Why you don't launch at dusk

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: themattcurtis

It's a good study of the profiled officers. And I can't read enough about Leyte Gulf.

Here is another book on Leyte Gulf at Amazon.com:
*The Battle Of Leyte Gulf: The Last Fleet Action*

[wesy]

You should check out these books as well - good reads

Japanese Destroye Captain
Japanese Destroyer Captain

Sunburst
Sunburst

Kaigun - Strategies and Tactics
http://www.amazon.com/Kaigun-Strategy-T ... 660&sr=1-1

[LarryP]

I put them on my Wish List, thanks! Here is a good one (at least it is a 5 star) about the US side of the wars from 1897-1945:
*War Plan Orange*

[themattcurtis]

The Japanese version of utopia usually involved only those people who were willing to do exactly what the Japanese wanted them to do. Any resistance to the envisioned utopia was typically violently suppressed.

Not saying I wanted to live in a 1930s Japanese "Utopia." Especially not in northern China.

I was stationed in Japan for a couple of years in the late 90s. I loved the country. And the people were friendlier than all get out (one of the funniest things I ever saw was a strike by the base civilian personnel where they all sat in neat, orderly rows in plastic chairs in front of the main gate).

But even then it was a little alarming how un-apologetic they were about what happened in China. There were articles all the time about how Japanese schools were downplaying the reasons behind the conflict, and how officials were still disputing what actually happened in Nanking. I'm not saying you should brow beat people for something their grandparents and great-grandparents did 70 years ago. But don't deny it, either.

Didn't mean to turn the thread into a sermon. Sorry.

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: themattcurtis

Didn't mean to turn the thread into a sermon. Sorry.

You didn't, and besides, I like some sermons. You were there and information like this is interesting! Extremely. If we were in the same room I would ask you lots of questions about being in Japan. [&:]

[DSteckel]

Toland's book is a great overview of the Pacific War.  I was really fascinated to read the prologue to Pearl Harbor.  I've always been quite a student of the European theater and was unaware of all the intrigue, plotting, and coups taking place in Japan throughout the 30s.  After reading that section, I could clearly see that no Westerner at that time could even begin to comprehend the Japanese mindset without experiencing it first-hand. 
 
My favorite section so far of Toland's book is the description of the first skip-bombing attack (Battle of the Bismarck Sea, 3.March.1943).  It must have been the most incredible sight to be in the nose of one of those Mitchells hugging the waves, pouring stream after stream of .50-cal into the transports, and, at the last second, releasing and skipping a bomb into their hulls, to feel the roar and concussion toss your plane a few seconds later.
 
Great action shot on Wikipedia of just such an attack:  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/B-25s_in_New_Guinea.jpg
And here's another one by a Havoc: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/A20BismarckSea.jpg

[Panther Bait]

ORIGINAL: LarryP

I wrote these books down. Thanks! I will check on them online. It seems like I saw the series in one of my History or Armchair General magazines and they were quite expensive. Bunch of books though and hardcover.

The re-released the History of the United States Naval Operations series in something lie 2001-2002 in trade paperback. Amazon.com and BarnesandNoble.com offer them for about $10 US each. Not cheap, but less expensive than the hardcover editions. The multi-volume format allows you to pick and choose a bit as well, depending on your interest:

Volume 1 - Battle of the Atlantic (Sept 1939 to May 1943)
Volume 2 - Operations in North African Waters (October 1942 - June 1943)
Volume 3 - Rising Sun in the Pacific (1931 to April 1942, including Pearl Harbor and the initial invasions)
Volume 4 - Coral Sea and Midway (plus Aleutians and Sub actions through early 1943)
Volume 5 - Struggle for Guadalcanal (Aug 1942 - Feb 1943) **Battles of Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz
Volume 6 - Breaking the Bismarks (July 1942 - May 1944 - Solomons and New Guinea)
Volume 7 - Aleutians, Gilberts and the Marshalls (June 1942 - April 1944)
Volume 8 - New Guinea and the Marianas (March 1944 to August 1944)
Volume 9 - Siciliy, Solerno, Anzio (Jan 1943 - June 1944)
Volume 10 - Battle of the Atlantic (May 1943 - May 1945)
Volume 11 - D-Day + the Continental war in Europe 1944-1945
Volume 12 - Leyte Gulf (June 1944 - Jan 1945) **Battle of Leyte Gulf is in this volume
Volume 13 - Liberation of the Philippines (Luzon, Mindanao, etc. 1944-1945)
Volume 14 - Victory in the Pacific (Iwo Jima and Okinawa)
Volume 15 - Supplements

