WinXP widens lead over Vista

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Adam Parker
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by Adam Parker »

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, that's hardly news. Vista is a horrible piece of garbage.

To the contrary and statements like this nearly put me off going with Vista. I implore those looking for a new PC to ignore them.

I'm loving my entire Vista Ultimate experience. Not one crash, niggle or hiccup.

I don't build my own systems, I don't mod them or tweak them. I order what I want and I get a vendor who knows what they're doing to sell it to me. And I'm reaping the benefits.

Every peripheral including my 2 year old iPaq sync and work smoothly plug and play.

Norton and my other AV/Anit-Malware programs run sweetly. My games run fine. OS boots and loads rapid fire, programs, mail, web run lightning fast.

Bottom line: If you're going to buy a new PC get it with Vista Business or better and get good hardware to match. To get an idea of what you need, just pick up the boxes of the games out this month - Bio Forge, Crysis etc:

1. Dual Core or better.
2. 2Gig Ram or better.
3. nVidia 8600 or better.

These specs are dirt cheap today and after the Xmas buying period they'll be even cheaper as DDR3 Ram, quad core and nVidia 9000 cards swamp the market first half of 2008. Get these specs and you'll find Vista outshines XP as the servant that runs what you need. It looks and feels better in every way.

Adam.
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ravinhood
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by ravinhood »

Thing is if you look back in time these same games we see today aren't much different they are still 1mb to 5mb of game and then 995,999mb of graphics. And Bio Forge and Crysis? pfft worthless poc games that are only good for one run through and then they are done. So, some idiots spend $4000 to play stupid games like that on a stupid OS that isn't required when you aren't interested in games like that..big deal that's hardly worth upgrading for childish silly games like that. I'm just not one who ewwws and ahhhhhs over graphics and them having to be at some reality level of perception. I just got 18 Wheels of Steel Across America 2002 model game and the graphics are just fine I don't need anymore improvement to "play the game". I have Oblivion and I see no reason to increase the quality of those graphics....so why the need to push graphics any futher?

The other thing and concerning Vista is that you have to know that the majority of your computer users just like console users are pretty much idiots and morons. They don't want to have to READ anything. That was the whole point of Win95/98/Me and XP a SIMPLE OS where all the user had to do for the most part was just PLUG n PLAY no reading 500 page manuals or things of that like. XP for the most part was pretty stable, the major issues with XP out of the box were security issues and worms and viruses forging their way in. The other issue with XP is it wouldn't run a lot of old software that was made for Win95/98 I could forgive it that it didn't run many dos games, but, the Win95/98 ones were hard to swallow. Now as an "intelligent" computer user I was able to figure out how to get many games that didn't work to work on XP. You're average common joe computer guy didn't and doesn't want to mess with trying to figure it out or even search out a way on the internet, nope, he wants plug n play. And it's even worse with Vista now. It's why your average common joe guy wants the new powerful hardware, but, doesn't want the ignorant OS of Vista and thus why XP is beating Vista still in the marketplace. Vista doesn't offer enough of the new and improved to warrant a purchase to the average joe computer person. It might for businesses (though even that doesn't appear apparent) and your drooling graphics artists, but, that's about it. I can live with XP until wargames and strategy games require it and it alone and they had better have AI's out of this world and not just some graphics facelifts of previous games.

Think about it would you really buy a Battles in Normandy 2 or Battles in Italy 2 just because they improved the graphics to directx 10.X? lol I think only idiots would do that. What wargame or strategy game do you have now that you think needs a 2008 graphics facelift anyways or in need of Vista OS to play? Most of the ones we would like to see updated we want to be able to play on XP and todays graphics and hardware are just fine for those updates we just don't need Vista OS or 2008 graphics capabilitys.

Main thing is the consumer joe just needs to stop following the pied piper. Just because Joe Blow got Vista doesn't mean Joe average everyday should get Vista. Joe Blow is  geek and Joe Average everyday is just your normal average everyday consumer who likes to stay all comfy in his secure and warm blankey of XP. ;)
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


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Adam Parker
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by Adam Parker »

I think you're taking this all a bit too personally Ravinhood. First up I am a PC moron. I bought a new PC because I wanted more RAM and a faster response. I had a choice of XP Pro or Vista and I took Vista. With great trepidation because of posts like yours mind you. Well, I'm posting now how it really has been for me. Vista is rock stable.
 
Vista thankfully is built for morons like me. I found the ol' file explorer and have it sitting in my Quick Launch bar. Hey if I want, I can right click the bar and voila it gives me the Windows XP Start menu and layout... if I ever want to step back in time but I like my new look.
 
