Civilization Revolution - I think they've finally done it!

[killroyishere]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Are you certain that Sid Meier is all that involved with these games anymore? The impression I have gotten is that his name is used for marketing, and he pretty much goes about his own business, which is not game design anymore.

I think the first one was the only one he actually designed although as "director of creative development", or some such, he presumably is entitled to some of the credit Veldor is dishing out.

The new game sounds good to me, I've long since lost interest in the series as if I want to play a strategy game that takes that long there are many better ones. This one actually sounds fun... albeit it not enough fun to fork out on a PS3 to play it.

Obviously you didn't look at or play CIV IV very much or you would know it now comes with a short version and a small map that can be played in just a very short time. CIV IV is the best of the series as it provides for long term play huge maps or quick playable within an hour games with very few civilizations and small maps. It's now great for MP online as it no longer takes a lifetime to play out a game of Civilization IV MP online.

[Hanal]

ORIGINAL: 105mm Howitzer

Only beef about Civ Rev is that it's not for the PSP. However, they had the gall to bring it out for the DS..I mean, come on.

I just picked it up for the DS...I have not had any time yet to try it but plan to today.... I have to say that the DS is winning the "handheld strategic turn based gaming war" hands down...I am glad I chose DS over the PSP........

[terje439]

Bought it to PS3, played it a few times, however a CIV game completed in aprox one hour feels like civ-lite to me. So I will keep playing CIV on the PC and let the Civ Rev lie alone on the bench.

[madgamer2]

Oh come ON Veldor, Get real about Mr. Sid "I am the greatest" game designer ever according to young folks like yourself.The Original CIV was an instant hit even though nit was a bit rough around the edge"s. Wen CIV 2 came along things were better but there was a split in the making Sid went his own way and Microprose (MP) went theres.
To deal with the legal side there were 2 CIV 2 games one by MP and one by Sid's new company. Cracks started to show in Sid's design CIV games. The MP version was much better. For what ever reason CIV 3 was a total failier. He took the good parts of 1 & 2 and created a complex for its own sake game that looked great but had rules that simply did not work (Cav killing tanks) or make sense.
After fixing what was not broke but changing I never trusted him again and will not buy any further CIV games till I play someone else's copy. first. You called it right BEAST is what CIV 3 & 4 became. Don't talk to me about overly complex war games when you mention CIV 3 & 4 in the same breath.
Matrix and the games they sell and the community that has come out of them are made up of a lot of players who are tired of the finger twitching, FPS,and that grand SERIES OF GAMES CALLED REAL TIME STRATEGY games. You want the games Mr. Sid designs and most of us hear like strategic simulation games. Complexity is by its nature defined by the player. I do not have to understand how a game like War in the Pacific is put together or how every little routine works I just want to play it for the fun of playing it. You most likely play Mr. Sid's games for the same reason but you have no basis on which to tell us about how our games are to complex so just go back to Mr. Sid and his BEAST games and those senseless,layered games of his and let us get back to ours

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

Yes your basically right. After the great interest in CIV 1 there was a split and Sid went off to his own group and had the basic title you mention or one like it. As I have mentioned elsewhere in this thread there were 2 CIV 2 games the Microprose (MP) version and Mr. Sid's version. If you can find a copy of the MP version it is a much better game than Mr. Sid's version.

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

as an after thought if there is indeed a coming full circle effect going on in strategy games do you put WbtS as one of them?
As for Blitz and the rest of the old AH games. I loved them and played them but boardgames could never thrive in complexity like computer games because the computer is able to do a lot of the busy work of and let the players play the game. When boardgames became very large and complex they got set up looked at and played a little and gathered dust. I still remember 8 guys at the 77 Origins conventions setting up that massive Pacific game and trying to get through a couple of turns before the con was over.