[sullafelix]

Be very careful of Toland. I met the man and was at a talk that was sponsored by some vets. He claimed to be the only person qualified to write about the japanese side of things because of all the info he was given at the end of WW2. He was stationed in Japan as an army historian or some such thing. I asked him during the question and answer period, how come so many new writers come up with completely different views ( Hirohito's involvement etc. ) after having read the same sources as he did. He shrugged and asked for any other questions.
 
I believe he was either fed the "official" japanese line or was told to accept it as fact. I for one always believed that Hirohito was neck deep in the war. I also believe that the histories that I have read over the last 20+ years haved proved it. I also believe ardently if we had not asked for unconditional surrender( what nation in their right mind would ever except that until absolutely necessary) and gave assurances that the emperor would remain.That the war would have ended much sooner.
 
He's still a good read I just don't know how much needs to be reevaluted after alsmost 40 years since it was printed.

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: sulla05

Be very careful of Toland. I met the man and was at a talk that was sponsored by some vets. He claimed to be the only person qualified to write about the japanese side of things because of all the info he was given at the end of WW2. He was stationed in Japan as an army historian or some such thing. I asked him during the question and answer period, how come so many new writers come up with completely different views ( Hirohito's involvement etc. ) after having read the same sources as he did. He shrugged and asked for any other questions.

I believe he was either fed the "official" japanese line or was told to accept it as fact. I for one always believed that Hirohito was neck deep in the war. I also believe that the histories that I have read over the last 20+ years haved proved it. I also believe ardently if we had not asked for unconditional surrender( what nation in their right mind would ever except that until absolutely necessary) and gave assurances that the emperor would remain.That the war would have ended much sooner.

He's still a good read I just don't know how much needs to be reevaluted after alsmost 40 years since it was printed.

It does seem strange to me the amount of detail he has in each circumstance. Like he was actually standing there watching and taking notes. How does one get such information at such a large volume? He even goes into detail on how individuals felt emotionally that were soon murdered, like how does he know? Your outlook makes sense to me. Treating your question like that is quite suspicious.

[Panther Bait]

In my opinion, any history book should be treated as the author's opinion of what happened, and not fact.  There is always interpretation made when someone writes about events they did not personally witness, or even for that matter, events that they did witness (from a single point of view).  As the reader, you need to internally evaulate what you read and figure out how much faith you want to put in it. 
 
Many history books are not started as a dry recitation of facts or at an attempt to provide all possible interpretations of the events.  Instead, they start with the author's theory about how things "really" happened, and the author tries to show how the available facts support his case. 
 

[themattcurtis]

Exactly. The only book I felt the need to be "careful" around was a title on 2nd SS Pnzr. Division where the author kept trying to explain why the Germans felt justified in mowing down the better part of a French village in '44 due to ambushes by the resistance. When the author tells me what I NEED to understand and then just blows the incident off, I don't put any value on his work.

[Paul Vebber]

re Leyte Gulf.

The Naval War College Prof that teaches a full course on that battle just put all his class materials into print last year as:

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Leyte-1944 ... 082&sr=1-6

Not the best "big picture" treatment, but has details you can get no where else.

[LarryP]

I put it on my Wish List. Thanks.

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

In my opinion, any history book should be treated as the author's opinion of what happened, and not fact. There is always interpretation made when someone writes about events they did not personally witness, or even for that matter, events that they did witness (from a single point of view). As the reader, you need to internally evaulate what you read and figure out how much faith you want to put in it.

Many history books are not started as a dry recitation of facts or at an attempt to provide all possible interpretations of the events. Instead, they start with the author's theory about how things "really" happened, and the author tries to show how the available facts support his case.

Excellent advice. I will keep this in mind while adventuring off into this new history realm I have entered. History is new to me as I hated it in school. Funny how things change when you get older. [;)]

Thank you.