Vista has been the most plug and play friendly program I've ever seen. I have needed NONE of my install discs for hardware. The new Windows Mobile Centre even loves my old iPaq. So what crap are you preaching on about?
 
As for games - I bought my new rig to play my AGEOD titles, give me a chance at scrolling Forge of Freedom and World at War AWD. And my friend, it just loves Battles in Normandy "1" and Italy - I can actually change screen resolutions now (before on XP these games would crash - way to go, my new DirectX 10 nVidia card!)
 
Talking about crashes, didn't I read somewhere that the Chinese Olympic movement was so scared of Vista it made a big point of staying with XP? Well, maybe you want to have a talk to the guy facing quasi-execution (or at least sterilization) because his XP-based ticketing system couldn't cope today and gave the big error screen [:D][:D][:D]
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Terminus
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by Terminus »

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, that's hardly news. Vista is a horrible piece of garbage.

To the contrary and statements like this nearly put me off going with Vista. I implore those looking for a new PC to ignore them.

I'm loving my entire Vista Ultimate experience. Not one crash, niggle or hiccup.

I don't build my own systems, I don't mod them or tweak them. I order what I want and I get a vendor who knows what they're doing to sell it to me. And I'm reaping the benefits.

Every peripheral including my 2 year old iPaq sync and work smoothly plug and play.

Norton and my other AV/Anit-Malware programs run sweetly. My games run fine. OS boots and loads rapid fire, programs, mail, web run lightning fast.

Bottom line: If you're going to buy a new PC get it with Vista Business or better and get good hardware to match. To get an idea of what you need, just pick up the boxes of the games out this month - Bio Forge, Crysis etc:

1. Dual Core or better.
2. 2Gig Ram or better.
3. nVidia 8600 or better.

These specs are dirt cheap today and after the Xmas buying period they'll be even cheaper as DDR3 Ram, quad core and nVidia 9000 cards swamp the market first half of 2008. Get these specs and you'll find Vista outshines XP as the servant that runs what you need. It looks and feels better in every way.

Adam.

I got a new PC about three weeks ago and specifically went to the only shop in town that still sells computers with OEM XP. XP is rock solid and has no more teething troubles; Vista will probably attain that status Some Day(tm) but they're not within screaming distance of it now. I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.

Good for you that your system works, but there are simply too many people who are having problems with theirs.
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
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leastonh1
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by leastonh1 »

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I might not say the things I said about Vista and Micro$oft in general with regards to a Matrix game, but then Matrix doesn't force me to buy their games if I want to run a computer that I can use for playing other computer games on. Micro$oft does; the two are not comparable.

But, nobody forces you to use Windows. That's the perception you have because you've been conditioned to think like it. You can play games on Linux or OSX too. You have Wine in Linux to play Windows games, without Windows. You have native Linux games and cross platform games (Quake and UT for example).

And you've still missed my point. I was talking about how you'd react to Matrix if they released a game in as poor condition as most Microsoft OS's are. That was the comparison I was trying to illustrate. People do complain bitterly about Windows and are up in arms, but they still use Windows instead of going elsewhere. They are taken in by the hype and marketing to really think there are no alternatives to Windows. The fact is, they are wrong.

Regards,
Jim
2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.
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Adam Parker
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by Adam Parker »

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I got a new PC about three weeks ago and specifically went to the only shop in town that still sells computers with OEM XP...

Good for you that your system works, but there are simply too many people who are having problems with theirs.

See you've defeated your own argument in your first sentence.

If Vista was so poor, it wouldn't be on sale in every other store.

Happy to talk gaming with you any day Terminus and respect your opinions there - but your posts here are just rampant scaremongering and myth.

People with problems? What are their specs? How are they configured? Who built their systems? Once again: Buy the right hardware and get it built by a compentent vendor and Vista is a dream.

The only people I could suggest with new systems, who would be having any issues, are those who were foolish enough to buy out of the box with anything less than 2Gigs of Ram. All the big name brands and vendors who pushed Vista with 512MB or 1Gig Ram should be facing product recalls.

But as of late 2007, with Dx10 cards rampant and DDR2 Ram dirt cheap, there's just no excuse for lack of caveat emptor.

Sheesh and to the guy who suggested a good Vista system costs 4 bills, try 2 buddy - and that's a base-grade Toshiba widescreen laptop with 2Gig RAM and 512MB video, out of the box, plug and play.

