EU Fines Microsoft Record $1.3B

[Widell]

[;)] I thought it sounded like fun to try to describe the logic from Columbus and the Native Americans all the way through the Civil War, WWI, WWII, swinging by Spinning Jenny, the British Car Industry, the Swedish Shipyards and arrive at a completely logic and solid argument for why Microsoft is superior to Linux or vice versa. Talk about Tech Tree and Events. What game does this fit into? AT maybe?

[marcusm]

My opinion is that all those who talk warmly about "private enterprise" should
respect Eriks(the owner of this enterprise) opinions about not having political arguments here.

We all know where they end up.

I am just saying that my next OS will be Mac OS. I don't care what anyone else thinks.
My free choice.

[Marauders]

The US sure had no problems competing with the Europeans ... when going to the moon ....

 
Because our German scientists were better than their German scientists. [:D]
 
When it comes to Windows, I have no problem with Microsoft making a product and selling it, but using monopolistic powers to destroy other companies trying to compete with other Microsoft products or soak money from developers is unfair and illegal.  The courts have ruled on that in both the United States and in Europe.  Of course, when the administration changed in 2001, in the United States, Microsoft was given a Get Out of Jail Free card in the final phase of their trial.  That cost consumers some big bucks.

[PunkReaper]

I don't care whether a company is American, British or European, what I do care about is that they give the consumer a good deal and if they don't due to unfair practices, someone, even if it is government, is there to wield a big stick. Why can't they all be like Matrix, giving us a good deal, good products and great customer service. Now how about that Medieval game........[:D]

[Motomouse]

@Widell

I fully comply with your post [:)]

[Motomouse]

@ marcusm

I fully comply with the first paragraph of your post [;)]


nobody asked, but anyway:

sincere opinion on OS: I use Linux to get my job done & some programming / Win XP for gaming / OS X for video presentations

I´ll switch from OS X to Linux for video presentations after a dvd software lockup forced me to reboot in front of a large audience recently (at last it was up and running again in a reasonable short time)

[ORANGE]

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

I don't care whether a company is American, British or European, what I do care about is that they give the consumer a good deal and if they don't due to unfair practices, someone, even if it is government, is there to wield a big stick. Why can't they all be like Matrix, giving us a good deal, good products and great customer service. Now how about that Medieval game........[:D]

You determine if something by buying it or not. Having the government step in because you think you are paying to much for "X" which is not even a necessity is asinine.

Nobody wants to talk about how cheap and available computers are because of Microsoft. Everything was proprietary and expensive before.

[PunkReaper]

If Capitalism is allowed to riegn without regulation and large multinational corporations are allowed to create a virtual monopoly for themselves I am afraid the world will not be a happier place. You can only determine whether to buy something or not if you are given a choice. In the case of Microsoft I believe that they are accused of using their almost monopoly position to stifle consumer choice.

[marcusm]

Personally I think the future is in mobile devices. I love the IPhone,
once they get 3G in I am buying it.

IPhone is so rich you can do almost any application for it.

[ORANGE]

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

If Capitalism is allowed to riegn without regulation and large multinational corporations are allowed to create a virtual monopoly for themselves I am afraid the world will not be a happier place. You can only determine whether to buy something or not if you are given a choice. In the case of Microsoft I believe that they are accused of using their almost monopoly position to stifle consumer choice.

So how is MS stifling Apple? As a matter of fact I believe that either Bill Gates or MS have invested in Apple.

There is competition out there in Unix, Linux, Apple. Just because people choose MS despite that does not make them a monopoly.

I have not tried Vista and am not looking to go to it. I have tries Linux and it is nothing special. I have not played on Mac's much but would consider one IF THEY DROPPED THE PRICE.

[Marauders]

There is competition out there in Unix, Linux, Apple. Just because people choose MS despite that does not make them a monopoly.

 
That is a very simplistic view of reality, as it does not take into account market share or the inelasticity of a market for a product that is required to run the computer.
 
 

[ORANGE]

ORIGINAL: Marauders

There is competition out there in Unix, Linux, Apple. Just because people choose MS despite that does not make them a monopoly.

That is a very simplistic view of reality, as it does not take into account market share or the inelasticity of a market for a product that is required to run the computer.

Maybe the EU could force a certain percent of the population to run Linux, then a certain percent to run Mac OS and others to run Windows? They could even throw in DOS.

I do not live in Europe. Do they also fine good looking girls for getting more date offers or make the men go out with the ugly ones?

[Zakhal]

This is great news. Monopolies are bad.

[Peter Fisla]

Vista is so bad that even big managers at MS are speaking up:

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/02/28/1746211.shtml

click on the "more extensive email exchange" and read the MS internal emails PDF lots of juice there


You can also read the smaller scale version of the emails here:

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/micr ... 132891.asp

[ORANGE]

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

Vista is so bad that even big managers at MS are speaking up:

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/02/28/1746211.shtml

click on the "more extensive email exchange" and read the MS internal emails PDF lots of juice there


You can also read the smaller scale version of the emails here:

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/micr ... 132891.asp

If Vista is so bad is this not good news for MS competitors?

