HOW DO YOU LEARN TO PLAY IT???

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: XLegion

Where is this "Flash Tutorial" that everyone is speaking about. All I see is the "July" scenario and the "Full Campaign Game" which seems to start in November of 1861.

Go to the directory where you installed FoF. Look for the file named FOF_BasicInterfaceTutorial.exe and doouble click on it.

[elmo3]

Double post and couldn't find any delete button.

[Curious]

It's under Documentation in the windows menu for FoF.

CB

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: ElGuapo

ORIGINAL: XLegion

Ok, just got the game, but I must say it is one of the most frustrating games I have ever seen to try and learn. The 275 page pdf manual seems to cover everything except - how to play it. It's a detailed manual on 'what everything does' but there is no methodology to learn the game. What exactly do you do??? Move and fight, great, I'm having trouble even identifying what is on the board. Richmond seems to have a stack of generals with no troops and as for the strategic icons on the map I have no idea what they mean.

Please don't say "read the manual". That is exactly my point there is no section on "learning the game" - only detailed sections on what each menu is supposed to do NOT how to play it.

These kind of games are NEVER going to do well unless you can get people to play them. This is the most disappointing opening to a much anticipated game that I have ever experienced. With "FOR LIBERTY" I at least could get playing within the first 10 minutes but this thing I am completely lost in.

What method is everybody using to learn the game? Why does the Campaign game begin so late in November of 1861.

I have been waiting for years for 'the' strategic game on the American Civil War and with all the hype I was sure this was is. It sure doesn't seem that way.

I feel exactly the same way. I know there's a great game in here, but I just can't figure out how to find it. Even following the AAR's don't do a lot of good.

START by reading the entire manual once. Then walk through the "tutorial" to find out where they've "hidden" the controls and switches. Then just start playing the game. You'll find you "remember" quite a lot you didn't realize you had learned, and you can look up the rest as you go along. Expect to "re-start" a number of times. The game auto saves, so when you find you've done something wrong, go back a couple of sves and try again. You fell down a lot when you were learning to walk---you will screw up a lot when learning to play. Most of all, don't get in too big a hurry, especially to take the offensive. You have to prepare your troops first.

And if you are playing the Union, forget everything you've read and expect to have to do it with one hand tied behind your back. Seems the "beta testors" were big Rebel Fans who thought the South needed a more "level playing field" to make the game "fun". They got it...., so you are going to have a real struggle on your hands as the Union as well as the Confederacy. Take your time..., the game rewards thought and planning.

Mike, it would be nice if you would find out what is/was going on, before coming out and saying what happened, during testing

I am the main CSA HW tester, and most of my suggestions were based on how to make the Union better

one of the main ideas in the game, is that both sides are going to have trouble on the attack and be very HARD to take out while on the defence, and as you get into the HARDer levels, it is going to get very HARD to defeat either side

and depending, you are going to get a very different game if you play only quick combat or if you play Detail combat

[Mike Scholl]

"Mike, it would be nice if you would find out what is/was going on, before coming out and saying what happened, during testing

I am the main CSA HW tester, and most of my suggestions were based on how to make the Union better

one of the main ideas in the game, is that both sides are going to have trouble on the attack and be very HARD to take out while on the defence, and as you get into the HARDer levels, it is going to get very HARD to defeat either side."


I got that information directly from Gil and one of the Design Team. Basically to the effect that they had originally designed the game as closely to the historical perameters as they could..., but that "all" the "beta testers" had complained that the South was too hamstrung and couldn't "do anything". So they began making modifications not only to imporve the South's Economy, but to hold down the Union's. I just passed the warning along to new players because if they know anything about the Civil War they will need to re-think it before starting the game. When I've been able to play it through a couple of times then I'll come back to the subject of, "Did they overdo this process? And we can talk about it.

[jimwinsor]

I'm pretty sure you are misquoting or misinterpreting Gil as to the word "all" above (or perhaps Gil misspoke, I dunno), 'cause I can assure you that was not the case.

