Great update! The AI is definately improved. In addition to the above observations, I have noticed a few anomolies:
1) My mouse works sporadically, and my right-click never works.
2) *Please* change the aircraft mission menu default from "Disband." I've inadvertently disbanded several squadrons.
OBC questions, comments, suggestions
Here's what we have decided to do about the LCU problem...
We are doing a major rehash of the IJA Divisions stationed in China and Manchuria. To save space in the LCU area without sacrificing the LCU's in the Pacific I have changed around all formations in China and Manchuria to be ARMIES instead of individual Divisions (like the Chinese forces, even though I know they don't truely represent the numbers of troops actually stationed there...). There were around 16 of these formations scattered throughout Kwantung and China. ANY IJA FORMATION that gets transferred from China/Kwantung to the Pacific remains in the game BUT appears as a reinforcement in TOKYO on the date that they are transfered to the Pacific (ie. the 1st IJA Division arrives in the Pacific on turn 123 attached to 14th Army). These transferred formations arrive with a full compliment of infantry (240 Squads) along with 48 artillery pieces.
There were approximately 40 IJA Divisions that weren't transfered from Kwantung/China which I either used to create the 16 Japanese Armies in Kwantung/China, or Deleted to make space for units to divide.
I have a few questions about some arrival dates for IJA Divisions in the Pacific Theatre that I wasn't able to find out. I am unsure when the following were transferred to the Pacific from China/Kwantung.
6th Infantry (to 17th Army)
17th Infantry (to 17th Army)
20th Infantry (to 18th Army)
41st Infantry (to 18th Army)
51st Infantry (to 18th Army)
(however this might screw up some early war IJA tactics of using these divisions on early war attacks on Pearl Harbor/Midway, possibly I will leave just the 20th, 41st and 51st sitting in China and the AI can choose to transfer these over to suit its offensive tactics).
For the Japanese there are now 28 free LCU spaces vs the old 5 free LCU spaces.
For the Allies there are now 11 free LCU spaces vs the old 5 free LCU spaces. There will be more free spaces in the Allied OOB due to many units getting destroyed early in the game (many of these disappear from the OBC completely, and their space becomes vacant to be used for dividing units).
As I said, this might not be historica, but, why waste multipe LCU slots on places and units that don't matter to the game?
In regards to the strong Japanese forces in early 1942. I will tone them down a bit (in regards to preparation points) BUT, beware that the AI gets bogged down in the Dutch East Indies REALLY easy and ignores the Soloman Islands WAY too long. Supply is handled differently with the patch (the old version had unlimited Japanese supply) and it runs out fast.
In order to help the British in Singapore I might increase the stats of the 8th Australian and 18th British Divisions so they don't die quite as fast (Do you send the 18th Division and the Indian Brigades to Singapore or do you keep them out of it?). To help the Americans in the Philippines I will move the Philippine Reseve Corps to Bataan and entrench it, while also increasing Philippine experience for all formations on Luzon to 25 (to simulate relatively high morale) I will probably also increase the Experience for the 'Fort Mills' unit, as well as the Philippine Division (and increase entrenchment). The AI still likes to cheat a bit, as, I played the Japanese and it took me a while to crack the American defences in the Philippines (even though I had 3 good divisions, all well supplied and the Americans were all cut off from supply!). And Burma should 'fall like rain'
Actually for the first few months of the war the Japanese were able to attack everywhere, and in strenght as well. The problem about PacWar is that this does not last as long as it historically did, so, if they get majorly behind schedule (caught in Singapore/Java until mid 1942) every other military operation suffers. Singapore should be virtually impossible to defend, same with Java and the Philippines. Burma can only be held if you take units from Java/Singapore. Try playing this game well into 1942, and you will see why the Japanese AI needs as much help early on to get just what they had historically.
All the requests regarding USN Late war DD's are taken in hand. I will definitely reduce ship speed for those Destroyers that are overloaded. One question, was a 5" gun removed (along with a set of TT's) in order to make up for these extra guns or were they just shoved in here and there?
