Patch ETA?

[decaro]

First things first; I both understand and agree that bug fixes are the #1 priority, but I assume additional scenarios will eventually be coming via another patch.

So what historical things did you see in the US? Ideas for a new game?

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

First things first; I both understand and agree that bug fixes are the #1 priority, but I assume additional scenarios will eventually be coming via another patch.

So what historical things did you see in the US? Ideas for a new game?

You know what happens when you "assume".

If we get anymore scenarios, great. But expecting them in a patch could lead to self-inflicted disappointment. And that is not good for anybody.

[Gregor_SSG]

In one way I think its fantastic that people are asking for more scenarios, it shows that the really liked the game and are keen to keep playing. Nobody would be doing that for a bad game.

On the other hand, language, as it often does on the net, seems to be getting a little intemperate. I don't see how anything we have done merits the use of the word 'shameful'. The new CAW shipped with the same scenarios as the original game, it was great value then and great value now and nobody was mislead about the content that shipped with the game.

In one way, we are a victim of our success. The game ships with great replayability, due in great part to the WarRoom AI, which I still think is the best AI opponent in any wargame. Read the posts on the forum where the AI crushed veteran wargamers if you don't believe me. That doesn't usually happen.

For those of you who have the game, I invite you to take a look at the WarRoom editor. Making a WarRoom set for a scenario is not a simple task, it takes time to create and time to test.

Now we could have written a basic AI for this game which would have required only minimal effort on the part of the scenario creator. In order to achieve even a semblance of parity it would have cheated like crazy, as most AIs do, but even with the cheating it would have been a pale shadow of the WarRoom system, and good gamers would have blown it apart pretty quickly. However, it would have made scenario creation much quicker! We didn't do that and I don't seriously think that anyone wants us to turn into a creator of wargaming sausages.

So can I just say that SSG has a long history of supporting its games and listening to its users, but we are a small company and some things, usually the best things, take time.

Gregor

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
First things first; I both understand and agree that bug fixes are the #1 priority, but I assume additional scenarios will eventually be coming via another patch ...

You know what happens when you "assume".
If we get anymore scenarios, great. But expecting them in a patch could lead to self-inflicted disappointment. And that is not good for anybody.

What exactly do you mean by "self-inflicted disapointment," and how is that going to happen w/a patch?

And if not a patch, how will we get any more scenarios from SSG? Are you expecting an add-on installment? If so, you'll be paying for it, and a number of players have already complained that they have paid enough.

I bought a boxed set and feel I've spent enough for now, but after investing in the stock market, I'm patient enough to wait and see if the new CaW interface becomes an investment, not just a game.

[Scott_WAR]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.


And if not a patch, how will we get any more scenarios from SSG? Are you expecting an add-on installment? If so, you'll be paying for it, and a number of players have already complained that they have paid enough.

If they try to charge us for scenarios that should have been included to begin with for the price we were charged, I think SSG will find itself on a lot of peoples list of companies to never buy from again.

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

The new CAW shipped with the same scenarios as the original game, it was great value then and great value now

I keep hearing "The number of scenarios are the same as in the original release"

Video games have come a long way since the original CaW was released. Technolgy has improved dramatically, AI has improved, nearly all aspects of video gaming has improved, but this new release takes advantage of so few of those advancements. Honestly its only improvements are graphics, the interface, and multiplayer.
Graphics are not up to todays standards, not for a full priced game. Multiplayer is a joke because there are no scenarios even remotely balanced for multiplayer. The interface is one thing that was well improved, but an updated interface doesnt justify the price.

Simply put, if we are expected to pay full price for a game we expect that game to be up to the standards of other games charging full price. Comparitively speaking, this game is a budget title that should have cost roughly $19.99 or at the very most $29.99 and that would be pushing it. To release this and think we, the customers, are going to be happy to pay full price, goes a long way to explain why some SSG employees seem to be baffled as to why the customers are complaining. Value......... it was a great value then,... its not now, not at the same price as it was then. Not for the exact same game with a little make up added.

[Igbe]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

ORIGINAL: Joe D.


And if not a patch, how will we get any more scenarios from SSG? Are you expecting an add-on installment? If so, you'll be paying for it, and a number of players have already complained that they have paid enough.

If they try to charge us for scenarios that should have been included to begin with for the price we were charged, I think SSG will find itself on a lot of peoples list of companies to never buy from again.

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

The new CAW shipped with the same scenarios as the original game, it was great value then and great value now

I keep hearing "The number of scenarios are the same as in the original release"

Video games have come a long way since the original CaW was released. Technolgy has improved dramatically, AI has improved, nearly all aspects of video gaming has improved, but this new release takes advantage of so few of those advancements. Honestly its only improvements are graphics, the interface, and multiplayer.
Graphics are not up to todays standards, not for a full priced game. Multiplayer is a joke because there are no scenarios even remotely balanced for multiplayer. The interface is one thing that was well improved, but an updated interface doesnt justify the price.

