Bugs and stuff from v. 2.2

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Fri Mar 16, 2001 7:53 am

Marc, what you describe, much like the 'Replenish Bug' are more 'cheats' than 'bugs'. In order to do this (most of the time!) you will have to do it intentionally. Now, problems can arise in PBEM's, but, if your opponent is not trustworthy to begin with, there are many other things he can do to mess up the game.

Remember, this code is almost 10 years old, and is limited to 610K. There is only so much you can add to the code. I am pretty sure that this was not an addition to the program (ie. they added this bug), but most likely it was an unfortunate consequence of how they designed making TF's and how bases work. Hopefully something can be done about it.

Warpup · Post by **Warpup** » Sun Mar 18, 2001 11:33 pm

Just encountered a weird problem in version 2.2. It's January '43 in a '41 campaingn game in secure PBEM mode. I'm playing allied side. I looked at the pools and the lines for P-35, P-36, P-43, Vindacator, and Buffalo I, but not A-17 or F2A Buffalo, have all disappeared from the list, not just the planes, the whole line for those aircraft.

This would not be a problem at all, since I had switched all groups except one from any of those aircraft types. However, I did have one group of Vindacators which had a high experience level which I was using to use up the Vindacators in the pool. When the pool line vanished, my reason for keeping the Vindacators in action vanished with it, so I accessed the group to change them to Dauntless. Lo and behold, the change function would not work, although there are lots of Dauntless in the pool. Clicking of change just kicks me back to the group display and I get no display of aircraft to change the group to at all.

I don't even know if this group is going to function at all now. Fortunately, it's only one group, so it's not a game ending glich, but it still annoys me. Hopefully the group will still function in a static defense role.

Warpup · Post by **Warpup** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:10 am

Having an extreme problem with allied supply in India in a '41 secure PBEM campaign. I've got massive allied air cover in India and usually Dacca as well. My fighters snuff any Japanese raid from Port Blair on Columbo and India, so my opponent usually doesn't fly at all and has only launched a few probing raids there all game. It's February '43 and India and Dacca are showing up as isolated bases.

I'm thinking that what is happening is that my opponent has put a lot of air groups on his level 9 airbase at Port Blair to defend what he thinks is a comming British/Indian invasion (what a laugh) and that the resulting Air ZOC is so strong that it is causing India and Dacca to show up as isolated, even though they are massively defended by air groups and he hasn't bombed them.

Now this would be merely amusing if India functioned in version 2.2 the way Calcuta did in the old game, more as a supply source with its own pile of merchant ships and destroyers. Given the mass of supplies landing at Karachi and other ports on the west coast of the Indian subcontinent and moving from there eastward on the Indian rail transport system, this made sense. Maybe I'm wrong about how it functioned, since memory is fallible, and I'm not a programmer. But now India appears to only function as a consummer, and every other base in China, Burma, India absolutely depends on it. Having all these bases run out of supply is simply catastrophic.

If it was later in the war the allies could try to bomb Port Blair, but it's early '43 and there aren't enough long range allied fighters available yet to attempt that. It also takes supply to fly the bombers (!), and that's not plentiful in the current situation. Another option is to try to manually run supply from Columbo to India, but there's not enough supply on the island of Ceylon to supply all those bases and LCUs and air groups in China, Burma, India. It's impossible I believe, though I'm trying it.

In short, this is a potentially game crashing problem.

I think the problem may be due to the change of terrain level at Port Blair, combined with the inherent board edge problems from the original, and irrepairable, design of the Ceylon/India front. Now I can't argue that the Andaman Islands don't have more land area than the atoll terrain level 1 that the original design gave it. I don't know if the Andamans are just steaming jungle similar to Guadalcanal either, and I'll have to look that up. I can't even argue that the Japanese couldn't have built up the Andamans and attempted to control the Bay of Bengal completely by air and naval forces based there, as this was a possibility feared by the British. However, because of the designed board edge problems on this front, which grossly limit the flexibility of the British in their use of the entire Indian Ocean and of the Indian rail net, I think Port Blair should be given a terrain level of 1 or 9 in order to keep it from being unreasonably exploited by either side, given the severe limits of the game design on the Bay of Bengal front.

Mike Wood · Post by **Mike Wood** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 10:11 pm

Hello...

There are several obsolete aircraft that are removed from the pools in 1943. You found a couple of them.

