Quick overview of a bases capabilities

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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HansBolter
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: treespider

1. Where did I say I disliked your idea?

2. My intent was to generate an example of how to implement your suggestion within the framework of the current UI design. For a suggestion to have a better chance of consideration it is generally better to provided an example of its implementation.

3. From your above suggestion the buttons and lights take up screen space most of which is already occupied. So in essence a new screen would need to be created to handle the base capability summary report.

It could be a useful feature...however as some of the players have pointed out essentially the same information is presented when you list the Auxilliary's on the ship list at a base...its just not as intuitive as your idea.


You didn't say it, I obviously inferred it, apparently incorrectly as I mistakenly lumped you together with the naysayers.

You are correct that suggesting a solution for implementing the suggestion would probably provide a better chance of it being accepted.

I disagree that the screen space is not available and would require an additional screen. As some one suggested above the icons could be arrayed accross the bottom strip where SOME basic base information is already provided.

Attempting to use the logic of the naysayers, why did the designers even bother to provide the limited (from my perspective) base information accross the bottom strip when the very same information is available in the mouse over fly outs on the main map screen? Maybe because a little redundancy in providing multiple avenues to the information is NOT a bad thing?

From my perspective, they did a sort of half-way job of providing essential base information in the base interface. It could be better. Isn't that what this forum is for, to suggest ways to make it better?
Hans

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treespider
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by treespider »

ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Again, I ask what is more simple and elegant than listing the auxiliaries in the mouse over? There are no lists to scroll or buttons to click, nor is there so much writing in the mouse over so as to obscure the important information.

I don't think that it is asking too much of a WITP player to remember the few auxiliary tenders we have in the game:

AD - destroyer tender
AS - sub tender
AGP - PT tender
MLE - minelayer tender (I know, didn't exist IRL)
AR - repair ship
AV, AVD - seaplane tender
AE - ammunition ship
AO - fleet oiler



[:D][:D][:D] Wait till you see the three pages worth of ship types in AE. It will be easier to have a hard copy list by your side.[;)]

Someone said it is actually posted somewhere in the Naval Thread above...


And so they were posted :

fb.asp?m=1645669
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Czert3
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by Czert3 »

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Again, I ask what is more simple and elegant than listing the auxiliaries in the mouse over? There are no lists to scroll or buttons to click, nor is there so much writing in the mouse over so as to obscure the important information.

I don't think that it is asking too much of a WITP player to remember the few auxiliary tenders we have in the game:

AD - destroyer tender
AS - sub tender
AGP - PT tender
MLE - minelayer tender (I know, didn't exist IRL)
AR - repair ship
AV, AVD - seaplane tender
AE - ammunition ship
AO - fleet oiler

Combine this with anothers VC, BB, BC, DD...etc - and someone can lost with this - and imaginme another, vhen novice player KNOW we have destroyer tender in game, with D inside, but cant recall - it is DD, AD, DAA, DAX...etc ?
In game info of ALL abbreviations is very logikal - it is hard to rember to remember all subtypes of destroyer!!! or other ships.
Is not layzyness to dont write by hand all those abbr. -and wanting this to be displayed in game (sorry if this in game, I dont own it, but seriosly considering of buying it)- it is only wanting of display in which shall be in game from begining.

And after re reading of inital post and discusion I must agree with Hans - this is very needed for game and not-so-hardcore players.
Czert3
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by Czert3 »

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
What could be more elegant than a set of indicator light in the base interface that states uncategorically if the capability is present or not....no data mining required.

It sounds elegant but as with everything in this game it would likely be a bear to implement. In particularly since some ship types have multiple base enhancement functions.

If one ship is capable of multitasks, but one at each time is is difficult to add after base capability xxx : yes/no to add variable number : /2(/4) (for multiple ships) 1 (one ship) ,2,3.4...etc for more ships ? Or better repair/rearm..etc POINTS. better ship - more points per ship.
John Lansford
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by John Lansford »

I suppose this is as good a place to ask this question, considering the discussion is about auxiliary ships and what benefits they give to a base.
 