Madgamer

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: madgamer

Oh come ON Veldor, Get real about Mr. Sid "I am the greatest" game designer ever according to young folks like yourself.The Original CIV was an instant hit even though nit was a bit rough around the edge"s. Wen CIV 2 came along things were better but there was a split in the making Sid went his own way and Microprose (MP) went theres.
To deal with the legal side there were 2 CIV 2 games one by MP and one by Sid's new company. Cracks started to show in Sid's design CIV games. The MP version was much better. For what ever reason CIV 3 was a total failier. He took the good parts of 1 & 2 and created a complex for its own sake game that looked great but had rules that simply did not work (Cav killing tanks) or make sense.
After fixing what was not broke but changing I never trusted him again and will not buy any further CIV games till I play someone else's copy. first. You called it right BEAST is what CIV 3 & 4 became. Don't talk to me about overly complex war games when you mention CIV 3 & 4 in the same breath.
Matrix and the games they sell and the community that has come out of them are made up of a lot of players who are tired of the finger twitching, FPS,and that grand SERIES OF GAMES CALLED REAL TIME STRATEGY games. You want the games Mr. Sid designs and most of us hear like strategic simulation games. Complexity is by its nature defined by the player. I do not have to understand how a game like War in the Pacific is put together or how every little routine works I just want to play it for the fun of playing it. You most likely play Mr. Sid's games for the same reason but you have no basis on which to tell us about how our games are to complex so just go back to Mr. Sid and his BEAST games and those senseless,layered games of his and let us get back to ours

Madgamer

So what would you have had them do? Make a bad port of CIV4 to the console? Make a more complicated CIV5 and put that on the console? Just ignore console users altogehter since your not personally a fan?

Please also don't put words in others peoples mouths since I never said what you claim. I play even the most complicated games and always have. What I did intend to say was that the Civ line is tired and that there is more than one way to "revitalize" a game without re-releasing it with more and more detail and greater levels of micro-management which you yourself point out many would not even leverage. So you just get the same tired game again. So instead of CIV5 we got a wholely reimagined Civ which, simpler or not, at least has a different feel when you play it than CIV3/4 etc. So that's to be commended.

I did love Call to Power but If I had to pick a favorite Civilization game its the computer or boardgame version of Advanced Civilization by AH.

PS. I also happen to know that Sid Meier personally worked on this CIV game and if the thought of that gets you all up in arms then, by all means, look into it yourself (Google it, make some calls, whatever). I guarantee its true.

So one more time. Thanks you Sid.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: madgamer
If you can find a copy of the MP version it is a much better game than Mr. Sid's version.

Madgamer

There are a lot of them out there, and they're dirt cheap (I don't mention places here other than Matrix where games can be bought, otherwise I'd talk about Amazon and eBay). Be sure also to get the Scenarios and Fantastic Worlds add-ons, as these not only contain fun scenarios, but patch the basic game in very desirable ways, as well.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Veldor
I did love Call to Power but If I had to pick a favorite Civilization game its the computer or boardgame version of Advanced Civilization by AH....

So one more time. Thanks you Sid.

And thanks YOU, Veldor.

I hated Call to Power, but I fully agree with you about the excellence of AH's computer rendition of Advanced Civilization, a game that is on my hard drive and that I currently play from time to time. It's great when you play against the maximum number of computer civilizations. They are all backstabbers, and it's not just you they backstab.

Wait 'til the first time you get overconfident about how you're doing, then draw Civil War from the Commodities deck.

I love how you can trade away Epidemic and be Typhoid Mary, because it doesn't affect the player who traded it away... but it sure croaks off a lot of your friendly enemies' citizenry (if they don't have the civilization advance Medicine, which greatly ameliorates its effects).

Great game, and tremendously underrated fun. There are a couple of hilarious things built surreptitiously into the game, as well. For example, the soundtrack accompanying announcement of the Earthquake calamity is Marvin the Martian saying, "Where's the kaboom? There's supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!"

