I've been playing it against the AI.
I'm enjoying myself. It's fun to play various powers and work out their strengths and weaknesses.
I like this game. Worth the wait.
Is This Game Playable Yet?
Moderator: MOD_EIA
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
ORIGINAL: Kai
I've been playing it against the AI.
I'm enjoying myself. It's fun to play various powers and work out their strengths and weaknesses.
I like this game. Worth the wait.
Do you find it hard to understand like I keep seeing in posts? What you said is what I wanted to hear by the way. [;)]
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
To LarryP
Well we are used to listening to this type of retoric and wining response from neverman, so I wouldnt take too much greedance to it actually. [>:]
Because you can play it as slow as you like or as fast as you like, its all to do with the people you are gaming with at the time.
We have 72hour, 48hour, 24hour turn arounds and we have 24 minute turn arounds, it all depends on how you manage it, and who you have to play with, and the time people have to play it.
[:D] I remember neverman saying that the game will never come out, and
you know and more and he "never" seems to stop "man"
But i guess some people are never happy unless they have a grip hey
If you dont like it, then dont play it, if you want to do something other than complain, get some people together who want to play 24 minute turn arounds, there are people out there.
Streamlined or not it doesnt matter, its the people playing
Well we are used to listening to this type of retoric and wining response from neverman, so I wouldnt take too much greedance to it actually. [>:]
Because you can play it as slow as you like or as fast as you like, its all to do with the people you are gaming with at the time.
We have 72hour, 48hour, 24hour turn arounds and we have 24 minute turn arounds, it all depends on how you manage it, and who you have to play with, and the time people have to play it.
[:D] I remember neverman saying that the game will never come out, and
you know and more and he "never" seems to stop "man"But i guess some people are never happy unless they have a grip hey
If you dont like it, then dont play it, if you want to do something other than complain, get some people together who want to play 24 minute turn arounds, there are people out there.
Streamlined or not it doesnt matter, its the people playing
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
I'm not sure what greedance is gazfun, but maybe I have it, LOL.
24 hour turnaround is the only way to go. I agree with Borner about Marshall, taking all these jabs and staying postive, that's what you need as a business man with a new product.
I actually didn't think this thing would ever get released, and IMO, it still hasn't. Empires in Arms is OUT THERE SOMEWHERE waiting to be developed in IP play. Maybe one day we will all get lucky and see it happen by someone, somewhere out there, who knows.
This is NOT Empires in Arms. Any claim to be such is a fraud. It's Empires in Harms and nothing more. That's just fact.
24 hour turnaround is the only way to go. I agree with Borner about Marshall, taking all these jabs and staying postive, that's what you need as a business man with a new product.
I actually didn't think this thing would ever get released, and IMO, it still hasn't. Empires in Arms is OUT THERE SOMEWHERE waiting to be developed in IP play. Maybe one day we will all get lucky and see it happen by someone, somewhere out there, who knows.
This is NOT Empires in Arms. Any claim to be such is a fraud. It's Empires in Harms and nothing more. That's just fact.
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
Well it looks like what this game really needs since it is not cheap, is a good demo with the manual included. I know, some gamers say that demos are worthless, but I think the opposite. Demos have sold the game to me and otherwise. I have an acquaintance here on the forums that bought this game the day it was available, and he collects boardgames and has since childhood. He said that this game is unplayable because he doesn't know what to do next. This was before it was ever patched.
Like I said before, I will only play this game solo against the AI. The main reason is my physical condition and not being able to depend on myself to return a turn in a timely fashion. So that's the story here. [8D]
So is it playable against the AI yet? [&:]
Like I said before, I will only play this game solo against the AI. The main reason is my physical condition and not being able to depend on myself to return a turn in a timely fashion. So that's the story here. [8D]
So is it playable against the AI yet? [&:]
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
So is it playable against the AI yet?
Yes, it has been playable against the AI since it was released. Experienced players will not be challenged by the AI, but as a newcomer you should not be quickly frustrated by AI performance. As I alluded to earlier, there is much to learn about playing this game and playing each country. The AI may not be great, but it does perform fairly well and offers a few surprises. And it is getting noticeably better with updates, and should continue to do so.