Simply put, if we are expected to pay full price for a game we expect that game to be up to the standards of other games charging full price. Comparitively speaking, this game is a budget title that should have cost roughly $19.99 or at the very most $29.99 and that would be pushing it. To release this and think we, the customers, are going to be happy to pay full price, goes a long way to explain why some SSG employees seem to be baffled as to why the customers are complaining. Value......... it was a great value then,... its not now, not at the same price as it was then. Not for the exact same game with a little make up added.

Mostly a lurker and almost never a poster but I wanted to jump in and just say "Great Post".

This was my first purchase from Matrix Games and to be frank unless something changes very quickly on the CaW front, this will be my last purchase. What a great game, but waste of money due to limited scenarios. This is not a console game where 10 - 15 hours is the norm. CaW was billed as a WAR game, not many war games I have played have such a lack of content. I would not go as far and say the game is shameful. The pricing is shameful. I really don't care how many scenarios came with the original game vs. how many are in the current version. The fact of the matter is you can only play the same scenarios so many times before you are bored to death. An updated interface is not worth $49.95, period!

Gregor_SSG you wanted us to check out the war-room editor, you claim it is very hard. I have not checked it out, nor am I going to. I will say though that if the war-room editor is so hard, that's your problem and not the customers issue. Make a better editor and this would be a none issue because the community would have provided the scenarios you didn't.

I am going to take a guess that any new scenarios from your guys are going to cost and that will just add to the anger here. You wont get a dime out of me unless you add content that should of been in place to start with.

Lastly, how long does it take to test an installer? I will be dead before you release a patch for this game. Bottom line. Great game, poorly supported currently, shameful pricing.

Igbe

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Honestly its only improvements are graphics, the interface, and multiplayer.

I do acknowledge some of the points you guys are making, but really.. how many times have we heard "all we WANTED was improved graphics, UI and multiplayer!", or words to that effect, in relation to sequels and assorted re-releases?!!

SSG must think they can't win.

[MarkShot]

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

The new CAW shipped with the same scenarios as the original game, it was great value then and great value ...

I very well understand the plight of small game development companies. However, I do not think trying to make a value proposition between the original game of 15 years ago and today is very relevant.

Assuming that I am wrong meaning that such a comparison is valid and meaningful, then it would also imply that those truly interested in the product should also measure this release against the still readily available $32.50 USD CCAW which runs flawlessly under a few different versions of DOSBOX (and even directly under XP itself) .... a bound printed manual is included along with something like 50 scenarios.

My point is ... I don't think you really want to make such a comparison. CAW-2007 value needs to be measured against the 2007 market and its expectations. The fact that the game and company have a proven track record is a wonderful legacy, but it is not itself sufficient to be the primary determinant of value or driver of sales.

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

My point is ... I don't think you really want to make such a comparison. CAW-2007 value needs to be measured against the 2007 market and its expectations. The fact that the game and company have a proven track record is a wonderful legacy, but it is not itself sufficient to be the primary determinant of value or driver of sales.

Indeed, a very realistic and poignant critique. In today's modern society everyone and everything is expected(demanded) to evolve

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

What exactly do you mean by "self-inflicted disapointment," and how is that going to happen w/a patch?

And if not a patch, how will we get any more scenarios from SSG? Are you expecting an add-on installment? If so, you'll be paying for it, and a number of players have already complained that they have paid enough.

Joe,

"Self-inflicted disappointment" means it seems you you are building yourself up for a POSSIBLE let down if SSG does not do what you "assume" they will do.

I paid the same price as you for this game (actually this is 2nd CAW I have bought as I owned the first many years ago) . The number of scenarios was known by doing research ahead of time. Would I like more, yes. Do I feel cheated, no.

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
The fact that the game and company have a proven track record is a wonderful legacy

That, IMHO, is their biggest mistake with the release of CAW. We have all grown accustomed to SSG's "service" and "support" and were expecting some extra content with Battlefront which never came yet they alluded to. Now with CAW we have a similar situation and i don't think customers are going to take it for granted the next time they spend full price for a game, instead many will become wary of yet another game which has only a limited amount of substance(albeit excellent) and in the long run sales will diminish resulting in less sales/games.

[decaro]

OK, let's "go right to the source and ask the horse," as we used to say here when TV was (only) in black & white.

(For the record, I'm also old enough to remember most of the lyrics to the theme song for Flipper, although I can't recall anything Irish about that fish. Flipper was like a wet Lassie, only in color).