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
I hated Call to Power

What I remember liking about it was that, again, it played a bit different from the traditional civ line of games. Underwater cities and mech units and other things that at the time made it seem a bit fresh even if mechanically it wasn't so much.

, but I fully agree with you about the excellence of AH's computer rendition of Advanced Civilization, a game that is on my hard drive and that I currently play from time to time.

..........

Great game, and tremendously underrated fun. There are a couple of hilarious things built surreptitiously into the game, as well. For example, the soundtrack accompanying announcement of the Earthquake calamity is Marvin the Martian saying, "Where's the kaboom? There's supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!"

Too bad they never made a multiplayer internet version. I don't think I've gotten to play with anyone else since the very early 90's (Boardgame). I had it working under XP but haven't tried it again for Vista. It's on a very short list of games I never grow tired of. Once again though its not due to the games actual complexity but rather the gameplay and the depth/complexity of the strategies and choices to be made. It was also a very very well done port to the PC. The experience playing it on the PC is very close to the original, social aspects aside.

[Vyshka]

ORIGINAL: Veldor

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
I hated Call to Power

What I remember liking about it was that, again, it played a bit different from the traditional civ line of games. Underwater cities and mech units and other things that at the time made it seem a bit fresh even if mechanically it wasn't so much.

, but I fully agree with you about the excellence of AH's computer rendition of Advanced Civilization, a game that is on my hard drive and that I currently play from time to time.

..........

Great game, and tremendously underrated fun. There are a couple of hilarious things built surreptitiously into the game, as well. For example, the soundtrack accompanying announcement of the Earthquake calamity is Marvin the Martian saying, "Where's the kaboom? There's supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!"

Too bad they never made a multiplayer internet version. I don't think I've gotten to play with anyone else since the very early 90's (Boardgame). I had it working under XP but haven't tried it again for Vista. It's on a very short list of games I never grow tired of. Once again though its not due to the games actual complexity but rather the gameplay and the depth/complexity of the strategies and choices to be made. It was also a very very well done port to the PC. The experience playing it on the PC is very close to the original, social aspects aside.

Unfortnately the company went under when all the money they spent on suing MP over Civilization didn't pan out. [:(]

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: Vyshka
Unfortnately the company went under when all the money they spent on suing MP over Civilization didn't pan out. [:(]

Only becaue MicroProse played a little dirty and responded to the lawsuit by buying Hartland Trefoil, owner of the Civilization boardgame that licensed it to Avalon Hill in the first place for publication in America.

Talk about leaving the competition dumbfounded and speechless in the courtroom!

Avalon Hills only silent revenge was that MicroProse ultimately also went bankrupt over the court case and had to be bought out by Hasbro Interactive which subsequentely was taken over by Infogrames, which subsequentley changed its name to Atari Inc.

PS. For clarification Hasbro bought both companies in the same month (ie. all money, assets, & intellectual properties were theirs either way regardless of the legal outcome of those who couldn't play nice ) I find that fact one of the funniest in gaming history.

[madgamer2]

Yes Sid did start something when he designed the first 2 CIV games. I was not aware that he was involved in 3 & 4 as well. To me its a bit sad that if he was involved in 3 & 4 because they were so much the worse than either of the 2 CIV 2 games. I think I let my disappointment in buying and trying to play #&4 overcome my ability to see the truth about the CIV series. I loved the CIV 2 games and the AH game you mention but was taken aback by what CIV 3&4 came to be to me .....that is a great disappointment. Truth is we do owe him something for what he has done.
Perhaps I was angry because of what I saw had happened to a great game when CIV 3&4 came on the scene. I have a good friend who loves 3 and 4 even more so it takes all in this hobby of gaming. I met no personal insult to you but there are times when I act first and think later. Maybe I'll dig out that old test of time game for one more try.
BTW it so happens that couynting me 5 was the number of players I liked in my CIV games LOL.