Really the fact that the government has to get involved because MS operating systems are so good has to say something.

[Marauders]

I don't want Vista to be bad.  I want it to be a good product at a fair price set by a competative market.
 
I am Jeffersonian in my approach to monopolies.  Thomas Jefferson equated the right to be free of unrestricted monopolies as a right of man just as the freedoms of speech, religion, and press.
 

I do not like... the omission of a bill of rights providing clearly and without the aid of sophisms for freedom of religion, freedom of the press, protection against standing armies, restriction against monopolies, the eternal and unremitting force of the habeas corpus laws, and trials by jury in all matters of fact triable by the laws of the land...
 
Thomas Jefferson to James Madison: Dec. 20, 1787.

 

[ORANGE]

ORIGINAL: Marauders

I don't want Vista to be bad. I want it to be a good product at a fair price set by a competative market.

I am Jeffersonian in my approach to monopolies. Thomas Jefferson equated the right to be free of unrestricted monopolies as a right of man just as the freedoms of speech, religion, and press.

I do not like... the omission of a bill of rights providing clearly and without the aid of sophisms for freedom of religion, freedom of the press, protection against standing armies, restriction against monopolies, the eternal and unremitting force of the habeas corpus laws, and trials by jury in all matters of fact triable by the laws of the land...

Thomas Jefferson to James Madison: Dec. 20, 1787.

I do not like... the omission of a bill of rights providing clearly and without the aid of sophisms for freedom of religion, freedom of the press, protection against standing armies, restriction against monopolies, the eternal and unremitting force of the habeas corpus laws, and trials by jury in all matters of fact triable by the laws of the land...

Thomas Jefferson to James Madison: Dec. 20, 1787.

Is not the market competitive? You have Apple and Linux competing with MS.

[Marauders]

Is not the market competitive? You have Apple and Linux competing with MS.

 
The market is not competative.
 
Try to purchase a PC that is not an Apple product and see if any of them come with Linux or Leopard.
 
 

[David Winter]

ORIGINAL: Marauders

Is not the market competitive? You have Apple and Linux competing with MS.

The market is not competative.

Try to purchase a PC that is not an Apple product and see if any of them come with Linux or Leopard.

Leopard is Apple. http://www.apple.com/macosx/

There are several computer stores in my local area that will install whatever OS you like on the system you buy.

Can you do it from the Best Buy's of the world?? Depends on the individual store and whether or not they have staff that can do it. For the most part it's not cost effective. And not even because of the software. Heck Linux is free. The cost comes from having to pay staff that is familiar with these fringe OS'. If someone can get Linux up and running, they're probably worth more than what Best Buy can afford to pay. It also means that you probably void whatever waranty for support you would normally get. That has nothing to do with a microsoft monopoly. That again has to do with companies like Best Buy, or Futureshop, or most other major computer stores not having the staff to be able to deal with it.

The market is as competitive as the consumers want it to be.

[Marauders]

Leopard is Apple.

I am well aware of this; that is why I asked to try to purchase a computer that is not an Apple product ....

There are several computer stores in my local area that will install whatever OS you like on the system you buy.

I can go into a custom PC shop to have Linux put on.  If you believe that is what regular computer purchasers do, you are mistaken.  I also doubt that they will be able to put Leopard on a custom built PC even if I wanted them to.

The market is as competitive as the consumers want it to be.

Actually, that is not often the case.  Consumers want competition, choices, and the market dynamic.  They often get one electric company, one cable company, one local hospital, one local gas price, and one default operating system.

It is no wonder that many of the world's wealthiest people have gained that wealth through monopolies, scarce resource control, market manipulation, or usery.

That is why consumers elect officials to create anti-trust laws and regulation.

Even in the case of your game, do consumer who make the choice not to upgrade the OS have the ability to play the game? No, they do not. The control of the OS forces developers to upgrade which forces consumers to upgrade if they like it or not. In the end we are all forced to upgrade. The difference between you and I is that you like it and I do not.

A monopoly granted either to an individual or to a trading company has the same effect as a secret in trade or manufactures. The monopolists, by keeping the market constantly understocked, by never fully supplying the effectual demand, sell their commodities much above the natural price, and raise their emoluments, whether they consist in wages or profit, greatly above their natural rate.

Adam Smith - The Wealth of Nations, Vol I, Chapter 7

When the market is inelastic, the monopoly can raise prices above their natural state and not have to withhold product from the market. The monopoly can also be used to force consumers to purchase other products that the corporation offers creating greater market share, and in some cases, another defacto monopoly.