I still find myself tripping over my own dumb mistakes about as often as I find something about the AI that irritates me. There is a steep learning curve to the game, regardless of whether it's 100% bug-free or not, and from my perspective the game and AI have been improving about as fast as I have been. I have not had the time to devote to this game, so as a patient and occassional player I've been able to enjoy playing the game against the AI. Like everyone else, I want to see the bugs fixed, the AI improved and enhanced, additional features implements, more scenarios and an editor added, etc., etc., etc. And yet, while we wait for all these things, the game is here and is playable. Marshall needs feedback from newcomers starting from scratch as much as he needs experienced "rules-lawyers" harping about every nitnoid deviation in the game.
Jump in and have some fun. [:)]
Bill Macon
Empires in Arms Developer
Strategic Command Developer
Empires in Arms Developer
Strategic Command Developer
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yammahoper
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:14 pm
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
The game is playable.
That said, the AI is not aggressive. It does fight well enough, mostly defensively. Its offensives are a bit more limited. A very steady and patient approach will always win in the end, with a few exceptions. Because the AI fights well, losing battles can change everything. Some nations are easier to play than others. The only nation I have played were the AI has been able to force me to surrender is Prussia. The big French stack beat me down in three straigh battles and held my capital. This was early in the game, and I noticed three game years later I was able to hold my own against the French armies because they had far to many militia, which waters down the morale, an edge the Fr should not easily surrender.
I have seen a few brilliant moves by the AI, but only a few, and I have tried many experiements. Invading Russia as the Austrian I left my depots unprotected, but the cossacks never moved in and cut my suppply. Seriously, the primary use of the Cossacks should be cutting or blocking the supply of invaders, or seizing minors when on the offensive if the minors capital lacks a garrison.
After playing numerous games against the AI, I have learned to like the interface.
yamma
That said, the AI is not aggressive. It does fight well enough, mostly defensively. Its offensives are a bit more limited. A very steady and patient approach will always win in the end, with a few exceptions. Because the AI fights well, losing battles can change everything. Some nations are easier to play than others. The only nation I have played were the AI has been able to force me to surrender is Prussia. The big French stack beat me down in three straigh battles and held my capital. This was early in the game, and I noticed three game years later I was able to hold my own against the French armies because they had far to many militia, which waters down the morale, an edge the Fr should not easily surrender.
I have seen a few brilliant moves by the AI, but only a few, and I have tried many experiements. Invading Russia as the Austrian I left my depots unprotected, but the cossacks never moved in and cut my suppply. Seriously, the primary use of the Cossacks should be cutting or blocking the supply of invaders, or seizing minors when on the offensive if the minors capital lacks a garrison.
After playing numerous games against the AI, I have learned to like the interface.
yamma
...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...
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testcase4321
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:16 am
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
Well, I think the answer depends on how you define you terms.
Is this game technically playable? Yes. The game has rules which both human and computer players follow. The game has a beginning and an end. The game makes sense. So yes, it is playable.
Are you trying to ask if the game is fun/challenging? If so, the answer is not really. In my view, the essence of a good strategy game is that you are challenged (in logical ways and with a bit of luck) during the early and mid game. By the end of the game your superior intellect should have allowed you to defeat your opponents. Unfortunately, this really isnt the case with EIA.
Playing against the computer, you will likely never be challenged by the system. Players will write that this game is complex and that a computer can never match the brain power of a human player. This is of course contrary to the entire gaming industry where good games are measured by how they challenge their human players. Think any of the Civilization games, Close combat, Europa Universalis series, etc.
Playing against other people is much more challenging. However, this is also an extremely time consuming process. In a 'fast' game (where you have 24 hrs to process your turn), I think someone documented that one week of real time is needed to process each month of game time. This translates into over two years of real time to finish one game.
This is not to say that EIA has not improved over the last six months. It definitely has. The problem is that it just has a long way to go before I personally could recommend shelling out $70
Is this game technically playable? Yes. The game has rules which both human and computer players follow. The game has a beginning and an end. The game makes sense. So yes, it is playable.