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

I have them but I never got the hang of that space version LOL I will have to dig it out and play it now....see what you have done LOL

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

Have you ever tried the program called DOSBox? It runs well under XP but I have not found anyone who has tried it under vista if youhave I would love to know if it works

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

thanks for the history lesson. I always wondered what happened after the smoke cleared. MP going under was interesting after what they did. So you are saying that Atari ended up with the rights to them games? I wonder why no new releases ever came out of Atari. Maybe you can shed some light on that as well.

Madgamer

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: madgamer

thanks for the history lesson. I always wondered what happened after the smoke cleared. MP going under was interesting after what they did. So you are saying that Atari ended up with the rights to them games? I wonder why no new releases ever came out of Atari. Maybe you can shed some light on that as well.

Madgamer

Im not sure that Sid was involved in Civ3 or Civ4, I never really got into those, maybe someone else can comment. All I know is that he definitely was involved in Civilization Revolution and quite a bit at that.

DosBox is what I used to run Advanced Civilization on XP. I'm sure there is a compatible Vista version by now. I always hated getting sound working since I don't really have much need for DOSBox beyond 1 or 2 AH Titles. I played Advanced Civilization for awhile once with no sound... it doesnt really need it.

As far as Atari, yeah they basically now have the rights to all those games (The electronic ones). As for why no titles Id imagine they just arent that popular at present.. You would need a bit more mass market appeal and thats another reason why I like Civilization Revolution. If that trend gets going it could cause the likes of Atari to "dust off" a few of the simpler games for console conversion etc. That in turn leads to medium complexity titles and so forth.

But, pipe dreams aside, a lot of the good stuff has reverted to its original owners. Others are legally ambiguous and therefore won't be touched. The remainder we shall have to wait and see...

Another brilliant game designing Sid was Mr. Sid Sackson... Original Designer of ACQUIRE, among many others...

[madgamer2]

Thanks for the info. I thought I was correct about Sid's involvement in CIV 3&4. THose gamers are not what Sid would have produced. Given the Law suite and MP under handed dirty deal I do not blame him for not becoming involved in any more CIV games. Its to bad one of my pipe dreams is what if he had done another one....oh well life goes on.
I think that getting him to do the CIV 5 shows what can be done with a smaller game platform and a good designer. I to hope the ball gets rolling again for a new PC CIV game but what would really be cool would be having Sid design it.
I am older than you (67) and I was raised on some great DOS games. I have no idea where vista now stands with DOS and open GL software but I have to many great games in XP to ever give it up even when (GASP) i have to. The only title I ever played that had anything to do with Atari was the original "Dungeon Master" when they brought it out for the ill faded Apple GS. I had to pay a fortune for memory for the extra memory card for that GS just to play it LOL

Madgamer

[EUBanana]

Rise of Nations was a civ-lite, and I think it rocked.

I didn't actually like either civ 3 or civ 4.  The best one, IMHO, that Sid's name is against, was Alpha Centauri.


I actually liked the one Activision made - Call to Power 1.  When it came out it got slagged off big time because Activision basically gave Sid the thumbscrew - so they made CoP, and Sid made Civ3.  But I think Call to Power was infinitely better than Civ3.  The way improvements like roads worked (a public works budget) was IMHO the best worker unit mechanic of any civ-like game yet.  The trade route system was pretty cool too.  People didnt like the funny special units, like Lawyers and Corporations, but pff, not much different from religion and corporations in the latest games really.

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: madgamer

I am older than you (67) and I was raised on some great DOS games. I have no idea where vista now stands with DOS and open GL software but I have to many great games in XP to ever give it up even when (GASP) i have to. The only title I ever played that had anything to do with Atari was the original "Dungeon Master" when they brought it out for the ill faded Apple GS. I had to pay a fortune for memory for the extra memory card for that GS just to play it LOL

Madgamer

How do you know how old I am? When I once posted that my birthday was 1/5/98 I was just kidding. I'm not nearly that old...