My Grandfather's Military history

[Gem35]

My Aunt sent me an old photo of my Grandfather and the plane he flew in.
I have no idea what kind it is, can any of you help identify it?

[bradfordkay]

I think that's an SBD Dauntless. I'll leave it to the experts to determine the version and unit...[;)]

[Gem35]

Thank you Brad!
Is there anything else about his clothes that you can tell me about, for instance is that a flak jacket he is wearing?
Are the "headphones" he is wearing or the uniform provide any details?
I was told he was a navigater and gunner.
Thank you all for the information.[&o]

[Feinder]

Does it look like he's wearing dungarees?  That would be enlisted Navy, yes?  Did they wear jeans on missions? (seems odd to me, but it is a posed pic, so the jeans might be irrelevant). And if he was a gunner, that corrobberates that.  I don't think I've ever seen a flak vest up close, but that thing he's wearing is very rigid, and I'd certainly feel a little better wearing one of those things (esp if I was a tail gunner).

If you can match a date and location (maybe by mention in post-card), you might be able to cross the unit to the location/timeframe to connect his squadron.  Got anything like that?

-F-

[Gem35]

According to my limited information so far he was enlisted in the Marine Corps during late 40-mid 41 and was discharged due to him being underage, although his birth certificate counterdicts this. He then joined the Navy from late 42- late 45.
It's all I know at this point, thanks for your help Feinder.[:)]

[ChezDaJez]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Does it look like he's wearing dungarees?  That would be enlisted Navy, yes?  Did they wear jeans on missions? (seems odd to me, but it is a posed pic, so the jeans might be irrelevant). And if he was a gunner, that corrobberates that.  I don't think I've ever seen a flak vest up close, but that thing he's wearing is very rigid, and I'd certainly feel a little better wearing one of those things (esp if I was a tail gunner).

If you can match a date and location (maybe by mention in post-card), you might be able to cross the unit to the location/timeframe to connect his squadron.  Got anything like that?

-F-

The picture appears posed... that is he was not preparing for or returning from a flight. I'm not sure why I think that but something about the photo just seems to say that.

This man is wearing a Navy leather flight jacket with fur collar and is wearing a life-preserver over it. If you look closely, you can see the inflation toggle hanging below and in the middle of the life-preserver. His pants are dungarees as noted by the square pocket on the front. It also appears that he is carrying his wallet in his left front pocket.

Dungarees are made of a light-weight denim material and have bell-bottoms. They would have been quite cold and drafty in flight and the bell-bottoms could easily snag on something if he were trying to exit in a hurry. Plus they have about as much flame protection as a tee shirt. If he did wear them inflight, I suppose its possible that he is wearing woolen long-johns. All aircrew after mid-43 had flight suits issued to them so wearing dungarees should not have been the first choice.

I think Bradfordkay is correct. The aircraft cockpit framing reminds me of a Dauntless SBD. Plus the heighth at which the fuselage comes up on him is also indicative of a Dauntless.

Chez

[Grell]

Well Gem, I sure hope you can find out what your father did! Very interesting stuff.

Regards,

Greg

[GI Jive]

The plane in the background seems to have a long upright antenna forward of the cockpit - a distinctive feature of the Dauntless, the SB2U-3 Vindicator, and the SNJ trainer. The photo seems to show the rear gunner's cockpit. The canopy bracing of the Dauntless has more sections overlapped when open as here - http://www.mnstarfire.com/ww2/history/air/USA/SBD.html. The rear cockpit of the SNJ opens differently as here - http://www.avweb.com/newspics/185585_snj_side.jpg. To me, the framing sort of resembles the Vindicator - http://www.voughtaircraft.com/heritage/photo/html/psb2u-1_0.html and here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Convoy_en_route_to_Capetown.jpg and here - http://sb2u_vindicator.tripod.com/2u.color.northisland.ramp.jpg. There seems to be mountains in the background (possibly Hawaii?). The planes seem to be painted blue grey, so this would put them in the late 1941 to 1942 period. (It might also be the three color scheme which would date the photo around 1943.) Enlisted flightcrew often wore dungarees, except in cold climates.

