"Cross of Iron": Yea or Nay?

[rich12545]

Well I played the first for years and now play the third.  The only hybrid part of it is how the turn is displayed.  BF's description likely refers to that.  It is a wego type turn based game. 

[rich12545]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Yeah -- the specific intent was to ask SPWaW players about CoI, not turn it into a "General Discussion"-type of thing.

HAHAHAHAAAAA

Btw, if you end up liking CC, you might also like Firefight since it includes the Pacific theater.

[FNG]

I am now quite a few battles into the 'Grand Campaign' and I am still enjoying it very much. It has also given an insight into some behaviours that we have all seen in SPWAW and made them seem more reasonable.

The best example is the 'spinning StuG of death', that instantly whips around through 180 degrees and fires at the infantry squad trying to assault from the nieghbouring building hex. This type of thing has frustrated the hell out of me in the past, but when you get down to the CoI scale, it suddenly gains some credibility.... A SPWAW hex is 50m wide, so in theory, your infantry could have to cover ~50m to get to the vehicle that they are assaulting.

Playing CoI, trying to cover that sort of distance will give the enemy AFV plenty of time to observe and engage you - I have taken to hiding in buildings and hoping they drive right past the window!

With regard to those who have posted against RTS stating that it is a click-fest, I must disagree in this particular case. You can give your troops multiple manoeuvre waypoints before the battle starts, set up support weapons covering specific arcs, lay ambushes, give fire orders to your indirect weapons, etc.

Your individual units are reasonably bright and will react appropriately to the changing environment. They will tell you, the battlefield commander, about how the situation is evolving and you have to act on that. It is not so much a click-fest, but it most certainly requires fast and direct thinking to adapt your plan to deal with the situation at hand.

One of my few gripes with SPWAW is that there are no real time pressures unless you use timers to create artificial ones. Being RT, CoI gives you that sense of immediacy while also giving you a decent UI that prevents it from becoming a click-fest. You have to think quickly and clearly at the tactical level to get major victories. I think the cap on the number of units also helps... many more and it would become very difficult to manage.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: FNG

The best example is the 'spinning StuG of death', that instantly whips around through 180 degrees and fires at the infantry squad trying to assault from the nieghbouring building hex. This type of thing has frustrated the hell out of me in the past, but when you get down to the CoI scale, it suddenly gains some credibility.... A SPWAW hex is 50m wide, so in theory, your infantry could have to cover ~50m to get to the vehicle that they are assaulting.

Playing CoI, trying to cover that sort of distance will give the enemy AFV plenty of time to observe and engage you - I have taken to hiding in buildings and hoping they drive right past the window!

With regard to those who have posted against RTS stating that it is a click-fest, I must disagree in this particular case. You can give your troops multiple manoeuvre waypoints before the battle starts, set up support weapons covering specific arcs, lay ambushes, give fire orders to your indirect weapons, etc.

Yes, i'll admit some of the time-movement abstractions in SP could be improved (such as the spinning StUG) I learned some hard lessons in Combat Mission from that since the combat is resolved in real time.....i would find myself getting taken in the flank etc. Once played the famous kill the KV scenario and despite having a whole platoon+ of tanks....i never seemed to be able to cover the distance needed to get to point blank range before the damn tank would kill half my force. [:D]

Nice to hear the game isn't a clickfest but....how do you cover all the action? I assume there's a pause feature?

One of my few gripes with SPWAW is that there are no real time pressures unless you use timers to create artificial ones. Being RT, CoI gives you that sense of immediacy while also giving you a decent UI that prevents it from becoming a click-fest. You have to think quickly and clearly at the tactical level to get major victories. I think the cap on the number of units also helps... many more and it would become very difficult to manage.

Thats part of the challenge and gripes of RT games IMHO. Yes, if your looking for that experience of having to make quick decision on your feet.......then RT (or a timed game in SPWAW) is for you. If your trying to just relax and take your time and enjoy the intelectual challenge without the adreneline kick....a turn based can be better (though even most RT games allow you to 'pause' to catch your breath.) Ironically....i've always felt that SP games have far too few turns per scenario for you to acomplish your objectives without having to rush (preventing proper tactics from being used)

lol...guess it's perceptions.

[FNG]

@ Nikademus

There is a pause feature, but you cannot give orders while paused (which I like). I agree entirely with your summary of the nature of RT and turn-based games... I have not until now been a great fan of RT, much preferring turn-based. I think that CoI captures the essence of small unit command and, by keeping the number of units relatively small, does not become unmanageable.

That said, after a nasty run-in with a KV-1 last night, I did have to play a few turns of SPWAW to chill out [;)]

[Krec]

Yes  and Yes!!

There is a small group of us that play nightly ,  always at least 3 ,  we have been beating the hell outta each other for years now.   we dont get too serious although there have been times when somebody blows a gaskets only to come back and go at it again.  we typically play 10-12 turns and about 3k , that way we can get a game in in 3-4 hours.  half the fun is buyin all the units. usually 10% arty,  latley we have banned arty above 170....although i slipped some 203s in recently and was reprimanded by high command for a ROE violation,  was still fun watchin those babys land.  if interested try icq  27609820 always looking for players

[Alby]

you guys still playin the old version?

[Krec]

we are using yor new updated ver. it rocks!![:D]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Krec

we are using yor new updated ver. it rocks!![:D]

Oh Matt said you guys were still on HTH
so which are you using , DV or DVRN?

[Krec]

DVRN i believe

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Krec

DVRN i believe

hmm I may have to join in then.