Originally posted by Warpup:
Just encountered a weird problem in version 2.2. It's January '43 in a '41 campaingn game in secure PBEM mode. I'm playing allied side. I looked at the pools and the lines for P-35, P-36, P-43, Vindacator, and Buffalo I, but not A-17 or F2A Buffalo, have all disappeared from the list, not just the planes, the whole line for those aircraft.
This would not be a problem at all, since I had switched all groups except one from any of those aircraft types. However, I did have one group of Vindacators which had a high experience level which I was using to use up the Vindacators in the pool. When the pool line vanished, my reason for keeping the Vindacators in action vanished with it, so I accessed the group to change them to Dauntless. Lo and behold, the change function would not work, although there are lots of Dauntless in the pool. Clicking of change just kicks me back to the group display and I get no display of aircraft to change the group to at all.
I don't even know if this group is going to function at all now. Fortunately, it's only one group, so it's not a game ending glich, but it still annoys me. Hopefully the group will still function in a static defense role.

Hope this Helps...

Michael Wood

Manic Jester · Post by **Manic Jester** » Thu Mar 29, 2001 7:06 pm

I noticed that the 44th BG showed-up in S.F. with B-24's, and the production date of B-24's is more than a few turns away. Using the editor, I changed the type of aircraft to B-17's.

Why does the change command on heavy bomber groups not work?

MJ

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 3:31 am

Not sure if this is a bug or not but here goes because it is a big game impactor

Torpedo bomber loadouts.

I'm finding that more often than not that 75% - 90% of a strike's (Most Allied, some IJN)torpedo bombers lug 500ILB bombs instead of torpedoes.

The result of course is predictible. Ships that should have been nailed instead get off easy as most ship classes can take your average 500ILBer vs a torp in the belly.

I've tried playing around with the editor to see what might be the cause of this.

I've fiddled with;

the loadout rating of the T. Bomber
Leader ratings
Preperation points

none seemed to solve the problem

I then tried varying the range between 1 and 3 hexes, still no change.

I'm at a loss to figure out what is causing such a large preference for level bombing vs torpedo bombing.

Any ideas?

Manic Jester · Post by **Manic Jester** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 5:30 pm

C-47's are still dropping air supply on unimportant island bases. These bases have no LCU's, aircraft, or ships in port. They are depleting my supply dumps at forward command bases, and placing excessive supply dumps where there not needed. I Remember someone last year mentioned this problem, hope it gets fixed for the next patch.

MJ

Blackhorse · Post by **Blackhorse** » Fri Apr 06, 2001 12:00 pm

Major Tom,

I know you've discussed this on other threads, but I thought I'd mention it here as a reminder:

tweak the armor and artillery replacement levels. [Too much JA arty is produced, and, as you've discussed before, no armor].

1089 · Post by **1089** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 9:58 am

Hi--

In the Campaign '42 scenario, the Musashi never shows up. Since it is one of the two best IJN BBs, this is a big loss.

thanks,
kp

cyberwop · Post by **cyberwop** » Sun Jul 08, 2001 9:21 pm

Chinese get the first B-29 group. Maybe we should call this the Clinton Bug?

JustAGame · Post by **JustAGame** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 8:24 am

Originally posted by Warpup:
Just ...
This would not be a problem at all, since I had switched all groups except one from any of those aircraft types. However, I did have one group of Vindacators which had a high experience level which I was using to use up the Vindacators in the pool. When the pool line vanished, my reason for keeping the Vindacators in action vanished with it, so I accessed the group to change them to Dauntless. Lo and behold, the change function would not work, although there are lots of Dauntless in the pool. Clicking of change just kicks me back to the group display and I get no display of aircraft to change the group to at all.

This seems like it is more of a compatibility issue than a bug (although I'm not certain). Aircraft appear to be classified three different ways for the Allies. Those usable on carriers, those usable by the US Army (Nationality code #10) and those usable when it is not the US Army or a carrier. So, depending on the combination of the aircraft type, whether it is for CV assignment or not and the nationality of the air group, you find very different options among the air groups for their "new" aircraft. Assuming that there exists the possibility that your situation is not a bug, it could be that your vindicator air group has a "10" for it's nationality.

Dan in Toledo · Post by **Dan in Toledo** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 6:45 pm

I moved the 61st Militia division from Panay. I intended on moving to Manilla but it was too hot so I moved it to Soerabaja. When it got there, it became the 61st engr regiment that was attached the Imperial General HQ. I couldnt do anything with it. When I activated it, the PP came out of ABDA. The airfield was also expanded. Also they surrended when Soerabaja fell. But I couldnt move them or do anything else with them.