Are you trying to ask if the game is fun/challenging? If so, the answer is not really. In my view, the essence of a good strategy game is that you are challenged (in logical ways and with a bit of luck) during the early and mid game. By the end of the game your superior intellect should have allowed you to defeat your opponents. Unfortunately, this really isnt the case with EIA.
Playing against the computer, you will likely never be challenged by the system. Players will write that this game is complex and that a computer can never match the brain power of a human player. This is of course contrary to the entire gaming industry where good games are measured by how they challenge their human players. Think any of the Civilization games, Close combat, Europa Universalis series, etc.
Playing against other people is much more challenging. However, this is also an extremely time consuming process. In a 'fast' game (where you have 24 hrs to process your turn), I think someone documented that one week of real time is needed to process each month of game time. This translates into over two years of real time to finish one game.
This is not to say that EIA has not improved over the last six months. It definitely has. The problem is that it just has a long way to go before I personally could recommend shelling out $70
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
im still sittin on the fence with this game as well. ive never really been a fan of pbem due to how long games take to progress but just last sunday i started my 1st ever pbem game of witp and i must say ive been pleasantl surprised as me and my opponent are crankin out 2 turns a day which is a good pace.
obviosly witp is a 1 vs game whereas this game could be a 6 player affair. when people talk about 24 hour turn arounds what do they mean by that? for eg.
does it mean that all players are takin their turns within 24 hours (good for me) or does it mean that each player is takin 24 hours = 6 players takin 24 hours = the game progresses 1 turn after 6 days (bad for me)?
obviosly witp is a 1 vs game whereas this game could be a 6 player affair. when people talk about 24 hour turn arounds what do they mean by that? for eg.
does it mean that all players are takin their turns within 24 hours (good for me) or does it mean that each player is takin 24 hours = 6 players takin 24 hours = the game progresses 1 turn after 6 days (bad for me)?
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
Sadly, I think its 24 hours per phase, per player, per turn.
So with multiple phases in a turn, and 7 players each turn, one month of play could take days/weeks!
So with multiple phases in a turn, and 7 players each turn, one month of play could take days/weeks!
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
Ray: Yes, 1 month of game time in a week of real time is pretty good movement. During peace times, the game can really fly by (just like in ftf) if everyone is paying attention (though this rarely happens).
tonedog: 24 hour turnaround means that each player has 24 hours to do his/her turn. Since turns are not simul. you can't have a 24 hour turnaround for all players. If you wanted to achieve this, for 7 players, you would have to have a ~3.5 hour turnaround per player and you can see how this is simply not feasible given the different geographic locations of many players.
I must say that some of my PBEM games are rather exciting while others are just plain dull. It really depends on the dedication of the group and how often people can do their turns. Some people take the whole 24 or (god forbid) 48 hours to do their turn, which I simply don't understand. It takes me roughly 5-10 minutes to do my turn (sometimes a little more, sometimes less if I have nothing to do), so it's not like it's time consuming. IMO, it's important to use a file system that lets you broadcast messages to the group announces that you have done your turn and uploaded your file; otherwise, people just don't check or forget and the game drags on.
Thresh: I disagree regarding simul Dip phases since I think all the things you mentioned can be handled through email diplomacy (which doesn't need a game slowing time frame since it can be done simul with all the other parts of the game, something NOT done in ftf that I like). If you don't want to call and ally or he doesn't want you to then you shouldn't have that boxed checked. There is nothing "random" about DoWs, they happen because someone made them happen, how is this an issue?
As for the AI: I have recently downloaded the newest patch and must say that the AI is getting smarter, it seems. Turkey for some reason is not and i don't know why, but most of the other countries are doing diplomacy a little better (except alliances). For example, as Ru I DOWd Pr in March 1805 and it immediately cond. surrendered to me (minimizing my PP gain and maximizing his PP loss) and I thought, wow, what a smart decision (since I had mass troops on his borders and he was nowhere to be found).
tonedog: 24 hour turnaround means that each player has 24 hours to do his/her turn. Since turns are not simul. you can't have a 24 hour turnaround for all players. If you wanted to achieve this, for 7 players, you would have to have a ~3.5 hour turnaround per player and you can see how this is simply not feasible given the different geographic locations of many players.