[Hard Sarge]

Mike

most of the ECC model is JC's, if you want to see some charts, wait, I am sure he will be able to repost some of them

we had a lot more resources as the south in the beginning, the cost of the buildings have increased a few times, to try and refleck that the Union could afford them while the south could not (and I still do not think you count in what Kentucky will give you when they join) and the cost of the skills you could buy have changed a few times

my main area was HW, and to be honest, there are things I like and things I do not, but it is the designers game, and our main goal is to make sure it works the way he thinks, which so saying, they made a lot of changes to the game based on what we felt was right or wrong, but not everything is based on the testers

if you think combat is too HARD or too easy, change the level you are playing at, it was designed that way, you play the game on one of the General levels, you are going to have a HARD time winning any battles, you play it on Corp, you should win almost every one, you can also set the Ecc to what you want or feel is right, there is also Poor Ecc or Rich Ecc settings if you want it that way

if you think there are too many Generals or not enough Generals, you can change it, you want fancy weapons or mircomanagement, you can have it, or turn it off

I really think, that they tried HARD to make the game so that anyone could play any style of game that they wanted to

[Johnus]

Hard Sarge:

So detailed combat's AI is controlled by the difficulty setting? I though that setting only applied to economics, etc., and the detailed combat was the same at all settings.

[Gil R.]

Mike is alluding to something Eric wrote on another thread, in which Eric explained that during beta-testing the North's economic advantage over the South was modified.

[currycook]

I hate to be negative, but I so much agree with the original poster and others.  This game is a major disappointment.  Mainly because it is so NOT user friendly.  I dont think the game will take off simply because it is so hard to learn to play.  So very NOT user friendly.  Please dont say read the manual.  If you have to spend hours reading a manual to learn to play a game in todays world the game will not be a success.  Right now I am very sorry I wasted my money.

[Johnus]

Gil R.:

I'm losing you. Does Detailed Combat get harder at higher difficulty levels ??

[Gil R.]

ORIGINAL: Johnnie

Gil R.:

I'm losing you. Does Detailed Combat get harder at higher difficulty levels ??

Yes, see pg. 19 of the manual for the list of what difficulty settings affect.

[Queeg]

ORIGINAL: currycook

Please dont say read the manual. If you have to spend hours reading a manual to learn to play a game in todays world the game will not be a success.

There was a time when a big, beefy manual was the mark of a good game. Yes, FOF could be a bit more user friendly. But, sorry, I don't buy the argument that a game is bad simply because it requires an investment of time to learn.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

Mike is alluding to something Eric wrote on another thread, in which Eric explained that during beta-testing the North's economic advantage over the South was modified.

Thank You Gil. I didn't want Sarge thinking I'd made it all up, but I couldn't find the thread in which the statement was made. I just mentioned it to prevent other new players from starting out with my pre-conceptions.

[cdbeck]

LOL... you would think that this game is WiTP or UV for that matter with all the complaints on the learning curve.

A few tips. Let me preface this by saying that I am absolutely terrible at this game (and I'm not very good at CoG either). With this game, you need to break things down into three basic sub-games. First you have the military sub-game, which is by far the most important. Then you have the economic sub-game, which is detailed but, for the most part, runs rather well with minor tweaking and a "big picture" mentality (i.e. spending all your start up funds on mines, horse farms and banks will probably cripple you unless you can survive until they get up and running). Then you have the final political sub-game, which boils down to trying to pay Europe and France enough to enter/stay out of the war and pleasing your govs enough to stay in the war.

Many of you "newbies" are complaining about UI problems, such as "Where to click" or "how to move" or "how to form armies." This stuff needs to come from practice and experimentation. First, use the Flash tutorial (as was mentioned above) which is started as a slideshow from outside the game. That will help a bit with learning the UI. Second, most things are intuitive if you really put your mind to it. Use the Military advisor (bottom left military button) to look at your troops. Clicking their name allows you to change name, clicking their supply column (or their container's supply column) allows you to modify supply (in intermediate or advanced games), clicking weapons allows you to set weapons. It really isn't that bad -- but it takes some getting into. The same holds for your city advisor. Clicking money means your city will produce money over labor, clicking horses means your city will produce horses over iron (and vice versa for both). Clicking build brings up the choices for buildings, clicking produce brings up your army production. You need certain resources to build things, so some stuff will be greyed out until you build up the resources.