Don, those were some of my most used sites for creating these OBC files. I wish that the Australian site would have said what planes were with the Squadron (as I have to go and compare with other books and sites!). In regards to the #85,#87 Squadrons I will put them as an RAAF reinforcement, however, the will start off with Buffalo I's (which will be upgraded to Kittyhawk III's).
I was actually considering putting some IJNAF planes on the Pearl Harbour Task Force in the damaged space. I did lower preparation points, and there was a slight decrease in average numbers of ships sunk (usually 3-4 BB's, always a CS and AP and sometimes a CA, CL or DD).
Cmdrcain, I understand your thoughts on removing units from their historical locations, but, in reality they played no actual role in the game Pacific War. Their removal will not hinder anything (except Squad and Artillery replacements, but lowering factory levels to simulate weapons being sent to China/Kwantung will fix this). The Allies gained MANY new (new from the original PacWar sense) formations to fight the war with, and giving the Japanese new formations to combat these will not undermine them. Every IJA LCU formation that saw service in the Pacific that was transferred from China/Manchuria will be represented. In fact, this might help the game's realism, by stopping a Japanese player from using the 40 or so Divisions in China to kill off the KMT by the end of 1943, entering northern Burma and engaging the British forces with 20+ veteran divisions (I did this once against the AI, it was kind of fun, but, impossible in reality).
Jeremy,
We are doing a major rehash of the IJA Divisions stationed in China and Manchuria. To save space in the LCU area without sacrificing the LCU's in the Pacific I have changed around all formations in China and Manchuria to be ARMIES instead of individual Divisions (like the Chinese forces, even though I know they don't truely represent the numbers of troops actually stationed there...). There were around 16 of these formations scattered throughout Kwantung and China. ANY IJA FORMATION that gets transferred from China/Kwantung to the Pacific remains in the game BUT appears as a reinforcement in TOKYO on the date that they are transfered to the Pacific (ie. the 1st IJA Division arrives in the Pacific on turn 123 attached to 14th Army). These transferred formations arrive with a full compliment of infantry (240 Squads) along with 48 artillery pieces.
There were approximately 40 IJA Divisions that weren't transfered from Kwantung/China which I either used to create the 16 Japanese Armies in Kwantung/China, or Deleted to make space for units to divide.
I have a few questions about some arrival dates for IJA Divisions in the Pacific Theatre that I wasn't able to find out. I am unsure when the following were transferred to the Pacific from China/Kwantung.
6th Infantry (to 17th Army)
17th Infantry (to 17th Army)
20th Infantry (to 18th Army)
41st Infantry (to 18th Army)
51st Infantry (to 18th Army)
(however this might screw up some early war IJA tactics of using these divisions on early war attacks on Pearl Harbor/Midway, possibly I will leave just the 20th, 41st and 51st sitting in China and the AI can choose to transfer these over to suit its offensive tactics).
For the Japanese there are now 28 free LCU spaces vs the old 5 free LCU spaces.
For the Allies there are now 11 free LCU spaces vs the old 5 free LCU spaces. There will be more free spaces in the Allied OOB due to many units getting destroyed early in the game (many of these disappear from the OBC completely, and their space becomes vacant to be used for dividing units).
As I said, this might not be historica, but, why waste multipe LCU slots on places and units that don't matter to the game?
In regards to the strong Japanese forces in early 1942. I will tone them down a bit (in regards to preparation points) BUT, beware that the AI gets bogged down in the Dutch East Indies REALLY easy and ignores the Soloman Islands WAY too long. Supply is handled differently with the patch (the old version had unlimited Japanese supply) and it runs out fast.