Gregor,

We understand that SSG is currently working on a patch that will fix a number of bugs and features, i.e, the premature hit and miss results during the attack animation, etc.

But will SSG make more scenarios for C@W, and if so, how will we (owners) get them?

There, that should do it. Now all we have to do is wait for a reply.

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

We understand that SSG is currently working on a patch that will fix a number of bugs and features, i.e, the premature hit and miss results during the attack animation, etc.

But will SSG make more scenarios for C@W, and if so, how will we (owners) get them?

There, that should do it. Now all we have to do is wait for a reply.

Yeah, we wanna know right boys?! "All aboard, Ha ha ha ha..."

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

OK, let's "go right to the source and ask the horse," as we used to say here when TV was (only) in black & white.

(For the record, I'm also old enough to remember most of the lyrics to the theme song for Flipper, although I can't recall anything Irish about that fish. Flipper was like a wet Lassie, only in color).

Gregor,

We understand that SSG is currently working on a patch that will fix a number of bugs and features, i.e, the premature hit and miss results during the attack animation, etc.

But will SSG make more scenarios for C@W, and if so, how will we (owners) get them?

There, that should do it. Now all we have to do is wait for a reply.

Joe,

You're making progress here. First off, I guess your description of Flipper being a wet Lassie would not be inaccurate as such. But being Irish is much MORE than a nationality, it is "a way of life". All dolphins are Irish, they are mankinds best friend in the water.

And I think your question for SSG is a much better approach than "assumming" anything.
We may or may not like the answer, but I believe it is a fair question.

Be well,

[Gregor_SSG]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

OK, let's "go right to the source and ask the horse," as we used to say here when TV was (only) in black & white.

(For the record, I'm also old enough to remember most of the lyrics to the theme song for Flipper, although I can't recall anything Irish about that fish. Flipper was like a wet Lassie, only in color).

Gregor,

We understand that SSG is currently working on a patch that will fix a number of bugs and features, i.e, the premature hit and miss results during the attack animation, etc.

But will SSG make more scenarios for C@W, and if so, how will we (owners) get them?

There, that should do it. Now all we have to do is wait for a reply.

Yes, we will be making more scenarios for CAW. Any free scenarios will be made available for download, perhaps on our website or perhaps just done as a patch so as to get the widest possible distribution. I'm not going to make any announcements about the timing of a free scenario until I have it ready for release, this policy is designed to minimise fruitless speculation and to give us the time to make sure things are right.

We haven't decided on the form of any future retail releases of CAW product but we would like to do something when the time is right.

We have made a number of changes to increase replayability in the patch. There is a new Random Selection variant which means that you don't know what variant you are playing. In order to fully exploit this there are now 38 variants for Coral Sea, so there's no way you can tell what forces the enemy has just by looking at your own. We will do multiple variants for the other scenarios as well, and release them when we can, but it takes time.

Gregor

[Scott_WAR]

Very good to hear, especially the variant thing, that will make a difference right away. As long as you are making progress I for one am not too worried about the time it takes. While I would like to have it all tomorrow I am very content to wait if it means it is done right.

[RayWolfe]

Gregor, I thhink what Scott_WAR means is "thankyou".
Cheers
Ray

[Erik2]

Glad to see that more scenarios will be available and I'm prepared to wait for them, but paying extra I think will not be a good move on SSG's part. To speed up the scenario process users with access to the CCAW-scenarios could submit straight conversions and let SSG add new bits plus of course do a quality check.
Users familiar with Matrix have come to expect that re-releases/new versions of older games do have a bit of extra compared to the originals.
TOAW-3 included all scenarios from the various eariler editions as well as fixes and a few enhacements.
The Campaign series bundled 3 games with all scenarios into one and added some xtra goodies.
I expect the Battlergound series will be handled the same way as well.

[decaro]

Well, a straight forward answer to a direct question; what more can you ask from a forum moderator? As for the rest of us, now is probably a good time to sit back and let SSG do its thing.

Re randomness/replayability: I thought this was an issue in C@W until I played the same scenaio 5X in a row: it never played the same way twice. Has anyone else experienced this?

More variants for existing scenarios are fine, but I am really looking forward to more new scenarios, even if they are all in the same theater of operations.

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

Yes, we will be making more scenarios for CAW.

Gregor

Can we quote you? Oops, too late[;)]. Thank you! Great news and a very welcome response, nobody likes to speculate...For instance, in the first sentence you state "Yes, we will be making more scenarios for CAW". In a latter sentence you state "I'm not going to make any statements about the timing of a free scenario"...hmmm...You went from "scenarios(plural) to scenario(single)...okay, okay...no more speculation[:D][;)].