to carriers and major surface combat ships.

I agree, the Japanese have taken some heavy carrier aircraft losses during the battles at the Marianas Islands and in the middle of the Philippine Sea. Few occurrences in the war give me more pleasure than killing Japanese pilots.

I would be extremely surprised if El Lobo does not launch another Carrier Strike on October 6, 1943. I expect additional Allied carrier losses.

I agree with your assessment of El Lobo. He is intelligent, a quick study, and pays fastidious attention to detail. The more experience he gains on the battlefield, the deadlier foe he becomes. And yes, El Lobo can be extremely aggressive and stubborn. *laughing*

Thank you for the compliment. I am pleased that you are following both of our AARs and that you are enjoying the "sparks" between El Lobo and me.

October 6, 1943 may prove to be a rather interesting day.

Keep your radio dialed to the six o'clock news. *laughing*

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Accuracy of sighting reports correlates with D/L and skill level of your NavSearch pilots.
A D/L of 1 just suggests there is something there - any other info offered is suspect
A D/L of 5 should ID the type of TF pretty accurately but may have the mix of ships inaccurate - e.g. TK misidentified as CVs or vice-versa.
A D/L of 10 is very good and you can be sure 90% of the info is accurate, but there is always a little chance of FOW.

As for direction of travel info, that is the direction of travel the TF had when it entered the hex, not necessarily where it will go next. You have to put yourself in your opponent's shoes with a mind to his personality to try and guess his likely intentions for next turn.

In your case, if you have a number of other CVs undamaged in the area he may not attack because of his aircraft losses so far. But if he does not see other CVs, he may figure this is his last/best chance to really hurt you.

BBfanboy-


You are always so good in getting back to me with advice. Thank you.

I do not see any Detection Level Number for the Japanese Carriers. Do the Allies only see a Detection Level Number for their own Task Forces? I read the manual, but can't find the answer.

Exactly! El Lobo will expect the Allies to move either due south or southeast. I think their is a very high likelihood, even though he has suffered some heavy carrier air losses, that El Lobo will launch carrier strikes again tomorrow (October 6, 1943). Accordingly, I suspect that he will move his carriers a bit further southeast in an effort to stay in range of the Allied carriers and invasion fleet, but also attempt to stay just out of range of the Allied carriers. I think I have a pretty good idea where his carriers are going to be on October 6, 1943.

Stand by, BB. *cracking myself up* I am presently developing a list of questions as I am giving serious thought to going after El Lobo.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[BBfanboy]

Ah, you are right - it has been so long since I saw an IJN TF in my game I forgot that the D/L does not show on rollover for TFs (but it does when I roll over IJ bases)
Your indicator then would be the reports of contact you have by SIGINT, Operational Report info on sightings by aircraft (patrol aircraft and FP sightings count more than bombers because of their training in NavS, I think), and any contact by subs or surface ships. The more contacts, the better the D/L.

If the info you posted on the number (81) of bombers on his carriers is anywhere accurate, he might decide he cannot get through your CAP and abandon the carrier chase except for lagging cripples. He could also throw a bunch of surface combat TFs at you to try and engage your ships at night.
You may have to choose between staying with your cripples in hope of saving them or abandoning them and moving the rest as fast as possible. War is a cold calculus!

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Ah, you are right - it has been so long since I saw an IJN TF in my game I forgot that the D/L does not show on rollover for TFs (but it does when I roll over IJ bases)
Your indicator then would be the reports of contact you have by SIGINT, Operational Report info on sightings by aircraft (patrol aircraft and FP sightings count more than bombers because of their training in NavS, I think), and any contact by subs or surface ships. The more contacts, the better the D/L.

If the info you posted on the number (81) of bombers on his carriers is anywhere accurate, he might decide he cannot get through your CAP and abandon the carrier chase except for lagging cripples. He could also throw a bunch of surface combat TFs at you to try and engage your ships at night.
You may have to choose between staying with your cripples in hope of saving them or abandoning them and moving the rest as fast as possible. War is a cold calculus!

BBfanboy-


As you sagely surmised, El Lobo did not launch a Carrier strike on October 6, 1943.

I won't abandon the heavily damage Enterprise. She can still move fast enough to stay close to the Main Invasion Fleet and I will assign LRCAP to protect her best I can until she gets home (if that is possible).

The only other remaining damaged carriers are the Lexington (but she is not too badly damaged; can reach the Invasion Fleet and keep pace with the Invasion Fleet) and the CVE Suwannee (heavily damaged, on her own, heading to Pescadores; not likely she will survive).

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

[center]After Action Report

for October 6, 1943[/center]


Highlights for Today


1.) Japanese Carriers did not launch any Air Strikes today. It is believed that his bomber aircraft losses have been heavy and That El Lobo's carriers are heading home.

2.) The Haggard Group bombarded Pagan destroying and damaging Japanese aircraft on the ground.

3.) The Allies capture Kanhsien, China.


Synopsis of Combat Action for Today


1.) Night Time Surface Combat near Pagan (hex 110,89).

