How too - attacking well defended base

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: Owl
Found them, but how can you tell if the missile of choice can attack very low targets or not. Earlier it was mentioned that a missile (SA-10?) couldn't so flying very low would help.

Not every detail, including information like minimum and maximum altitude, will appear in the platform display. This kind of information is visible only in the Platform Editor (PE).

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: Owl
Grrr. Scenario is Backyard in the Pac battleset (last one). My "flock" of Hornets is heading in at low altitude attempting to get to launch range of their decoys and missiles. At about the line where the Red's AA missiles show max range the hornets start blowing up. No reason I can see - radars are on and they are not warning of incomming missiles. No gun emplacements should be there (water!). I am stumped as to what's killing my birds! Kinda hard to do anything about it.

Without giving too much away, there are more than one kind of SAM system in play here. Some of them are quite capable of picking you off at Low (even Very low) altitude. Be advised: 'The Backyard' is a challenging scenario.

[SireChaos]

ORIGINAL: Owl

Grrr.  Scenario is Backyard in the Pac battleset (last one).  My "flock" of Hornets is heading in at low altitude attempting to get to launch range of their decoys and missiles.  At about the line where the Red's AA missiles show max range the hornets start blowing up.  No reason I can see - radars are on and they are not warning of incomming missiles.  No gun emplacements should be there (water!).  I am stumped as to what's killing my birds!  Kinda hard to do anything about it.

In addition to what CV32 said, I noticed that, at least except for dedicated AEW aircraft, active radar has a blind spot behind the aircraft that uses it. If they were lucky, or you were careless, they might have snuck up on you from behind.

[mack2]

A tip from me, it's something I've only recently realised, as it's become much more useful now there are the "off-base" SAM/Radar in a formation instead of abstractly done on the base itself.

Use the F-14 TARPS to fly around the "edge" of the SAM range envelope (obviously after you have taken down the bases fighter coverage). Using a course where the TARPS flys around the edge will usually give you pin-point identification and positioning. A good weapon to attack these are the US submarines who have tomahawks. The Burevestinik base (which is where the first day or 2 battles will revolve around) has a lack of ASW aircraft. If you can get the 4 subs close to those bases, you can hit the airbase, it's radar and the SAM sites hard.

If I have got this right, the threat level of the SAM is:
SA-5c
SA-10d
SA-6b
SA-8b

I just did this in the scenario, unfortunately I did not take the minimum range into account, so I had to back off. That gave the missile bases enough time to wipe out most of the missiles. However, the ones wiped out were fired from subs without VLS, which meant 4 only. I fired 14 or so at the SA-5c base, and killed it with about 8 thawks from a VLS. I also killed the radar with 4 Harpoons fired from one of the few Japanese subs I had left. I was unaware they were land capable. Despite most of them failing, the attack killed the radar, the longest ranged SAM site, and expended valuable missiles from the other batteries.

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: mack2
If I have got this right, the threat level of the SAM is:
SA-5c
SA-10d
SA-6b
SA-8b

The SA-5c is longer ranged, but its hit probability (PH) is less than half that of the SA-10d.

I also killed the radar with 4 Harpoons fired from one of the few Japanese subs I had left. I was unaware they were land capable.

Only that latest version, the Harpoon II.

[Owl]

ORIGINAL: CV32

ORIGINAL: Owl
Grrr. Scenario is Backyard in the Pac battleset (last one). My "flock" of Hornets is heading in at low altitude attempting to get to launch range of their decoys and missiles. At about the line where the Red's AA missiles show max range the hornets start blowing up. No reason I can see - radars are on and they are not warning of incomming missiles. No gun emplacements should be there (water!). I am stumped as to what's killing my birds! Kinda hard to do anything about it.

Without giving too much away, there are more than one kind of SAM system in play here. Some of them are quite capable of picking you off at Low (even Very low) altitude. Be advised: 'The Backyard' is a challenging scenario.

It's a dang fun scenario! I just don't like not knowing what happened as I can't defend or take it into account the next time I try to strike. I know what I'm up against, having done recon (though not with the TARPS - guess that's what it's for). I had the aircraft screaming in low - and had fighters not attached behind them with radars on for escort purposes. Something killed most of my strike aircraft very quickly and I have no idea what. Not the flankers, most of them were already toast as I usually bounce them with my Tomcats and whiddle them way down before attempting any airstrikes. Must have been SAMs - I just expected the pilots to see them coming and report it - they died quietly though.
Once again, this is a fun one. I haven't yet figured out how to use the long range aircraft with refueling nor have I been able to use the Japanese planes to any good effect since their opponent Flankers have longer range AA missiles.

[Anonymous]

Guys,

your discussion about "Backyard" is the greatest reward a scen designer can get. Thank you very much. If you like this scen you´ll probably like "Backyard 2 - final shootout", released a few days ago at Harpgamer.

If these scens are good, it has a lot to do with the intense testing Tony and Brad (CV32) did.

Ralf

[Owl]

Hmm, I will have to find harpgamer.  I assume it's a supporting website, I'll find it.  I don't want to give anything away to anyone that has not played this, but there is a friendly TF of ships that seems to have little purpose but to get creamed.  I have not found that they can do much but die gallantly, which though realistic I suppose seems rather pointless as far as the requirements of the blue forces are concerned.  I guess they give the player something to do for the first part of the scenario - madly trying to keep them alive.
The other one is a certain base with fighters having short range missiles vs another red base right across the sea opposing them - with plenty of fighters sporting longer ranged missiles.  Generally unless I'm doing something really wrong - this base is another sacrificial lamb like the non CV taskforce is (being intentionally vague here to avoid spoilers).
Hard nuts to crack here for sure and I keep playing it over and over trying to get a better handle on air defense and how to defend a CVBG.

[Divefreak]

ORIGINAL: Owl

Hmm, I will have to find harpgamer.

www.harpgamer.com


HTH René

[Anonymous]

Owl,

your analysis is good [:D]

ORIGINAL: Owl

Hmm, I will have to find harpgamer.  I assume it's a supporting website, I'll find it.  I don't want to give anything away to anyone that has not played this, but there is a friendly TF of ships that seems to have little purpose but to get creamed.  I have not found that they can do much but die gallantly, which though realistic I suppose seems rather pointless as far as the requirements of the blue forces are concerned.  I guess they give the player something to do for the first part of the scenario - madly trying to keep them alive.
The other one is a certain base with fighters having short range missiles vs another red base right across the sea opposing them - with plenty of fighters sporting longer ranged missiles.  Generally unless I'm doing something really wrong - this base is another sacrificial lamb like the non CV taskforce is (being intentionally vague here to avoid spoilers).
Hard nuts to crack here for sure and I keep playing it over and over trying to get a better handle on air defense and how to defend a CVBG.

I´m sure you´ll make it. [:)]

[Warhorse64]

ORIGINAL: Owl


I haven't yet figured out how to use the long range aircraft with refueling nor have I been able to use the Japanese planes to any good effect since their opponent Flankers have longer range AA missiles.

Keep the Japanese fighters at low altitude with their radars OFF and you can sneak in on the Flankers just about every time. Only switch the radars on when you start shooting, and immediately go to high altitude on 'burner to run away, and sometimes you can even save the Japanese planes, too! [:)]