As for the military, for best UI control you need to know a few basics. Military units are broken into brigades (look like men, men on horses, or cannons, which represent a single unit of forces), then divisions, which can hold about 3-4 brigades (I can't remember specifics), then corps that hold divisions, then armies which can hold corps and divisions. Think of this like a Russian nesting doll. If you want to put lots of troops in concert toward your enemy, then try to nest them into different divisions, corps, and armies. Generals, the guys on nice white horses, are also separate units. These guys need to be attached to those containers to do anything. A general needs a certain amount of rank to lead different sizes of containers (4 for army, 3 for corps, 2 for divisions). Generals add certain bonuses to your containers and should always be attached, if possible. When attached correctly, you will see the general's name above the container.

The last bit of tip I can give regards unit movement. This is perhaps the most difficult thing to learn. When you "move" your units during your turn you are really just telling that unit to try to go to a certain location. If everything works out (command check, weather check, terrain check) then the unit will move where you asked. If theings don't work out (get stopped by an enemy unit, command gets fouled up, terrain too poor, or winter slows you down) then your unit may stop early and not make it all the way (or not move at all in some cases). This can see weird at first, you will think, "Why the heck didn't Lee attack Cincinnati like I ordered him?!" Well this can be due to lots of factors. You can generally tell the success of an action by the color of the movement bar. If it is light blue, you will have the best luck. If it is brown or black, it will almost certainly not get carried out.

Hope that helps a bit. Others can add their little UI tips to aid newcomers. Hope you get the hang of it! To tell the truth, once you get over the curve, there is an excellent game within. Hard as hell, but still an excellent game. Now if only I could get my worthless quality Union troops to win ONE detailed battle without running all the way back to Maine...

Son of Montfort

[Gil R.]

To Son of Montfort's excellent summary I'd add two points:
1) Anyone following the PBEM AAR's will know how often forces do not go where they're told to, for the reasons he outlined.
2) One of the common problems for first timers is clicking on a unit so as to move it, then moving to the destination province, and then trying to send it there by clicking on something in that province -- which deselects the original unit and selects whatever is in the destination province instead. (E.g., I want to send a general from James River to the Army of Northern Virginia in Lynchburg, so I click on him and then click on the ANV... thus selecting the ANV.) When trying to move a unit ALWAYS click on an open area in the destination province, so as to avoid this problem. And on a related note, doing this for river provinces can be tricky because they're thin and bendy, so watch the pop-up near the arrow to make sure that you are indeed about to send a unit into the river province rather than an adjacent one.

Giving movement orders really does become second nature after a bit of practice.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

To Son of Montfort's excellent summary I'd add two points:
1) Anyone following the PBEM AAR's will know how often forces do not go where they're told to, for the reasons he outlined.
2) One of the common problems for first timers is clicking on a unit so as to move it, then moving to the destination province, and then trying to send it there by clicking on something in that province -- which deselects the original unit and selects whatever is in the destination province instead. (E.g., I want to send a general from James River to the Army of Northern Virginia in Lynchburg, so I click on him and then click on the ANV... thus selecting the ANV.) When trying to move a unit ALWAYS click on an open area in the destination province, so as to avoid this problem. And on a related note, doing this for river provinces can be tricky because they're thin and bendy, so watch the pop-up near the arrow to make sure that you are indeed about to send a unit into the river province rather than an adjacent one.

Giving movement orders really does become second nature after a bit of practice.

Would have been a nice and usefull touch to have a small "go to" icon on the business end of the movement arrows that would flicker off if you had the pointer over another container..., but stay on if you had a legitimate spot to issue a movement order. User Friendly is always a good option.

[Moltke71]

Follow Temple's advice. He's obviously been around the block and knows that learning a game can be part of the fun of playing it.

[Shoot Me_I Explode]

I played my first game by choosing the CSA and basically copying whatever Gil did for his first four or five turns.  It was highly informative in seeing what units he chose to upgrade, where he chose to place his buildings, why he moved unit’s places and so on.  I still feel that I am being overwhelmed with some aspects of the game and get the feeling that I never have enough troops that I need.     

[Queeg]

ORIGINAL: Shoot Me_I Explode

I played my first game by choosing the CSA and basically copying whatever Gil did for his first four or five turns. It was highly informative in seeing what units he chose to upgrade, where he chose to place his buildings, why he moved unit’s places and so on. I still feel that I am being overwhelmed with some aspects of the game and get the feeling that I never have enough troops that I need.

I did exactly the same thing and feel like I got a great handle on the game.