You are kidding me, right?
Moderator: Gil R.
- von Beanie
- Posts: 290
- Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:57 pm
- Location: Oak Hills, S. California
RE: You are kidding me, right?
Your problem seems to describe exactly what happened to me early on.
Nowhere in your posting do you mention leaders. First, you need several leaders in a battle to even have a prayer of taking such a position (they are represented with units that have a horse accompanying the troops). If a unit takes more than 10 losses its flag dims a bit (not always evident in the smoke). Anytime in the upper right screen the left number is >0 you can rally one of the dimmed units. Once a unit's flag is dimmed it is nearly worthless as a fighting unit.
Early in the game you don't have any leaders out west, so you should not consider attacking until they arrive and are promoted to at least division level.
In any case, it is very difficult to take an entrenched position defended by several brigades. My experience is that the defenders are as strong in the rear as in the front, and the only chance you have is to surround a single unit and keep your attackers' flags brightly lit. Later on when you get some big artillery it is a much easier task. Also keep in mind that some defending units have special abilities that make them nearly invulnerable to attack.
I have more bad news for you. In the first few turns of the game you MIGHT think you have mastered the economy, but your world will soon collapse around you. My experience is that the Europeans start dumping everything they have on the South in such a way that the CSA will soon have a major manpower and technological edge on you. And I'm saying this having played the Union side at the same basic level you are playing on.
Nowhere in your posting do you mention leaders. First, you need several leaders in a battle to even have a prayer of taking such a position (they are represented with units that have a horse accompanying the troops). If a unit takes more than 10 losses its flag dims a bit (not always evident in the smoke). Anytime in the upper right screen the left number is >0 you can rally one of the dimmed units. Once a unit's flag is dimmed it is nearly worthless as a fighting unit.
Early in the game you don't have any leaders out west, so you should not consider attacking until they arrive and are promoted to at least division level.
In any case, it is very difficult to take an entrenched position defended by several brigades. My experience is that the defenders are as strong in the rear as in the front, and the only chance you have is to surround a single unit and keep your attackers' flags brightly lit. Later on when you get some big artillery it is a much easier task. Also keep in mind that some defending units have special abilities that make them nearly invulnerable to attack.
I have more bad news for you. In the first few turns of the game you MIGHT think you have mastered the economy, but your world will soon collapse around you. My experience is that the Europeans start dumping everything they have on the South in such a way that the CSA will soon have a major manpower and technological edge on you. And I'm saying this having played the Union side at the same basic level you are playing on.
"Military operations are drastically affected by many considerations, one of the most important of which is the geography of the area" Dwight D. Eisenhower
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RE: You are kidding me, right?
Nevermind. Figured it out, but converting screenshots to .jpg first.
v Beanie...I switched off the Europeans, because it didn't feel historical to me.
v Beanie...I switched off the Europeans, because it didn't feel historical to me.
- 06 Maestro
- Posts: 3997
- Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:50 pm
- Location: Nevada, USA
RE: You are kidding me, right?
ORIGINAL: Snydeman55
Hmm, having trouble uploading a picture. Do I have to host them on a separate webpage first?
I've saved them in bitmap form to my desktop.
Make it a JPEG-about 100 kb. Compression, resize, and maybe crop.
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson
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- Posts: 52
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 7:48 pm
RE: You are kidding me, right?
Erik, the forts in DC were more than 7 hexes large in some cases. I'd love to send you my saved game file if you wish to see it.
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RE: You are kidding me, right?
Kentucky, after modifying the diff level to easy settings.


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RE: You are kidding me, right?
So, either:
Setting diff level to corporal, power to Union at +1, power to CSA at -1, and enabling the setting where I - and not the AI - upgrade unit weapons, I get much better results. Today if I get a chance I'll restart at the levels I had issues with, enable weapon upgrades, and see if I do better, becuase at Corporal I feel like I'm cheating somehow. I played CoG at higher levels just fine, so I can't imagine I'd need to play at the kiddie level on this one.
Setting diff level to corporal, power to Union at +1, power to CSA at -1, and enabling the setting where I - and not the AI - upgrade unit weapons, I get much better results. Today if I get a chance I'll restart at the levels I had issues with, enable weapon upgrades, and see if I do better, becuase at Corporal I feel like I'm cheating somehow. I played CoG at higher levels just fine, so I can't imagine I'd need to play at the kiddie level on this one.
