Best Designed Ship of WWII

[John Lansford]

I'll nominate the South Dakota class BB's.  Pound for pound the best battleships in the world at the time, combining heavy firepower, excellent secondary weaponry, good speed and endurance, and heavy armor in a compact displacement. 

[goodboyladdie]

CV: Midway - all the utility of an Essex, but with an armoured deck. As a testament to their good design they served for 50 years in their original Navy.

Sub: Type XXI - revolutionary. Designed for mass production with advanced features that shaped submarines for the future.

DD: Fletcher - big, capable and designed for ease of construction.

I am still pondering for the other categories...

Edit BB: Iowa. Big, beautiful and capable of taking on any other battleship in the world. The end of the BB era is not the only reason they were not replaced... (I like Vanguard, but she was designed only to use up some spare guns, so does not really count...)

[goodboyladdie]

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

CV: Midway - all the utility of an Essex, but with an armoured deck. As a testament to their good design they served for 50 years in their original Navy.

Sub: Type XXI - revolutionary. Designed for mass production with advanced features that shaped submarines for the future.

DD: Fletcher - big, capable and designed for ease of construction.

I am still pondering for the other categories...

Edit BB: Iowa. Big, beautiful and capable of taking on any other battleship in the world. The end of the BB era is not the only reason they were not replaced... (I like Vanguard, but she was designed only to use up some spare guns, so does not really count...)

For the Cruiser I am going for Brooklyn. She was a Heavy Cruiser with a big Light Cruiser main battery. Her design was good enough to form the basis of the development of future USN CLs AND CAs (Wichita being the link vessel).

For the Escort category, my heart says the Black Swan Class Sloop. They packed a huge AA punch and later, in the form of the Improved Black Swan became extraordinary Sub Killers too. However, the best design was the US DE family. The basic hull design was perfectly suited for adaption with different machinery, armament and bridge design over the range, all mass produced and cheap, to provide the numbers needed to win the ASW war across the Oceans.

For CVL, it has to be the British Light Fleet. Although a little too slow, the economy this gave, as well as the larger complements allowed by the lack of an armoured flight deck, meant that this utility design was able to serve for many years, through boom and bust.

[Crimguy]

I vote Iowa. Well built, well armored, upgradeable, had service life measured in decades.

[Terminus]

Post-war analysis of the Bismark seems to have been blinded by Nazi propaganda. She was touted as a fantastic, revolutionary, brilliant design, when in actual fact, she was about one evolutionary step forward from her HSF predecessor, the Baden class. A very, very overrated battleship.

[mdiehl]

BB: South Dakota class
CA: Baltimore class
CL: Atlanta class
DD: Gearing class
CV: Yorktown --> Essex class
ASW: Cannon class or USCG 327'.
Submarine: German Type XXI.

[Terminus]

The Atlanta? The single worst US cruiser design of all time?[8|]

[hawker]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Post-war analysis of the Bismark seems to have been blinded by Nazi propaganda. She was touted as a fantastic, revolutionary, brilliant design, when in actual fact, she was about one evolutionary step forward from her HSF predecessor, the Baden class. A very, very overrated battleship.

[8|]

P.S. Roman legions are overrated too[:D]

[rtrapasso]

i have to point out that there was a reason the type XXI subs never got into combat: while revolutionary in concept, there were so many design flaws that the Germans really couldn't get them to work correctly... one problem (which probably would have been fatal in many cases) was that much of the vital plumbing was located outside the pressure hulls, making them vulnerable to salt water, not to mention depth charges.

US personal assessing the design after the war were impressed by certain features, but didn't think they would be terribly robust in combat or daily use. i don't think any were retained by US or British forces very long except for some evaluation of the design.

[Terminus]

True. I believe the Russians based their Whiskey class on them, though.

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: hawker

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Post-war analysis of the Bismark seems to have been blinded by Nazi propaganda. She was touted as a fantastic, revolutionary, brilliant design, when in actual fact, she was about one evolutionary step forward from her HSF predecessor, the Baden class. A very, very overrated battleship.

[8|]

P.S. Roman legions are overrated too[:D]

It wasn't as good as half a century's worth of lazy historians have cut and pasted from each other to make you believe. It's only recently that people have actually taken a critical look at the Bismark. Maybe you should too, Hawker.

And I'm taking your "Roman legions" comment as a weak attempt at humour.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: hawker

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Post-war analysis of the Bismark seems to have been blinded by Nazi propaganda. She was touted as a fantastic, revolutionary, brilliant design, when in actual fact, she was about one evolutionary step forward from her HSF predecessor, the Baden class. A very, very overrated battleship.

[8|]

P.S. Roman legions are overrated too[:D]

The Bismarck assessment is pretty much what i've read from numerous sources.

There also was a serious design flaw or two: lack of paired screws meant that the ship could not be steered by engines if there was rudder damage - a flaw that led to her demise.

