Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

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goodboyladdie
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by goodboyladdie »

ORIGINAL: Charles_22
ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

I continually use my Allied subs to lay mines in enemy ports. Aggressive skippers (with good Naval skill) often attack Jap ships while they are there. Targeting ports makes a lot of sense as you can guarantee some ships will end their turns in a port hex. It means that the Jap player is forced to run MSW tfs all over the place to try to keep his ports clear and also has to deploy ASW and LBA assets away from the front to try to stop you. It is proving to be more effective than setting up mobile patrol lines at choke points up to and including May '43 and I'd imagine it will remain effective as long as I keep an eye on where he is placing mines/ASW. It must be infuriating to load a ship, get it all the way to the receiving port only to have most of the cargo destroyed in a mine strike[:D]...

The other benefit is that the subs gain a lot of experience as a lot of transits to and from MLEs are involved.

It can be something of a problem though, especially with a major port, because the ship may be pretty difficult to destroy with major repair facilities readily available. Considering that, and the likelihood of major ASW forces around such ports, it would probably be more productive to sink them in the ordinary way at sea, or to mine ports which are more minor. I wouldn't dream of using the IJN subs on mining major ports. They have enough difficulty often enough from what I've seen getting away from the more minor ports unscathed.

Actually to be most effective in sub minelaying, my thoughts are that it's strategically of more importance also to not only pick a more minor port, but to also make sure that same port isn't being stalked by your own subs nearby. The idea is to cause the ASW assets to be spread more thinly, and in having patrolling ordinary mission subs nearby would be to quite possibly draw more traffic to the same port.

Funnily enough - I am happy to fill his yards up with ships that are damaged approaching/leaving port. If his yards are clogged with transports they are not repairing warships very quickly and are using up plenty of supply which could be used in production. The subs get in and out in one turn and the only losses/damage over six months of this strategy have been to mines (1 loss and 3 damaged I think for loads of mine hits and many successful torpedo and gun attacks). I am managing to keep most his major ports in the HI and DEI/PI/Indochina mined.
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Charles2222
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by Charles2222 »

Well that's a different way to think about it. It's just that with the IJN only having 4 of those subs, particularly if you enjoy the mining, it's even more important to keep them away from a lot of traffic. Speaking of your bottleneck strategy, it's too bad that people can't put ships into port and then designate only which ones they want to repair. So considering that, that particular aspect of your strategy ends up being kind of gamey doesn't it? But, you can't fault somebody for wanting to stir up things at a major base. It's just the game creates the gamey situation from it.
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goodboyladdie
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by goodboyladdie »

Yeah it could be considered gamey if it was the major aim of the strategy, but it's a by-product of me using my only effective weapon against his shipping at the most efficient place to target it due to the fact that the game engine does not allow attacks unless vessels end a move in the same hex. If Subs could attack ships that pass through their patrol areas during a turn, as would happen IRL, then it would not be necessary, but as my torps suck and my mines don't, it's the best option to achieve the aim of crippling the Nip's Merchant Navy. The fact that some clever Yank decided the way to go was to design mines that any sub could lay through a 21" tube deserves to be exploited to the full. It is war, after all...
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

Yeah it could be considered gamey if it was the major aim of the strategy, but it's a by-product of me using my only effective weapon against his shipping at the most efficient place to target it due to the fact that the game engine does not allow attacks unless vessels end a move in the same hex. If Subs could attack ships that pass through their patrol areas during a turn, as would happen IRL, then it would not be necessary, but as my torps suck and my mines don't, it's the best option to achieve the aim of crippling the Nip's Merchant Navy. The fact that some clever Yank decided the way to go was to design mines that any sub could lay through a 21" tube deserves to be exploited to the full. It is war, after all...


subs attack ships passing them.... seen it on and on... just put 4 or 5 subs in a row in a shipping lane and you will se that they attack ships in hexes the TFs didn´t end
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goodboyladdie
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by goodboyladdie »

That's handy to know. With radar in all my subs and good torpedoes soon to arrive a broadening of tactics will become profitable...[;)]
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FAdmiral
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by FAdmiral »

BTW, when do the torps that go BOOM 100% of the time when they hit
arrive in this game for the Americans? I could not find that info listed
in any of the manuals...

JIM
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ctangus
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by ctangus »

They never go boom 100% but the dud rate does decrease both in Jan '43 and again in Sept. '43 when the dud rate goes down to 10%. Check out section 6.125 in the manual.
Yamato hugger
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by Yamato hugger »

Most effective means I have found to use subs is as follows:

1) Put 3 (or more, I use 3) subs per TF.

2) Put a "good" commander in charge of the TF.

3) Park them on a path 4 or more hexes away from enemy bases.

4) Send in a single sub occasionaly to rotate out the most damaged ship or the one lowest on torpedos.

5) Dont put a seaplane sub in the TF with them. Im not 100% sure that the seaplane adds to the chance of a sub TF being sighted, but it seems to.

OK, why 3 subs per TF? Because contrary to popular belief, number of subs in the same TF does matter. Only 1 of them will attack, but they all count towards detecting enemy ships. You put them all in the same TF because multiple TFs adds to their detection level. Detected subs are near worthless. This is also the reason you park them 4+ hexes away from an enemy base. The further they are away, the harder it is to see them. For Jap subs, I park them 7+ hexes out.
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wdolson
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by wdolson »

One thing that is missing is a torpedo upgrade to the torpex torpedos in 1943. Torpex gave US submarine torpedos a lot more punch.

As someone else has already said, the decrease in dud rate is hard coded into the program.

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Sardaukar
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by Sardaukar »

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Most effective means I have found to use subs is as follows:

1) Put 3 (or more, I use 3) subs per TF.

2) Put a "good" commander in charge of the TF.

3) Park them on a path 4 or more hexes away from enemy bases.

4) Send in a single sub occasionaly to rotate out the most damaged ship or the one lowest on torpedos.

5) Dont put a seaplane sub in the TF with them. Im not 100% sure that the seaplane adds to the chance of a sub TF being sighted, but it seems to.

OK, why 3 subs per TF? Because contrary to popular belief, number of subs in the same TF does matter. Only 1 of them will attack, but they all count towards detecting enemy ships. You put them all in the same TF because multiple TFs adds to their detection level. Detected subs are near worthless. This is also the reason you park them 4+ hexes away from an enemy base. The further they are away, the harder it is to see them. For Jap subs, I park them 7+ hexes out.

True that. "Wolfpacks" do work in game just like that. Chances that sub will attack increases a lot when TF contains multiple subs. Multiple subs in same hex in different TFs is no-no, though. Detection level goes up a lot then..unlike when they are in one TF.
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marky
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by marky »

i like stickin em in ports then pullin em out[:D]
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marky
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RE: Question on submarine tactics (Allied)

Post by marky »

ORIGINAL: HansenII


So I suggest to keep your subs moving at all times.....but never on computer control!

Have fun...

heh

i got sick of micromanaging my boats so i put em all on computer comntrol with good and aggressive skippers

sinkings SKYROCKETED

it was the norm for my boats to torp 3-4 or even up to 6 or more ships a day sumtimes[:D]

the computer seems to place the boats RIGHT in the middle of shipping lanes [X(]

and my boats were just SLAUGHTERING jap ships
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