RE: You are kidding me, right?
I play with all the options on (but thinking of turning the damn stupid governors off!) and haven't experienced what you are saying. As the Union I did indeed encounter some early difficulty and it didn't help that Kentucky felt like deciding to join the CSA, but I was able to consistently win the tactical battles (on 1st Sgt). I only had to decide I lost after the CSA emancipated before I did and was able to bring the Europeans on his side! I had spent so much time reconquering Kentucky I ran out of time. Yikes.
Anyway, the point being is that either there is something to the options you've selected making the results appear different than you expect or perhaps, simply, you are just doing something wrong.
Here's some tips playing the Union, first and foremost, lure the CSA to attack you so you get a morale bonus (I think it's up to +2!). Once you have a few battles under your belt your troops will be much better quality and you can go on the offensive. Furthermore, you should be able to replace losses quicker even if the casualty count isn't in your favor. If you are doing fine in the resources as you say you are, then you should buy troops, preferably in cities with training grounds but regardless, buying troops are much better quality that mustered or impressed troops.
When doing tactical battles, if there aren't vp hexes, line up so you are in the best possible terrain and let them come to you. Even if there are vp hexes, you can do this but you have to be more careful as if he captures them all, you rout. But terrain, especially hills or behind rivers, can add a big advantage (river prevent flanking bonus for example).
When firing, remember that the strength of your attack also depends on how many movement points a unit has in relation to his starting movement points. So if you are rushing up to attack and moving around and then spend your last 6 movement points on the attack, you will not have a very strong attack. Furthermore, his counterattack is at full strength so naturally he will blast you for more than you blast him. I tend to move just out of firing range and stop, let him move up on me and fire. He may get a decent shot but I'll get the most effective shot I can. Then, depending on my position, I won't move at all or move one space to try to get around his flank. I will send my reserve around his flanks in column formation, switch to line, and if I don't have enough mp's to fire, I will wait one or even two turns before I have them fire their first shot as I maneuver them in position.
Also, concentrate fire on one unit as if you make it rout, every unit of equal and lower quality than the one routed will take a big morale hit (I think higher quality take a hit to but it's half as much). If you are spreading your fire, you will get decimated.
I will admit I don't do very well with charges. I can't quite figure it out but I do know this, fatigued units suck at charges. Low morale units are likely not to complete the charge. I believe line charges are better than column but any charge in the flank (back three especially) will have a better chance than one in the front. If the enemy is disordered, your charge may not succeed but you are unlikely to take major casualties so you might want to try anyway. If you happen to displace a unit, charge it with others as it's obvious it's vunerable (my "flys to the crap theory"). Expect a countercharge if the enemy is the least bit ordered. For this reason alone I usually charge only when I know I will rout a few (and cause a chain reaction) or if I have a significant manpower advantage and want to end the battle as quickly as possible.
Maybe these are all obvious and what you are doing already, but I tell you it works for me and I'm no military genius. Hard Sarge's AARs did make it seem deceptively easy but it's not as easy as it looks initially. I still think it will be easy once you get the hang of it which I think I quickly am (until I bump up to the next difficulty level at least). So stick at it and you will soon wonder why you ever thought it was hard.
Good luck.
PS One more thing, make sure you at least have muskets. I prefer Minie's as a minimum with all my troops and it makes a big difference too. But I've won battles with half my troops with improvised weapons too. It's just harder.
Anyway, the point being is that either there is something to the options you've selected making the results appear different than you expect or perhaps, simply, you are just doing something wrong.
Here's some tips playing the Union, first and foremost, lure the CSA to attack you so you get a morale bonus (I think it's up to +2!). Once you have a few battles under your belt your troops will be much better quality and you can go on the offensive. Furthermore, you should be able to replace losses quicker even if the casualty count isn't in your favor. If you are doing fine in the resources as you say you are, then you should buy troops, preferably in cities with training grounds but regardless, buying troops are much better quality that mustered or impressed troops.
When doing tactical battles, if there aren't vp hexes, line up so you are in the best possible terrain and let them come to you. Even if there are vp hexes, you can do this but you have to be more careful as if he captures them all, you rout. But terrain, especially hills or behind rivers, can add a big advantage (river prevent flanking bonus for example).