[bradfordkay]

"The planes seem to be painted blue grey, so this would put them in the late 1941 to 1942 period. (It might also be the three color scheme which would date the photo around 1943.)"

Considering the service record of the man involved, it would have to be the latter: "According to my limited information so far he was enlisted in the Marine Corps during late 40-mid 41 and was discharged due to him being underage, although his birth certificate counterdicts this. He then joined the Navy from late 42- late 45.
It's all I know at this point"

Because his mode of dress suggests USN as opposed to USMC and his time of service in the USN would not place him in an air squadron until after the Vindicators had been removed from front line service I felt that the aircraft is most likely a Dauntless (also the diminutive size of the aircraft led me in this direction). It is possible that it's a Vindicator in a training squadron, I suppose, but my guess is that it's a photo from his time in a combat unit - said photo being staged for his family.

[Gem35]

Thank you guys again for the information. I appreciate it.[:)]

[seydlitz_slith]

The plane is a Dauntless. Most likely an SBD-3.
Here is a picture of the same area of the SBD-2 that is at the Naval Air Museum in Pensacola.

The cockpit framing is unique to the Dauntless. I have cross checked my pictures of the Vindicator and other Navy aircraft and can confirm that the framing belongs to the Dauntless.

http://collections.naval.aviation.museu ... lQuery.php

[Gem35]

I hope to find out from the archives of what rank and unit My Gradfather was in, I am very proud of him and thank you again for the confirmation that the plane in question was a Dauntless.[:)]

[panda124c]

My father was CIC USS Arkansas, during the Pacific cruises, and USS Midway during the Bikini Island test.

[Gem35]

I was wondering if the artists here at the forums could incorporate my Grandfather's picture and an SBD Dauntless into a banner/sig for me?
Please Please with sugar on top?[&o]

[Big B]

My Father joined the Navy in 1944, he told me 'all the girls were going for guys in uniform' - so he joined up, even though he was 4-F because he was born deaf in his right ear. It didn't take the Navy but four months to find out, so he was discharged by 1945. He never left Great Lakes Naval Training Station, where-ever that is (Illinois I think).

But when Korea came around, the Army nabbed him at the ripe old age of 25. He told them he was 4-F from WWII, but he and his older brother - had burned his discharge papers...and he couldn't prove it. So the Draft took him anyway. He, being a 'character' from Peoria Ill (...his friends at the time were up and coming 'hoodlums') decided that THE worst thing the Army could do to him was send him to Korea (where his cousin just became KIA), took an extended last leave (extended by about 60 days).
The FBI actually arrested him at home, turned him over to the Army - who quickly court-marshaled him, and for punishment - he spent two weeks in the stockade at Camp Roberts California, while his outfit out-processed to Korea....he left with them on the same troop-transport (with 60 extra days leave at home).

By Christmas Day 1951 he landed in Japan, and by January 1952 he started a combat tour with the 5th R.C.T. in Korea as a basic rifleman (he was actually assigned the squad B.A.R.).

He never talked about what he did in Korea until I was 45 yrs old, but now I know that he saw his 'share' and had to kill many Koreans and Chinese - 'close' (he would have been bayoneted 4 times at night - had they not worn FLAK Jackets by '52). I remember he took me aside one evening, and said "just between us boys, I was never in big battles - just a lot of patrol action".

When I was 23 and joined up (in a cowardly way really - my younger brother gave my parents the news I was on my way to Ft Benning GA...I called him from LAX) I was told my Dad cried when he heard the news(during the 1980 Iranian deal)... years later I finally understood why.

He's 82 now and in poor health - don't think he'll see too many more years (months?) But he's still a character.

[Gem35]

My Grandfather and his good friend trained at Great Lakes during the war.[:)]
It is in Glenview Illinois, a norhtwest suburb of CHicago, where I grew up.

[Big B]

Thanks Gem35, I thought it was around Chicago.

ORIGINAL: Gem35

My Grandfather and his good friend trained at Great Lakes during the war.[:)]
It is in Glenview Illinois, a norhtwest suburb of Chicago, where I grew up.