The repair ships (AR) are said to increase the ability of a port to repair additional ships.  Is it better to put these ships in ports with existing repair facilities?  If so, should they go in the ports with smaller repair values so they can enhance their repair ability, or should they go in the larger ones to increase the speed of repair?  Or, should they go in ports with no repair facilities so they can function as minor repair sites?
 
Right now I've got AR's in Pearl Harbor, Sydney and San Francisco, but is that the best place for them?
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witpqs
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by witpqs »

It's not the coding at the basic level that he means. The issue is that the game engine has about 2,000,000 lines of code. A great deal of it was written in the early 90's, including the interface. Standards and software technology were a lot different then. Working with the interface is very time-consuming compared to software written with facilities available today.

They only have so many resources devoted to AE, so they had to be very judicious about what made it in and what didn't. There is fairly strong indication that there will be a WITP-II that will be a much more major work - nothing official from Matrix, BTW, just speculation here based on the success of the game and the company's commitment to the AE version.

Things like Hans suggested (and I also agree with), are really items that will have to wait for -II.
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by Czert3 »

witpqs - if you have right for code of WITP/AE - then, mayby is time to abadon old code, and write totaly new for another WITP II or similiar game (WPO II [:)]) ?
 
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witpqs
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by witpqs »

No - I don't have the code!
Rainer
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by Rainer »

Looks like it's time to open a "Wish List for potential WitP2", isn't it?
Trouble is that someone has to monitor this and collect the valuable thoughts, which may be a manpower problem.
However, if such a game (WitP2) is scheduled for, say, summer 2009, now is the time to collect input from the community. Or so I think.
Of course, if Matrix / 3by2 cannot officially commit to such a release (yet), they probably also would not support the idea of collecting input for a product which does not (yet) exist. Not even in a planning state.
Maybe we all should wait (like Matrix is apparently) until AE is released and the sales results are on the table.
WitP/AE
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witpqs
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by witpqs »

I think it's premature until we all get a good look at AE.
Rainer
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by Rainer »

I reluctantly agree [;)]
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jwilkerson
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by jwilkerson »

Sorry I had not drilled into this thread before.

I myself have spent at least hours testing to understand exactly what conditions are required to replenish torpedos for DDs, CLs, CAs etc. port sizes, AD, etc. And the answer is actually different between WITP and WPO. The suggestion is a good one. It would have been a great one a year ago when we could have done it. At this point we must sustain the code and data freeze in order to get sufficient testing time on a stable baseline to allow release. The laws of project management will assert themselves one way or the other!
[:D]
WITP Admiral's Edition - Project Lead
War In Spain - Project Lead
Rainer
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by Rainer »

Makes sense to me.
Unfortunately [;)]
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HansBolter
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Sorry I had not drilled into this thread before.

I myself have spent at least hours testing to understand exactly what conditions are required to replenish torpedos for DDs, CLs, CAs etc. port sizes, AD, etc. And the answer is actually different between WITP and WPO. The suggestion is a good one. It would have been a great one a year ago when we could have done it. At this point we must sustain the code and data freeze in order to get sufficient testing time on a stable baseline to allow release. The laws of project management will assert themselves one way or the other!
[:D]

Thanks for at least agreeing that it was a good suggestion.

I guess I should have "discovered" this game a year ago instead of last month.
Hans

Czert3
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by Czert3 »

Shot project manager, and hope for better one. [:D]
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Kull
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by Kull »

As the Project Manager for an extremely large Total Conversion Mod (Europa Barbarorum for RTW), one of the things that drove me nuts was fans who focused on one or two things that weren't in the mod, in many cases appearing to ignore the totality of what had been accomplished. By all means, WitP fans should feel free to make requests and offer suggestions, but PLEASE do not cross the line into "disappointment" or "frustration" when your pet desire does not make it into the final product. When you read through the list of improvements in AE, it's almost staggering. My hat is off to the AE team for the bazillion things they ARE doing.
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by jwilkerson »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Sorry I had not drilled into this thread before.