When firing, remember that the strength of your attack also depends on how many movement points a unit has in relation to his starting movement points. So if you are rushing up to attack and moving around and then spend your last 6 movement points on the attack, you will not have a very strong attack. Furthermore, his counterattack is at full strength so naturally he will blast you for more than you blast him. I tend to move just out of firing range and stop, let him move up on me and fire. He may get a decent shot but I'll get the most effective shot I can. Then, depending on my position, I won't move at all or move one space to try to get around his flank. I will send my reserve around his flanks in column formation, switch to line, and if I don't have enough mp's to fire, I will wait one or even two turns before I have them fire their first shot as I maneuver them in position.
Also, concentrate fire on one unit as if you make it rout, every unit of equal and lower quality than the one routed will take a big morale hit (I think higher quality take a hit to but it's half as much). If you are spreading your fire, you will get decimated.
I will admit I don't do very well with charges. I can't quite figure it out but I do know this, fatigued units suck at charges. Low morale units are likely not to complete the charge. I believe line charges are better than column but any charge in the flank (back three especially) will have a better chance than one in the front. If the enemy is disordered, your charge may not succeed but you are unlikely to take major casualties so you might want to try anyway. If you happen to displace a unit, charge it with others as it's obvious it's vunerable (my "flys to the crap theory"). Expect a countercharge if the enemy is the least bit ordered. For this reason alone I usually charge only when I know I will rout a few (and cause a chain reaction) or if I have a significant manpower advantage and want to end the battle as quickly as possible.
Maybe these are all obvious and what you are doing already, but I tell you it works for me and I'm no military genius. Hard Sarge's AARs did make it seem deceptively easy but it's not as easy as it looks initially. I still think it will be easy once you get the hang of it which I think I quickly am (until I bump up to the next difficulty level at least). So stick at it and you will soon wonder why you ever thought it was hard.

PS One more thing, make sure you at least have muskets. I prefer Minie's as a minimum with all my troops and it makes a big difference too. But I've won battles with half my troops with improvised weapons too. It's just harder.
RE: You are kidding me, right?
Very informative Joram. Any tips on strategy and economics? I play captain level with all options except rebel emancipation.
"I have never, on the field of battle, sent you where I was unwilling to go myself; nor would I now advise you to a course which I felt myself unwilling to pursue."
Nathan Bedford Forrest
Nathan Bedford Forrest
RE: You are kidding me, right?
I don't, yet, to be honest. I tend to take things slowly which may be ok for the Confeds but isn't for the Union. As the confeds, you have a huge advantage with the plantations so I build them whenever I need to and then fill in the space with mints or factories. I had my economy roaring by '63. I do my best to lure the enemy onto my battlegrounds but with Union, you need to take initiative quicker than I tend to do which means you will have to attack them on their terms.
RE: You are kidding me, right?
Thanks. I didn't play rebs yet but you have a point there about the union. You need totake initiative.
"I have never, on the field of battle, sent you where I was unwilling to go myself; nor would I now advise you to a course which I felt myself unwilling to pursue."
Nathan Bedford Forrest
Nathan Bedford Forrest
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- Posts: 52
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 7:48 pm
RE: You are kidding me, right?
Well, if you look at the Washington battle, it's not like my troops were moving, and I'm not playing with advanced buildings yet, so no training grounds are needed. Otherwise I did everything else you mentioned.
Marecone, the problem is that people like Hard Sarge are saying the Union can't really get moving until 1863. By 1863 the Union was close to zipping up the Mississippi, had taken major ports along the southern coast, had New Orleans, Kentucky, and was making serious advances on Tennessee. If I have to wait until 1863 to NOT get slaughtered on the field, the war will be lost from the get go.
Marecone, the problem is that people like Hard Sarge are saying the Union can't really get moving until 1863. By 1863 the Union was close to zipping up the Mississippi, had taken major ports along the southern coast, had New Orleans, Kentucky, and was making serious advances on Tennessee. If I have to wait until 1863 to NOT get slaughtered on the field, the war will be lost from the get go.
RE: You are kidding me, right?
Oh, I thought you were claiming that there were 171,000 Union troops in forts on the strategic map -- an impossibility, since it would require 28 Type III forts to contain all those men. What happened here is that you are fighting a battle in the Potomac River province, which is one of the provinces in the game that can have lots of forts in detailed battle. Sorry, we were talking apples and oranges.
Michael Jordan plays ball. Charles Manson kills people. I torment eager potential customers by not sharing screenshots of "Brother Against Brother." Everyone has a talent.