I must say that some of my PBEM games are rather exciting while others are just plain dull. It really depends on the dedication of the group and how often people can do their turns. Some people take the whole 24 or (god forbid) 48 hours to do their turn, which I simply don't understand. It takes me roughly 5-10 minutes to do my turn (sometimes a little more, sometimes less if I have nothing to do), so it's not like it's time consuming. IMO, it's important to use a file system that lets you broadcast messages to the group announces that you have done your turn and uploaded your file; otherwise, people just don't check or forget and the game drags on.
Thresh: I disagree regarding simul Dip phases since I think all the things you mentioned can be handled through email diplomacy (which doesn't need a game slowing time frame since it can be done simul with all the other parts of the game, something NOT done in ftf that I like). If you don't want to call and ally or he doesn't want you to then you shouldn't have that boxed checked. There is nothing "random" about DoWs, they happen because someone made them happen, how is this an issue?
As for the AI: I have recently downloaded the newest patch and must say that the AI is getting smarter, it seems. Turkey for some reason is not and i don't know why, but most of the other countries are doing diplomacy a little better (except alliances). For example, as Ru I DOWd Pr in March 1805 and it immediately cond. surrendered to me (minimizing my PP gain and maximizing his PP loss) and I thought, wow, what a smart decision (since I had mass troops on his borders and he was nowhere to be found).
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
so if there are 7 players in a game and each player takes 24 hours at least, then the game will progress at a rate of ONE turn a week! think id rather watch grass growin to be honest, it might be a little quicker. respect to u guys for putin up with that.
the only way i could imagine playin the game by pbem would be in a 1 vs 1 match, at least then the game would be averagin 1 turn a day at least. but with what ive read about the AI then i guess that would be a non starter.
are there any pbem games goin on where the game moves along at lets say one game turn a day, and i dont mean individuall turns, i mean overall game turns. i doubt it but i though id ask anyway.
the only way i could imagine playin the game by pbem would be in a 1 vs 1 match, at least then the game would be averagin 1 turn a day at least. but with what ive read about the AI then i guess that would be a non starter.
are there any pbem games goin on where the game moves along at lets say one game turn a day, and i dont mean individuall turns, i mean overall game turns. i doubt it but i though id ask anyway.
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Marshall Ellis
- Posts: 5630
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 3:00 pm
- Location: Dallas
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
ORIGINAL: tonedog
so if there are 7 players in a game and each player takes 24 hours at least, then the game will progress at a rate of ONE turn a week! think id rather watch grass growin to be honest, it might be a little quicker. respect to u guys for putin up with that.
the only way i could imagine playin the game by pbem would be in a 1 vs 1 match, at least then the game would be averagin 1 turn a day at least. but with what ive read about the AI then i guess that would be a non starter.
are there any pbem games goin on where the game moves along at lets say one game turn a day, and i dont mean individuall turns, i mean overall game turns. i doubt it but i though id ask anyway.
I don't any PBEM game would be a turn a day??? I don't think working folk could keep that pace (At least I haven't seen that). You should see a much quicker pace than Cyberboard since I've taken any rules debates out of the game. This is usually what would break up a game again in my experiences.
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
ORIGINAL: tonedog
so if there are 7 players in a game and each player takes 24 hours at least, then the game will progress at a rate of ONE turn a week! think id rather watch grass growin to be honest, it might be a little quicker. respect to u guys for putin up with that.
the only way i could imagine playin the game by pbem would be in a 1 vs 1 match, at least then the game would be averagin 1 turn a day at least. but with what ive read about the AI then i guess that would be a non starter.
are there any pbem games goin on where the game moves along at lets say one game turn a day, and i dont mean individuall turns, i mean overall game turns. i doubt it but i though id ask anyway.