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 4:07 am

The same thing that happenned to Dan happenned to me. I evac'ed a ground unit (Aus I think, but I don't remember and the Computer picks the unit to load on an evac mission) from northeast Borneo (a Malay AG HQ), because the Japs just landed behind to the west. When the TF finally got to Darwin, the unit showed up as the 1/15th Engr, no nationality, attached to Imperial GHQ. Initially it had no squads, but it built back up. It wouldn't budge (could not load it onto a ship), so, I changed it to the 15th Engr, (Brit) and put it under SWPAC. It might not even have been an Evac TF, I can't remember, I didn't care, didn't lose much usage of the unit. but now I see that it wasn't a unique experience.
..
Also, Replenich TF sometimes won't replenish a TF. This happenned twice in one turn. I sent a TF from Nomeua to Pearl and one from Pearl to Nomeau (trying to sorf out CVs and CAs, etc (I wanted the Nothampton, Pensacola & Salt Lake City with the Enterprise & Yorktown). Of course at the end of the 1st leg, both TF's DDs were a 1 Fuel. I had Repl TFs sent out from each base and they were only 2-3 hexes from the AC TFs. They moved to the AC TFs but wouldn't refuel them. I had to manually tranfers the AOs into the AC TFs, replineish agan (this worked) and transferred the AOs back. OPain but it worked.
This might have been because the TF from Central Pac was trying to get fuel from a South Pac Repl TF and vice versa. A little Uncooperative spirit from the program???

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 4:28 am

Not a bug question, but related to Dan's note on the 61st Engineers surrendering when Sorebaja fell. I pulled all the Dutch air out of ABDA, most of it is now part of ANZAC, some in SEAC and SWPAC. Sorejbaja hasn't fallen yet, but it will soon, T\the Japs are one base away. When Sorebaja falls, will all my Dutch Air units dissappear? It would be good to know this in advance since that would leave a few Large holes in my air cover.
It also wasn't pleasant to see 2 new Dutch ship reinforcements get sunk trying to get away from Sorebaja 1st week in March '42. I guess that DD due in June will never arrive.

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 4:38 am

Cyberwop, the first B-29 groups were deployed to China because the planes were built and the squadrons formed before the bases were ready in the Marianas.

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 6:17 am

I made those B-29 groups as Chinese because those 4 groups served in China. Instead of giving all of the USAAF groups US denominations, where they would only serve in US bases, I decided to put some as other nationalities, so the AI would actually use them in Chinese bases. I changed them back to US for the next version.

Regarding the Jacob Van Heemskerk and the Issac Sweers, I changed their nationality to be British. This will get them appearing at Columbo instead of Sorebaya. Historically these ships served only with the British forces in the Indian Ocean. They were on their way to Java when it fell, and deverted to Columbo.

cyberwop · Post by **cyberwop** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 7:28 am

Thanks Mike and Major Tom, I din't know the 1st B-29 groups flew out of China.
I remember reading somewhere that the US was shocked that the Soviets produced an exact copy of the B-29 after the war.
That takes the mystery out of that mystery.

gdpsnake · Post by **gdpsnake** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:09 pm

To Nickademus,
I've found that on the first strike, most torpedo bombers carry torpedoes. It's a supply issue. On subsequent strikes, they run out of torps and carry bombs.
Leave an American carrier group out and watch how after a few attacks, the F6F starts carring rockets instead of bombs (when unopposed by air power). You'll also see other loads for dauntless and TBF/TBM. I'ts supply again. The ships only have so many weapons and then they run out. If you want your torpedo bombers to use more torpedos then keep going to port. Works for me.
A bug I found was the constant rebuild of allied units in India even when the base is owned by the Japanese. Since the IJN player can't travel into India, the allied units should not be allowed to arrive in a controlled base.
2002? Can I wait for the new one? So long......

Bibs · Post by **Bibs** » Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:18 am

I'm not sure if this is a bug or just an AI issue, but the computer player will send unescorted AP TFs at bases that are loaded
with enemy air groups. I can understand it happening once, but it will keep going at the same base despite the fact that the previous TFs were completely wiped out. In one game I played, the Computer Japanese sent 6 different AP TFs at Tricomalee in early 1942 with most being completely wiped out. Interestingly enough, it never bothered to send a Carrier or even Bombardment TFs to soften up the base which it easlly could have if that was the strategy. Even if it doesn't apply here due to AI limitations, it is certainly something to consider for WITP.

Dan in Toledo · Post by **Dan in Toledo** » Thu Jul 12, 2001 4:56 pm

In reply to Mike's note on the Dutch air units. NO they will not go away if ABDA collapes. Actually, you can move any of the Dutch units to Austalia and they will still be there when Soerabaja falls. Just because the base falls doesnt mean the units are gone.