E Tsuga: 1 shell hit.
E Uji: 1 shell hit.
E Kiji: Sunk.

BB Maryland: 1 shell hit.
BB Idaho: 1 shell hit.
DD Anthony: 1 shell hit.

2.) Coastal Guns at Pagan.

No Japanese losses.

DMS Trevor: 1 shell hit.

3.) Sub Attack near Pagan (hex 110,89).

SS I-36: 28 hits; heavy damage.

DD Ammen: 1 torpedo hit; on fire; heavy damage.

4.) Allies Bombard Pagan.

3 destroyed and 20 damaged (N1K1-J George).
2 destroyed and 2 damaged (A6M5 Zero).

68 Japanese casualties.

No Allied Losses.

5.) Day Time Surface Combat near Orchid Island.

PB Sonan Maru #6: 1 shell hit

CM Oglala: 2 shell hits; on fire; heavy damage.

6.) Sub Attack near Naha (Hex 93,69).

No Japanese losses.

SS Sunfish: 3 shell hits. What kind of heartless, Evil Emperor would attack such a beautiful sunfish?

7.) Japanese bomb Chungking (Chinese Medical Authority is holding mandatory sign language classes as not a single resident in Chungking can hear).

8.) Japanese bomb 90th Chinese Corps at Shaoyang.

No Japanese losses.

92 Chinese casualties.

9.) Allies deliberately attack Taichu, China.

276 Japanese casualties.
Fort reduced to zero.

274 Allied casualties.


Attached below as a link is the entire Combat Report for October 6, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[adarbrauner]

savvier, yes, that

[Rio Bravo]

[center]After Action Report

for October 7, 1943[/center]


Highlights for Today


1.) The Enterprise did not survive the night. The flooding was too heavy and the pumps failed. She now rests with the Arizona at the bottom of the ocean.

2.) CVE Suwannee experienced the same problem this morning as the Enterprise did last night. Her Skipper is preparing the crew to abandon ship. The last sighting saw her heavily listing. She has 400 miles left to make it to Guam.

3.) The Allies captured Taichu, Formosa today.

4.) An Allied tank battalion clamored into Karenko, Formosa today, found the city unoccupied by the enemy, and took possession.

5.) Within close proximity of Pagan, The Marianas Islands, The Haggard Group experienced several Surface Combat engagements and in conjunction with Allied air attacks won the battle on the sea. The Allies lost the air-to-air battle.

6.) Within close proximity of Formosa, Allied bombers took a modest toll on enemy transports while being hammered in the sky.

7.) The grand tally for the fight at Pagan and Formosa is as follows:


26 Japanese aircraft destroyed and 9 Japanese aircraft damaged.

123 Allied aircraft destroyed and 57 Allied aircraft damaged.


7 Japanese ships sunk and 13 Japanese ships damaged, including but limited to, 1 CA with heavy fires and heavy damage, 2 DDs sunk, 2 DDs with heavy fires and heavy damage, 2 DDs with heavy fires, and one DD on fire.

6 Allied ships sunk and 7 Allied ships damaged, including but limited to, 1 CA 7 shell hits, 1 DD with heavy fires, and 1 DD on fire.


Synopsis of Combat Action for Today


1.) The Chungking Chinese Minister of Health is pleased to report that the sign-language courses are a smashing success (*giving El Lobo "The Bird"*).

2.) Near Chungking (hex 77,50) Japanese bomb my brave Chinese.

1 damaged (Ki-21-IIa Sally).

60 Chinese casualties.

3.) The Allies deliberately attacked Taichu, Formosa.

384 Japanese casualties.
2 destroyed (N1Ki-J George).
Allies capture Taichu.

59 Allied casualties.

4.) Pagan and Beyond, Northern Marianas Islands

12 destroyed and 4 damaged (]N1Ki-J George).
1 destroyed (A6M5 Zero).

CA Myoko: 1 torpedo hit; 14 shell hits; 11 bomb hits; heavy fires and heavy damage.
CL Noshiro: 1 shell hit and 1 bomb hit.
DD Shikinami: sunk.
DD Teruzuki: sunk.
DD Niizuki: 6 shell hits; 3 bomb hits; heavy fires and heavy damage.
DD Hibiki: 2 bomb hits; heavy fires and heavy damage.
DD Shiguri: 5 shell hits; heavy fires.
DD Fubuki: 3 bomb hits; heavy fires.
DD Asagi: 1 shell hit, 1 bomb hit; on fire.
DD Shinonome: 1 shell hit.
E Sanae: Sunk.
SS I-2: 1 hit.

1 destroyed (Kittyhawk III).
6 destroyed (P-40N5 Warhawk).
16 destroyed (F4U-1 Corsair).
4 destroyed (SB2C-1 Helldiver).
19 destroyed and 15 damaged (SBD-3 Dauntless).
19 destroyed and 24 damaged (SND-5 Dauntless).
1 damaged (PB4Y-1 Liberator).
1 damaged (PV-1 Ventura).