In order to help the British in Singapore I might increase the stats of the 8th Australian and 18th British Divisions so they don't die quite as fast (Do you send the 18th Division and the Indian Brigades to Singapore or do you keep them out of it?). To help the Americans in the Philippines I will move the Philippine Reseve Corps to Bataan and entrench it, while also increasing Philippine experience for all formations on Luzon to 25 (to simulate relatively high morale) I will probably also increase the Experience for the 'Fort Mills' unit, as well as the Philippine Division (and increase entrenchment). The AI still likes to cheat a bit, as, I played the Japanese and it took me a while to crack the American defences in the Philippines (even though I had 3 good divisions, all well supplied and the Americans were all cut off from supply!). And Burma should 'fall like rain'
Actually for the first few months of the war the Japanese were able to attack everywhere, and in strenght as well. The problem about PacWar is that this does not last as long as it historically did, so, if they get majorly behind schedule (caught in Singapore/Java until mid 1942) every other military operation suffers. Singapore should be virtually impossible to defend, same with Java and the Philippines. Burma can only be held if you take units from Java/Singapore. Try playing this game well into 1942, and you will see why the Japanese AI needs as much help early on to get just what they had historically.
All the requests regarding USN Late war DD's are taken in hand. I will definitely reduce ship speed for those Destroyers that are overloaded. One question, was a 5" gun removed (along with a set of TT's) in order to make up for these extra guns or were they just shoved in here and there?
Don, those were some of my most used sites for creating these OBC files. I wish that the Australian site would have said what planes were with the Squadron (as I have to go and compare with other books and sites!). In regards to the #85,#87 Squadrons I will put them as an RAAF reinforcement, however, the will start off with Buffalo I's (which will be upgraded to Kittyhawk III's).
I was actually considering putting some IJNAF planes on the Pearl Harbour Task Force in the damaged space. I did lower preparation points, and there was a slight decrease in average numbers of ships sunk (usually 3-4 BB's, always a CS and AP and sometimes a CA, CL or DD).
Cmdrcain, I understand your thoughts on removing units from their historical locations, but, in reality they played no actual role in the game Pacific War. Their removal will not hinder anything (except Squad and Artillery replacements, but lowering factory levels to simulate weapons being sent to China/Kwantung will fix this). The Allies gained MANY new (new from the original PacWar sense) formations to fight the war with, and giving the Japanese new formations to combat these will not undermine them. Every IJA LCU formation that saw service in the Pacific that was transferred from China/Manchuria will be represented. In fact, this might help the game's realism, by stopping a Japanese player from using the 40 or so Divisions in China to kill off the KMT by the end of 1943, entering northern Burma and engaging the British forces with 20+ veteran divisions (I did this once against the AI, it was kind of fun, but, impossible in reality).
Jeremy,
Originally posted by MikeKraemer:
Have done about a dozen historical first turn opens and still lose at least 5 battleships at Pearl Harbor(That was the best start) Also have Japanese landing on Midway on 12/28/41 turn with 41st and 51st Infantry Divisions. Both are listed belong to the China AG.
The pearl Harbor problem is simple too many torpedos! After pasting the airfield with about 300 planes in first strike. There are between 102 and 120 Kates in the second strike all carring torpedos. The Japanesse only had 40 torps fitted to run in the shallow water at Pearl. I shudder to think what the might have done with 60 to 80 more torpedos. Then the third strike comes in with at least another 45 Kates carring gues what! Two games with all 8 battleships sunk, two with 7 sunk, 7 with 6 sunk, 1 with 5 sunk. This has been a problem in the past I know. Idon't remember starting a game with less than 4 battleships sunk at Pearl. But I'd hoped.... Anyway, the graphics are really great congratulations and thanks to all those who have done a fantastic job on this game.
No way. I am playing the third Pearl HArbor in historical move. 1st:5 BBs 2nd: 4 BBs, 3rd: 5 BBs
I dont find this unnaceptable. I think is quite accurate, to be true.
Regarding torpedoes, true ,there weren't so many torpedoes on board kates...There were ,instead, 800Kg glide bombs, wich in fact were modified naval AP projectiles.