That's not my system of course [:)]
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Terminus
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by Terminus »

Okay, so your argument is that since everybody sells Vista, it must be good? So if every McDonalds started selling McDeadRat burgers, they'd be good too?

I'll eventually have to get Vista, like everybody else, but it'll be several service packs down the road.
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
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ravinhood
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by ravinhood »

Well it's good that we have pioneers like Adam in one way. In several years when the rest of us intelligent peoples upgrade (to whatever is the OS that actually works for everyone) we can thank those like Adam who wasted their time and money on the OS's for pioneering the way to find all the bugs and flaws and security issues for us. :) I believe in upgrading when one "has to" instead of when one is lead to by the nose. ;) I follow no pied pipers when it comes to the computer or computer gaming industry. I found out they lie and are grubby lil money mongers and the majority of their products don't work out of the box and sometimes for years they need fixing most especially microsoft OS's. ;)
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


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Terminus
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by Terminus »

You're a real hero...[8|]
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Adam Parker
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by Adam Parker »

Sorry for raining on yor party boys.
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by anvl »

Terminus,,

glad you have no problems with Vista,, thats good to hear. 

But..

It appears that your success comes from purchasing a complete new computer system which included Vista.  That is the Mac approach, so perhaps,, and assuming you are not the isolated success case,,, that is where Microsoft is going,, a closed system,not an open one.

No matter the problems microsoft seems to have with its releases,, the reason i use this system,,beyond gaming,, is the ability to tinker with my hardware,,and upgrade my hardware system a bit at a time.  there is a whole structure out there that hardware vendors and software vendors have to follow to be able to work within this open system..

It seems to me that microsoft needs follow its own rules and make their new OS at least be compatable with existing hardware?  It will be after a few fixes and upgrades i am sure...

Or,, hehe perhaps those Mac commercials are right?  Do what you can for Vista,,not what can vista do for you?  [;)] [:D]

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Terminus
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by Terminus »

Erm, I don't have Vista...[&:]
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by EUBanana »

When Linux has ported DirectX then Linux is in business.

Until then Linux = fail, for I want games.
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Prince of Eckmühl
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

I have both. In fact, I have multiple copies of both. I took the Vista-plunge for professional reasons; I needed to learn how to use it. I hate to quote myself, but, to save myself a few keystrokes, here's a synopsis of my experience with the OS from several months back:
I purchased a copy of Vista Home Premium (OEM), so that I could learn how to use it. It's installed on a spare, 90GB partition of the system that I'm writing this post on. While it installed easily enough, I've found it to have all sorts of issues with peripherals and applications, everything from a year-old mopier to Adobe Reader. Honestly, it seems that EVERYTHING that I try do with Vista requires me to go online and research some sort of "workaround." This not an attractive quality in a world where folks with cash to spend can buy a Mac.

Technically, I hate it. In an environment where energy costs are soaring, M$ thrusts this resource hog on us, one that DEMANDS more wattage than it's predecessor, what with it's requirements for more RAM and VGA memory. Throw in a dual-core processor, and you're power bill is going up, trust me. With everything turned off, except Vista of course, my system's memory use idles at 508mb! I'm sorry, but there's simply no fit rationale for ANY OS to squander that level of resource, ON ITSELF. But don't worry, if you want to run Photo Shop, just throw in a couple of more GB RAM, and you're off.

Finally, there's sound, something which certainly impacts gamers. I'm not gonna give a detailed technical explanation of what Gates and company have done too it, but it's likely never gonna be as good as it was with WinXP. You can spend all the money that you like on a card, but Vista's software layer is so thick as to render the hardware acceleration that we're so fond of sort of mute. Microsoft claims that it was done to improve system stability by moving more of the sound API away from the kernal. I say, BS. It was done to improve DRM, at the expense of folks who paid for higher-end sound via parts like the Creative Labs X-Fi.

In closing, I've had Vista as an option on my system for about three months. About once a week, I login, look around and shrug my shoulders. It's certainly cute enough. I used to play one of the new games, (3D) Mahjong Titans, but stopped because it has a bug in it.

Since posting the thoughts above, I've actually played game demos on Vista, Crysis, Bioshock and World in Conflict. While they run well enough, they run better in WinXP, with higher fps and much better sound. It's also worth noting that my gaming system is what could fairly be described as "muscular," having been built from about $1,800 worth of parts from Newegg computer. However, I still don't feel as though there's anything particularly revolutionary about Vista, excepting perhaps it's memory demands.