Just thinking, I remember my Dad's uncle (by marriage - who was about 5-7 years older than he) was one of the original Darby's Rangers. He was lucky enough to be one of the 9 men that came back from Cisterna Italy (at Anzio, when two of the three Ranger Battalions were wiped out in Jan or Feb 1944).

He said that when he came home during the war, they were all together for dinner, and the record that was playing - skipped and ran (that zipping sound, for those of you who don't know what a record sounds like when the needle runs over the record).
The poor guy dived under the dinner table - reflex I guess. He said he was never the same after the war.

Costs we don't often think about.

[Hornblower]

My uncle Joe was in the 1st ID (North Africa, Sicily, D-Day, the whole 9 yards) and my Uncle John was in the 5th Marines (Peleliu, Okinawa, and Korea).  Oh the fights they had over thanksgiving dinner!  It was better then the football games.   God Bless there souls..
 

[Jam_USMC]

Haven't been at this forum for a while, new job, new baby, moving, etc. But I have to add my two cents. I work at the National Personnel Records Center in St. Loius, so if anybody has any questions about whose records are there or which were burned, or how to get them I guess I could be of some assistance though I've only worked there for about 6 months. But here is an overview:

ARMY-and only Army- released from service (discharged) 1912-1954, almost all of these are gone. But I have worked two cases where the records were mostly intact. If you write your congressman or senator and ask for the record, we pretty much have to do all that we can to Reconstruct the records using alternate sources, otherwise you'll get a letter saying you are out of luck.

Air Force records: The dates of the burned records are similar to army, but pretty much last names A-H are there, the others, mostly not.

If you want the record of USMC or Navy (starting in 1890 to present), they are all there. Yes, they really are. I've handled dozens of these records in my brief time there. If they were destroyed it was incidental only.

If the veteran, of any branch, was released more that 62 years ago there will be a $50.00 charge for the record because it is archival and now belongs to the National Archives. But, the upside is, if you have the cash, you can get ANY archival record you want--even if you are not related. But that doesn't mean every Joe-bag-o-dounts out there can get a copy of Nimitz and Halsey's records. Those of course are special cases and I haven't been there long enough to know how to get them.

The misnomer about the whole fire thing is that everthing prior to 1973 was destroyed. It is not true. Only one floor burned. It was just the army records, the dates listed above (and roughly half the Air Force), the were the hardest hit by the fire. Unfortantely, that was pretty much every soldier that served in WWI and WWII--and that's a heck of a lot of people.

Here is what is there:

Army: 1954 to present.
Navy: 1898 to present
USMC: 1890 to present.
AF: I won't get into the whole Army, AAC, Air Force thing, but if served in WWII A-Hubbard is there. After 1954, they are all there.

There are really really tons of nuances and details about whose records are there and how to get them. If anybody wants advice just make a post. I visit often enough to keep relatively current of the crazy and ridiculuos events surrounding the world of the WITP forum, and the even more ridiculous world of the constant struggle of good vs. evil--also known as the thread vs. anti-thread.

[Hornblower]

My Great Uncle John served in the 1st ID in world war 2. He volunteered right after 12/7 from Brooklyn.  He was in North Africa, Sicily, and Normandy. He hardly talked of it.  He had a room set up in the back of the house, a library/den, I guess you could call it, where he had his Class A’s hanging up, and some Newspaper clippings  His brother in law, my other great uncle Joe, who is dating Joe’s sister Mary, opted for the Marines. He ended up fighting at Okinawa and Peleliu.  Neither of them spoke much of it, until Thanksgiving.. And for some odd reason from what I remember, the “fight” between them always started Right after the first football game started.  Personally, as a little guy, in awe of what they both did, and thinking I really understood what happened I loved it..  Joe and Johns kids didn’t share the interest, while I did.  Which makes me think that’s why I was the favorite nephew.   
 
Anyway that’s not the point… Uncle Joe really never spoke of what he did- a quiet very reserved dignified man (God bless his soul) I never really understood what he went through and what he kept buried until that one thanksgiving when he called the boys, all 6 of us- yours truly being the youngest, into the back room and he talked.   He talked about a patrol late in the war when they came across a CAMP and the living hell they saw.  I rather not go into details, but he broke down in tears.  Some thing I guess are better left unsaid..