There was also some sort of systematic design flaw in the stern of large German warships - Bismarck's stern broke off when she sank... several other warships had similar catastrophic failures in their sterns structures.

[hawker]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: hawker

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Post-war analysis of the Bismark seems to have been blinded by Nazi propaganda. She was touted as a fantastic, revolutionary, brilliant design, when in actual fact, she was about one evolutionary step forward from her HSF predecessor, the Baden class. A very, very overrated battleship.

[8|]

P.S. Roman legions are overrated too[:D]

The Bismarck assessment is pretty much what i've read from numerous sources.

There also was a serious design or two: lack of paired screws meant that the ship could not be steered by engines if there was rudder damage - a flaw that led to her demise.

There was also some sort of systematic design flaw in the stern of large German warships - Bismarck's stern broke off when she sank... several other warships had similar catastrophic failures in their sterns structures.

Bismarck seen the battle,that is main point. So,you can see that she has flaws.

For example, Iowas NEVER seen real battle,if you exclude bombarding Iraq,thus you cant see if Iowas has flaws or not. You can see just big "IF"

Bismarck sunk pride of RN in five minutes and criple next pride of RN in one battle. Best navy ever hunt this ship,and all Home Fleet of that best navy stays in harbors just to be close IF Tirpitz make on sea.
THAT IS MEAN SOMETHING.

Now and fifty years from now,when you ask someone which ship you remember from WW2 era,it will be Bismarck.
Iowas,Yamatos etc. will cover shade of history,but Bismarck will be remembered.
Even five years old kid knows about this ship[;)]

[hawker]

And I'm taking your "Roman legions" comment as a weak attempt at humour.

You understand humour??
Since when?[:D]

[Terminus]

You won't be reasoned with, obviously, so I'm not going to try.

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

True. I believe the Russians based their Whiskey class on them, though.

The Zulu and the Whiskey-class as well as the French Narval are direct derivates of the Typ XXI
British and US designs after the war were basing on them.

It might not have been perfect, but it was not far away from it.

[niceguy2005]

For BBs I would say the Iowa class.  Yamato get honorable mention.  For all her fame I would not include Bismark.

In terms of cruisers, the Cleveland class.

I couldn't nominate the Atlantas, though certainly they may have been the best CLAAs.  Most of what I have read about CLAAs leads me to believe that they were a misguided branch in the design history of light cruisers and were generally ineffective.

[mdiehl]

For example, Iowas NEVER seen real battle,if you exclude bombarding Iraq,thus you cant see if Iowas has flaws or not. You can see just big "IF"

A reasonably well-informed "IF" shows that Iowa had the armor and armament to easily best Bismarck, since the latter couldn't penetrate an Iowa. And this says nothing about the inferior secondary armament and fire control on Bismarck.

Bismarck sunk pride of RN in five minutes and criple next pride of RN in one battle.

Bismarck sank a woefully undearmored battlecruiser with a lucky hit in five minutes, and just barely escaped from a British battleship even though the latter was deployed before her guns had been productively worked up. If KGV had been there, or even old Rodney, rather than Prince of Wales, Bismarck would have been sunk shortly after Hood went down.

Best navy ever hunt this ship,and all Home Fleet of that best navy stays in harbors just to be close IF Tirpitz make on sea. THAT IS MEAN SOMETHING.

Sure. It means that Germany was never going to build a significant, lasting strategic threat to the Atlantic seaways using surface ships, regardless of ship type deployed. The UK was every bit as aggressive hunting down Graf Spee, and no one would argue that Graf Spee was some faaabulous design.

Now and fifty years from now,when you ask someone which ship you remember from WW2 era,it will be Bismarck.
Iowas,Yamatos etc. will cover shade of history,but Bismarck will be remembered.

Yes. In most circles it will be remembered as a German white elephant. It will certainly never be remembered as the best designed white elephant.

Even five years old kid knows about this ship

Nope. Most American 5 y.o. don't know the first thing about it, because most American 5 y.o. don't need to know anything about German bb designs of WW2. If lots of German 5 y.o. remember Bismarck at all, it is testimony to the screwed up priorities or Axis Fanboy Yahooism of the people instructing German children. No intelligent, well informed person would imagine that Bismarck was a good design, much less the best design, among WW2 BBs.

[Nemo121]

Well, that didn't take too long to deteriorate into labelling a country as Nazis.

[JWE]

Geez Mikey, this is philosophical. You want to get all medaeval over specs? C'mon pal, 'design' is in the soul of the designer. There ain't no 'Best Designed' ship, just a bunch of hopes and dreams of fanbois.

Let's let this one play out. I, for one, would like to hear the fanboi excuses for this & that. After they put their puds on the table is a good time to whack their willies, unless, of course, they got their poop together better than you and me.

Can you hep me with this? Ciao.