Arizona blew up because a Hit of a 800kg bomb, not because a torpedo, Nevada got severely damaged too because that.
In PH campaign I am still waiting to see a 800kg bomb dropped. They are the most damaging weapon in Japanese inventory, and nearly always get a critical.
So let torpedoes as they are, or put a way to make kates drop the 800kg bomb.
IMHO right now there is a fairly good compromise in the game regarding PH. Let it as it is, please.
Thank you and big thumbs up in the update!!
RAM
"Look at me! look at me!!!
Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"
"Look at me! look at me!!!
Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"
Re: Late war DD modifications (just from memory, I'm at work and the books are at home)
For the Fletchers, Sumners, and Gearing DDs, the tendency was to add light AA without reducing 5-inch or Torpedo Armament. The 5/38 DP guns on these classes were good AA guns themselves, with a lot of punch but suffered from a slower rate of fire. The Navy was always reluctant to give up Torpedo Tubes, especially in the Pacific. This view was re-inforced after the DD/DE action off Samar.
As partial compensation, the habitability levels on destroyers were reduced. Living space disappeared into magazines, radar rooms, and CIC. When radar/radio/command spaces expanded into officer's stateroom areas, the officers just doubled up in less area. Same was true for the crews, which were already overcrowded by wartime complement increases.
Also, fuel oil capacity was reduced. The Navy accepted a reduction in operational range (to about 4000 nautical miles if memory serves) in order to save space. This was acceptable due to the excellent fleet train, with plenty of oilers, and to the realization that operational radius was as dependent on ammunition supply as it was on fuel.
One limitation on AA armament that was accepted was an inability to increase ammunition load. Five-inch guns were limited to about 400 rounds/barrel (damn, that old memory - but I think that's right), about the same as pre-war estimates but an amount that could disappear very quickly under kamikaze attack.
The Kamikazes exposed a critital weakness in the fleet's AA defense, the same problem that the old torpedo boats exposed in late 1800 Battleships. Guns big enough to bring down a kamikaze had too slow a rate of fire and the quick-firing guns didn't have enough hitting power. The answer was the 3/50, but it did not reach the fleet during the war. They began to arrive in 1947 and were plentiful by the Korean war. In the meanfime, every upper deck area with decent sky arcs gained an AA mount.
Don
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Yogi Yohan
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Some LCUs seem to never get any replacements for combat losses, have noticed this with the Marine Defence Batallions, who did not get any INF or ART back though there were thousands of squads/guns in the pool.
Question: why are the warhead ratings of the 1000 and 2000 lb bombs not proportional to that of the 500 lb bomb? One would expect them to to be the double and quadruple (33, 66 and 132). The Jap 800 kg warhead size is not proportional to the 250 kg either...
Just curious...
Hey, i just made Matrix Veteran! Way cool...
[This message has been edited by Yogi Yohan (edited September 27, 2000).]
Question: why are the warhead ratings of the 1000 and 2000 lb bombs not proportional to that of the 500 lb bomb? One would expect them to to be the double and quadruple (33, 66 and 132). The Jap 800 kg warhead size is not proportional to the 250 kg either...
Just curious...
Hey, i just made Matrix Veteran! Way cool...
[This message has been edited by Yogi Yohan (edited September 27, 2000).]
Every weapon has a number that defines the % of "penetrating" or doing a "critical" hit.Originally posted by Yogi Yohan:
Question: why are the warhead ratings of the 1000 and 2000 lb bombs not proportional to that of the 500 lb bomb? One would expect them to to be the double and quadruple (33, 66 and 132). The Jap 800 kg warhead size is not proportional to the 250 kg either...
Just curious...
It has also a number of damage points.
1000lbs bomb has much better penetration than a 500lbs, so the 1000lbs will do more times more damage than 2x500lbs.
same with Japanese 800kg. In fact, more reasonable with japanese 800kg. This bomb was an adapted AP BB projectile, launched at some 3000m. It then glided towards the target, and would nearly allways penetrate into a BB skin...Remember arizona?