I still can't get over the fact that it takes 500+ megabytes of memory to boot into Vista. For that matter, the experience is a whole lot more like going from DOS to Win95 than going from '98 to XP. In both cases the interface was glitzier, but for a fair length of time, I couldn't do a hell of a lot with Win95, whereas XP allowed me to cache gobs of system memory, right off the bat. I didn't have a lot of problems with it as I'd already abandoned most of my old games that were written in 16-bit code.

I'm not sure where all this is headed, btw. I can say with considerable confidence that IT managers have NO interest in Vista. It uses too much electricity relative to the amount of work it does. YES, boys and girls, there's a price-tag for all that extra silicon and it's measured in kilowatts (which has a commensurate value in dollars). NOPE, they're gonna ring the last ounce of life out of 2000 and XP, and then look for something else, methinks, likely a Linux distribution. Time will tell.

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Bossy573
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by Bossy573 »

Interesting thread.

I have Vista running on a box I built this summer and I have to say it is rock solid stable, after I tweaked it to death, canned just about all of its security features, etc. Hard to say what MS was trying to do with this OS however. I bought it and almost immediately wondered what, beyond the eye candy, had changed.
Really though, if you have the hardware it is not a bad OS. But it clearly wasn't necessary.
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by anvl »

Terminus,,  [X(]    My aplogies,,, It must be that my keyboard has a mind of its own,,, [&:]


I meant the post as a response to Adam Parker

again,, sorry for my Bad,,,


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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by NefariousKoel »

ORIGINAL: Bossy573

Interesting thread.

I have Vista running on a box I built this summer and I have to say it is rock solid stable, after I tweaked it to death, canned just about all of its security features, etc. Hard to say what MS was trying to do with this OS however. I bought it and almost immediately wondered what, beyond the eye candy, had changed.
Really though, if you have the hardware it is not a bad OS. But it clearly wasn't necessary.

My thoughts on Vista too for the most part. After bagging all the extra security BS and tinkering with it - the only big complaint I have is the memory usage. Since everyone seems to finally be updating their software for it things have been pretty smooth for me lately. The stability of it is a nice leap from XP as I've witnessed from occasional game crashes that I'd have to either hit Alt-Ctrl-Del and then the Windows Start key on the keyboard to get to minimize in XP or just outright reset the power.

My gaming machine still has XP on it, but I'll eventually switch to Vista when I upgrade it if they haven't released a newer Windows by then.
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Adam Parker
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by Adam Parker »

ORIGINAL: anvl

Terminus,,  [X(]    My aplogies,,, It must be that my keyboard has a mind of its own,,, [&:]


I meant the post as a response to Adam Parker

again,, sorry for my Bad,,,

LOL! You woke me up and back into the thread [:D]

But I agree with you and if you read my posts carefully that was my point - Vista seems to love brand new systems, with quality hardware, built my competent people. And quality does not necessarily equate to $$$$.

And as NefariousKoel pointed out, lots of memory too.

But it's also comforting to hear of people who build their own, having smooth times. They seem to know what they're doing when it comes to IT competency

Btw PoE's post above is a perfect example of a polite, meaningful and useful post as a counter to this debate. Wanted ot write that some days ago.

Adam.
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ravinhood
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by ravinhood »

Thing is your average joe consumer doesn't build their own systems. You have a majority of users out there scratching their heads because their games and/or other programs aren't working when they PLUG them in. So, that's why I say most of the Vista lovers posts on here have no merit you aren't the norm and the norm is what will decide if Vista makes it or not. Not the techno dweebs. ;)
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

Post by leastonh1 »

Here's one (more) perfect example of why Vista sucks: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7126902.stm

What an absolute shambles! Microsoft must have had an enormous amount of complaints to do something like this! They certainly wouldn't make a u-turn with something as major as the anti-piracy component of their OS unless it was seriously fubar.

That story says it all really. With each Windows release, Microsoft are forcing us to relinquish more and more control of the operating system we run on our PC's. Is that a good thing?! Anti-piracy measures are all very well, but when they are so poorly implemented that they have a detrimental affect on genuine customers, then it's one step too far.

Considering their vast resources, Microsoft have NO excuses for releasing such poorly programmed software that is supposed to be a final version. Beta, yes. Final, no. It's not a game or media player which just don't work properly and you can ignore them until a patch is released, this is the operating system. Nothing is bug free obviously, but for major problems like this to find their way into "final" releases is just unacceptable.

History repeats itself with Microsoft all too often. They don't care and they don't learn. Oh well, back to distrowatch to see what new freebies are available [:)]

Regards,
Jim
2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.
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