I myself have spent at least hours testing to understand exactly what conditions are required to replenish torpedos for DDs, CLs, CAs etc. port sizes, AD, etc. And the answer is actually different between WITP and WPO. The suggestion is a good one. It would have been a great one a year ago when we could have done it. At this point we must sustain the code and data freeze in order to get sufficient testing time on a stable baseline to allow release. The laws of project management will assert themselves one way or the other!
[:D]

Thanks for at least agreeing that it was a good suggestion.

I guess I should have "discovered" this game a year ago instead of last month.

I've posted this data several times before, but not everyone reads every thread, so I'll summarize once again ...

===

The original enhancement list for AE, came from the WITP wish list, circa roughly Feb 2006. A that point the list had been around since the game was released in July 2004. There were about 450 items on the list at that point. I pulled all those into a spreadsheet, then removed duplicates and impossibles. This left me with about 250 items. Then the design team put difficulty estimates and game play benefit estimates on these and we wound up with a list of about 62 items for starters.

Of course the list has been increased by email suggestions and subsequent forum posts, but as has been said before we cannot please all the players all the time. At best we can please some of the players some of the time. Our team objective is that AE will be better than stock on many things, but not all.


WITP Admiral's Edition - Project Lead
War In Spain - Project Lead
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ctangus
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by ctangus »

ORIGINAL: Kull

As the Project Manager for an extremely large Total Conversion Mod (Europa Barbarorum for RTW), one of the things that drove me nuts was fans who focused on one or two things that weren't in the mod, in many cases appearing to ignore the totality of what had been accomplished. By all means, WitP fans should feel free to make requests and offer suggestions, but PLEASE do not cross the line into "disappointment" or "frustration" when your pet desire does not make it into the final product. When you read through the list of improvements in AE, it's almost staggering. My hat is off to the AE team for the bazillion things they ARE doing.

Well said. I agree 100%.

Though I'm still disappointed that the "prevent ctangus from making a stupid move" code won't be included in AE...
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treespider
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by treespider »

ORIGINAL: ctangus

ORIGINAL: Kull

As the Project Manager for an extremely large Total Conversion Mod (Europa Barbarorum for RTW), one of the things that drove me nuts was fans who focused on one or two things that weren't in the mod, in many cases appearing to ignore the totality of what had been accomplished. By all means, WitP fans should feel free to make requests and offer suggestions, but PLEASE do not cross the line into "disappointment" or "frustration" when your pet desire does not make it into the final product. When you read through the list of improvements in AE, it's almost staggering. My hat is off to the AE team for the bazillion things they ARE doing.

Well said. I agree 100%.

Though I'm still disappointed that the "prevent ctangus from making a stupid move" code won't be included in AE...

That was #63 on Joe's list of 62 items.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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ctangus
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RE: Quick overview of a bases capabilities

Post by ctangus »

ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: ctangus
ORIGINAL: Kull

As the Project Manager for an extremely large Total Conversion Mod (Europa Barbarorum for RTW), one of the things that drove me nuts was fans who focused on one or two things that weren't in the mod, in many cases appearing to ignore the totality of what had been accomplished. By all means, WitP fans should feel free to make requests and offer suggestions, but PLEASE do not cross the line into "disappointment" or "frustration" when your pet desire does not make it into the final product. When you read through the list of improvements in AE, it's almost staggering. My hat is off to the AE team for the bazillion things they ARE doing.

Well said. I agree 100%.

Though I'm still disappointed that the "prevent ctangus from making a stupid move" code won't be included in AE...

That was #63 on Joe's list of 62 items.

Ah, bugger! I knew it had to be up there! [:D]
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