So, allways expect much more damage from a heavy bomb than from a light bomb...that is why Dauntlesses are much more dangerous than Vals...Vals pack 250Kg bombs (550lbs), wile Dauntlesses pack 1000Lbs bombs (rougly 450kg).
RAM
"Look at me! look at me!!!
Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"
"Look at me! look at me!!!
Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"
A little more data on late war DD refits.
In April, 1945, in response to the kamikaze threat, the CNO ordered the removal of one set of Torpedo Tubes from Fletcher/Sumner/Gearing class fleet destroyers in favor of additional 40mm guns.
Also, I was wrong about the ammunition. Destroyers did not expand their magazine space, but did cram it full. Fletcher class destroyers were designed for 2100 rounds of 5-inch (425 per gun) but frequently carried 2775 in the magazine plus 250 in ready service. The ammunition limitation I mentioned applied to early destroyers.
Also note the late-war specific Radar Picket conversions. These were Gearings with all torpedo tubes removed and replaced with long-range radar and a few more 40mm (2-4)
And, slightly off the subject, the proper name for the "Fort Mills" Regiment would be "Harbor Defense, Manila and Subic Bays". Too long for PacWar. Perhaps "Harbor Def". Composition was 59th CA Rgt**, 60th AA Rgt, 91st CA Rgt (PS), 92nd CA Rgt (PS) and 2 Philippine Army CA Regiments forming (1st and 2nd). Brigade strength might be a little closer.
** It was the service of a cousin in Battery B, 59th Coast Artillery Regiment that fostered my interest in this subject.
Don
I have run 3 more historical 1st Turns and in the First Lost 5BB 1 CA 1CL 2DD 1SS 2AO.
in the Second lost 3BB 2CA 4CL 1 CS 4DD 1AO 2AP. the Third lost 7BB 1CL 1DD 1CS. Also Kates do (rarely) Drop 800Kg Bombs while they seem to do more damage than the 500Kg and 250Kg Bombs, they don't match the torpedos. Yes the Arizona was sunk by one of these 800Kg bombs. I wonder if it had anything to do with it pentrating the forward Magazine. Other ships where hit by 800Kg bombs and not sunk.
I've just arrived at the first week of April turn in my main game. The good old 20th, 41st and 51 divisions are still trying to get a foot hold on Johnston, Palmyra and Midway. They're keeping my carriers busy. Have badly damaged 2 IJN BB's and sunk 2CA's and numerous smaller ships. No carrier vs carrier yet.
No IJN action in the south pacific area(probably because all the transports to support that are getting sunk in Kamikaze attacks against the above mentioned islands).
Singapore was take by the IJA the last week of January although some units held out for another week. Bataan still holds and the IJA is on the north end of Java.
I especally like the promt to upgrade airgroups!
in the Second lost 3BB 2CA 4CL 1 CS 4DD 1AO 2AP. the Third lost 7BB 1CL 1DD 1CS. Also Kates do (rarely) Drop 800Kg Bombs while they seem to do more damage than the 500Kg and 250Kg Bombs, they don't match the torpedos. Yes the Arizona was sunk by one of these 800Kg bombs. I wonder if it had anything to do with it pentrating the forward Magazine. Other ships where hit by 800Kg bombs and not sunk.
I've just arrived at the first week of April turn in my main game. The good old 20th, 41st and 51 divisions are still trying to get a foot hold on Johnston, Palmyra and Midway. They're keeping my carriers busy. Have badly damaged 2 IJN BB's and sunk 2CA's and numerous smaller ships. No carrier vs carrier yet.
No IJN action in the south pacific area(probably because all the transports to support that are getting sunk in Kamikaze attacks against the above mentioned islands).
Singapore was take by the IJA the last week of January although some units held out for another week. Bataan still holds and the IJA is on the north end of Java.
I especally like the promt to upgrade airgroups!
You can run but you'll die tired!