Dragoon Tactics/Oblique Fire WAD?

[Hard Sarge]

figures, I write a nice long detail report, and the forum crashes out on me

oh well

Mus
no hassle, no harm done, we back to being on the same step now

so, yes, I know all about it and how it can be used or misused, I am the so called Hew War expert, I can do things in HW that border on the unreal, but I didn't want to get into that, as it sounds like bragging, and I do not like to bragg

but really, DT is a good reseach to have, early-mid game/war, most Cav is going to be understrengthed, so the best use for it, is to get in, do damage and get out, if you stay in place, you are going to end up taking damage and losses you can not replace for a while (sure you may win this battle, but then be in a state that you do not want to fight the next)(I almost alway think long term, this battle is not importent, it is the next one that may be)

by the time you get to the point you are talking about, Tactics are not really needed any more, just a standard march forward and fire is going to win most battles

it can be over used, abused, yes, but the way you say you can take POWs with 3 or 4 Cav units sounds like you also abuse the camp system in the game, Cav for a long time, will never be able to split, and the damage taken in combat should be kept to as few as you can get away with (note, Abuse is a Harsh word for a game, it is in the game, so it is fair to use it, just because players will use it in ways the designer did not plan on, does not mean it is wrong)

Combos, there are some good ones out there, there are a few, that once I see the AI is useing it, that BDE is dead, I will slaughter half of my troops to be sure it does not get away to fight another day, and as a ex Marine, let me say, I hate taking losses, I hate taking losses for a good reason, I hate taking losses for any reason, so for me to say I am willing to take heavy losses to take out a unit, means something

overall, I don't think I need to give my ideas on what makes good or deadly combos, just read what the addons give you or watch them in action, you will be able to tell what works and what don't

LOL and some of them are plain killers backward if you get them,

question on the Cav should be able to charge after they fire ? they can ? (that is also a addon you can get, great when it works, but most times it happens just when you really do not want it to)

[Hard Sarge]

Hard Sarge is the Tom Bombadil of "Forge of Freedom" detailed combat -- he was there in the beginning, and knows every root and every stone and every stream.

Greesh, I have been called a lot of things in my day, but never been called Tom Bombadil before

ahhh, should of saved that old map, I really liked fighting for HARD_Sargeville, of course, HARD_Sargepoint, and HARD_Sargeden, and HARD_Sargebluff were a little much

(all I asked for was HARD_Sargeville)

in fact, I still got the one with HARD_Sargeville as one of the towns

[Joram]

I guess I'm surprised that this seems to be an issue.  Because first of all, you have to keep them supplied.  Second, there's fatigue which can happen anytime you fire (I think!), and third, I seem to remember a rule about the damage being in direct proportion to the amount of movement points you have left compared to initial.  So theoretically, all other factors left even, your second shot would only be half strength (assuming at rest initially) and your third shot would only be one quarter strength.  And if you move more than a few hexes, you would only get two shots and then be stuck in place, possibly with your own flanks exposed.
 
While not being the HW expert like HardSarge, I don't see it as being overpowered. 
 
 

[Hard Sarge]

well

depending on what is going on, and what you hit

you hit a full army on the march, I would say, it is best to get in and get out, as you are going to get caught if you don't

but if you can hit a single or a few BDEs, then, yes, it may be worth it to stay in place and do as much damage as you can at that one time

which, I can say, I have hit and stayed in place and I have hit and run, I have also, just kept moving, and forceing the enemy to keep reacting and changing there front to keep me in view

in the long run, at times, it is best to do it like that, keep the enemy confused and reacting to what you may do, then to have it react to what you do, do (lol, that sounds just so wrong)

and at times, you can keep a Div confused and out of the main battle with only 1 or 2 Bdes of Cav, with out ever having to close in and fire

[Joram]

Exactly, you can tie up a lot of forces by marching and countermarching without ever having to fire.  I use that tactic to great effect and don't need Dragoon Tactics to do it.
 

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

it can be over used, abused, yes, but the way you say you can take POWs with 3 or 4 Cav units sounds like you also abuse the camp system in the game, Cav for a long time, will never be able to split, and the damage taken in combat should be kept to as few as you can get away with (note, Abuse is a Harsh word for a game, it is in the game, so it is fair to use it, just because players will use it in ways the designer did not plan on, does not mean it is wrong)

Well I do use other units to help them surround stuff, but the Cavalry runs to all the distant spots. I dont really know what you mean by abusing the camp system, I dont go nuts like the AI does with the camps but I do like to get around 8-10k in reinforcements a turn.

I mainly use Cavalry Bureau to make sure I can use my Cavalry this aggressively. Usually at the end of a big battle each Cav bde has caused 3000-4000 casualties and lost around 700-800. The only other units that generally can keep up with that is Artillery, which is a great deal more expensive, whether produced or created from attachments, than Cav.

ORIGINAL: Joram

Because first of all, you have to keep them supplied. Second, there's fatigue which can happen anytime you fire (I think!), and third, I seem to remember a rule about the damage being in direct proportion to the amount of movement points you have left compared to initial. So theoretically, all other factors left even, your second shot would only be half strength (assuming at rest initially) and your third shot would only be one quarter strength.

Supplying them isnt really an issue. You can blow off all their supply in one or two turns depending on how you move and shoot them and then run them back to caissons and resupply in one turn. Fatigue is hit or miss, but it inevitably happens, especially when I use Force March to get an extra attack, which is part of what makes it seem OP to me. There is a reduction in damage from moving, but generally speaking I try to make all these attacks into the rear flank or rear of the infantry bde Im targeting. The first shot is almost always an overdamage shot that blows the targeted bdes morale pretty good and the second and third are still really respectable in terms of damage done.

ORIGINAL: Joram

And if you move more than a few hexes, you would only get two shots and then be stuck in place, possibly with your own flanks exposed.

Generally what I do is move as close as possible without being adjacent, form line and change facing. Next turn I go forward a hex and start the attacks. With quality horses fast attribute and a general with a good amount of bonus move I think you can get 4 attacks but I dont have detailed notes and oftentimes Im just clicking as fast as I can to get the attacks over with quickly. If its only 3 it still adds up to a bunch of casualties and morale loss.

The flanks being exposed doesnt hurt as much as you think because of the line "Defender is Cavalry" in the attack report. I might take a decent hit in return but generally speaking do a bunch more damage than I take by leaving them exposed.

I guess for me, bottom line is, if the AI makes use of DT/Oblique Fire the way a human would its only a minor game imbalance. If it doesnt utilize it correctly it makes for a pretty good advantage for the human player.

There are some combinations out there that do more damage in a single shot than this combo, but none seem to equal the total damage this combo can do in one turn, plus its speed and relatively low cost.

PS. I just had a battle where one of my cavalry bdes shot a 500 overdamage with the first shot, then a 300 overdamage volley with the second. I also confirmed that you can sometimes get conditions right for 4 shots.