CA Suffolk: 7 shell hits.
DD Vendetta: 4 shell hits; heavy fires.
DD Voyager: 5 shell hits; on fire.
DD Norman: 3 shell hits; on fire.
DD Quadrant: 8 shell hits.
SC PC-781: sunk.
SC PC-1084: sunk.
SC PC-1085: sunk.
PT-30: sunk.
PT-59: sunk.
PT-230: sunk.
PT-36: 1 shell hit.

5.) Formosa and Beyond.

10 destroyed (N1K1-J George).
3 destroyed (J2M2 Jake).
3 damaged (Ki-21-IIa Sally).
2 damaged (Ki-49-IIb Helen).

xAP Kokuryu: 1 bomb hit; heavy fires.
xAK Hohuku Maru: sunk.
xAK Meisan Maru: sunk.
xAK Konzan Maru: sunk.
xAK Chowa Maru: sunk.
xAK Zyunyo Maru: 4 bomb hits; heavy fires and heavy damage.
xAK Siraha Maru: 6 bomb hits; heavy fires and heavy damage.
E Aotaka: 6 bomb hits; heavy damage.

1 destroyed (F4U-1 Corsair).
3 destroyed (FM-1 Wildcat).
5 destroyed (F4F-3 Wildcat).
5 destroyed (P-390 Airacobra).
6 destroyed (P-40E Warhawk).
6 destroyed and 4 damaged (SBD-5 Dauntless).
11 destroyed (F6F-3 Hellcat).
11 destroyed and 5 damaged (TBF-1 Avenger).
11 destroyed (SB2C-1C Helldiver).
2 damaged (B-24D1 Liberator).

SS Hake: 1 hit.


Attached below as a link is the entire Combat Report for October 7, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rusty1961]

I've never seen the allies lose 123 planes to 26 Japanese planes this late in the game, unless of course they were operational loses due to carries sinking. Could you elaborate?

[CaptHaggard]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

I've never seen the allies lose 123 planes to 26 Japanese planes this late in the game, unless of course they were operational loses due to carries sinking. Could you elaborate?

Rusty—

Not to jump Rio's response, but the Bombardment TF from Saipan failed to appear in Pagan last night. Don't as yet know why.

That would have reduced subsequent enemy air activity over the northern Marianas considerably, IMO.

As to why the disparate results in general, one reason is We went to Them. When They come to Us, results are usually pretty satisfying.

Anyway, my two cents...

Hag

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

I've never seen the allies lose 123 planes to 26 Japanese planes this late in the game, unless of course they were operational loses due to carries sinking. Could you elaborate?

Rusty-

None of the Allied aircraft lost on October 7, 1943 were carrier aircraft. They were all land based at aircraft on the Marianas Islands and within the vicinity of Formosa.

As Captain Haggard mentioned, when the Japanese attack, Allied aircraft does well. when the allies attack, the Allied losses are heavy.

I don't have answer, just know the history.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

I've never seen the allies lose 123 planes to 26 Japanese planes this late in the game, unless of course they were operational loses due to carries sinking. Could you elaborate?

Rusty-

None of the Allied aircraft lost on October 7, 1943 were carrier aircraft. They were all land based at aircraft on the Marianas Islands and within the vicinity of Formosa.

As Captain Haggard mentioned, when the Japanese attack, Allied aircraft does well. when the allies attack, the Allied losses are heavy.

I don't have answer, just know the history.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Marianas to Formosa is a very long stretch for anything but a B-29. You probably took lots of operational losses from damaged aircraft unable to return that far or just pilot fatigue. I rarely operate my bombers at full normal range unless the target is very worthwhile, and at extended range only on rare occasions. Bomber and pilot pools are part of my decision making for long strikes.

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

I've never seen the allies lose 123 planes to 26 Japanese planes this late in the game, unless of course they were operational loses due to carries sinking. Could you elaborate?

Rusty-

None of the Allied aircraft lost on October 7, 1943 were carrier aircraft. They were all land based at aircraft on the Marianas Islands and within the vicinity of Formosa.

As Captain Haggard mentioned, when the Japanese attack, Allied aircraft does well. when the allies attack, the Allied losses are heavy.

I don't have answer, just know the history.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Marianas to Formosa is a very long stretch for anything but a B-29. You probably took lots of operational losses from damaged aircraft unable to return that far or just pilot fatigue. I rarely operate my bombers at full normal range unless the target is very worthwhile, and at extended range only on rare occasions. Bomber and pilot pools are part of my decision making for long strikes.

BBfanboy-


The Allies have bombers stationed at both The Marianas Islands and at Amoy, Pescadores, and Takao. The Allies didn't fly any bombers from the Marianas Islands to bomb Formosa. The bombers within the vicinity of Formosa bombed at Formosa.

Additionally, the heavy level bombers didn't get hurt; only two damaged. The fighters and the Dauntless are the aircraft that took the big hits.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[BBfanboy]

Thanks for the clarification. I misread the line about the Marianas and Formosa in your previous post.

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Thanks for the clarification. I misread the line about the Marianas and Formosa in your previous post.

BBfanboy-

Now you know how I feel damn near all day long every day.

*laughing*

Best Regards,

-Terry