Every now and again the CleverDevils2 game moves this (or close to it) fast, but combat really slows things down. You can check out the games from the AAR (After Action Reports) forum, then click on the CleverDevils2 thread.
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
am i right in sayin that u dont think 1 turn a day is possible in any pbem game? as i said, im currently playin a pbem game of witp which is a very complex game and me and my opponent are managin 1 and sometime 2 turns a day so its defo possible. why wouldnt it be if a turn take 15 to 20 mins or maybe im pickin u up wrong.
the problem with eia is that if u have multiple players then thats when the game grinds to snails pace. the obvious solution is tcp/ip play, im sure there are a fair number of people who would dedicate 3 or 4 hours once a week to play this way but i guess that irrelavant as from what ive read here its never gonna happen.
the problem with eia is that if u have multiple players then thats when the game grinds to snails pace. the obvious solution is tcp/ip play, im sure there are a fair number of people who would dedicate 3 or 4 hours once a week to play this way but i guess that irrelavant as from what ive read here its never gonna happen.
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Marshall Ellis
- Posts: 5630
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 3:00 pm
- Location: Dallas
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
I should clarify bit ...
No, I don't think that a 7 player PBEM game could keep that pace.
2 players? Yes, I believe it could.
No, I don't think that a 7 player PBEM game could keep that pace.
2 players? Yes, I believe it could.
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
ORIGINAL: tonedog
am i right in sayin that u dont think 1 turn a day is possible in any pbem game? as i said, im currently playin a pbem game of witp which is a very complex game and me and my opponent are managin 1 and sometime 2 turns a day so its defo possible. why wouldnt it be if a turn take 15 to 20 mins or maybe im pickin u up wrong.
the problem with eia is that if u have multiple players then thats when the game grinds to snails pace. the obvious solution is tcp/ip play, im sure there are a fair number of people who would dedicate 3 or 4 hours once a week to play this way but i guess that irrelavant as from what ive read here its never gonna happen.
1. Like I said, in order for a turn to happen, every player has to get their turn in with a maximum time of 3.5 hours each, so, yes it's possible (since some players will turn theirs in much faster) and I have played a game where this has happened. Actually during peace, I believe there was a weekend where we went through a month of game time in 1.5 days, that's pretty good. The bottom line is that PBEM play was not meant to be fast, this game was not meant to be fast and therefore, it's not going to be fast.
2. None of the Matrix people have ever said TCP/IP was "never gonna happen", in fact, they are open to the idea, EVENTUALLY. I DID SAY in another thread that tcp/ip EiA was never going to happen (and I still highly doubt it), since this game is NOT EiA and is actually EiH. I just didn't want to put words into Matrix's mouth, I know how they hate that.
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Marshall Ellis
- Posts: 5630
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 3:00 pm
- Location: Dallas
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
ORIGINAL: NeverMan
2. None of the Matrix people have ever said TCP/IP was "never gonna happen", in fact, they are open to the idea, EVENTUALLY. I DID SAY in another thread that tcp/ip EiA was never going to happen (and I still highly doubt it), since this game is NOT EiA and is actually EiH. I just didn't want to put words into Matrix's mouth, I know how they hate that.
LOL! Never say never Neverman!
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testcase4321
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:16 am
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
ORIGINAL: NeverMan
ORIGINAL: tonedog
so if there are 7 players in a game and each player takes 24 hours at least, then the game will progress at a rate of ONE turn a week! think id rather watch grass growin to be honest, it might be a little quicker. respect to u guys for putin up with that.
the only way i could imagine playin the game by pbem would be in a 1 vs 1 match, at least then the game would be averagin 1 turn a day at least. but with what ive read about the AI then i guess that would be a non starter.
are there any pbem games goin on where the game moves along at lets say one game turn a day, and i dont mean individuall turns, i mean overall game turns. i doubt it but i though id ask anyway.
Every now and again the CleverDevils2 game moves this (or close to it) fast, but combat really slows things down. You can check out the games from the AAR (After Action Reports) forum, then click on the CleverDevils2 thread.
I'm guessing that the CleverDevils2 team is relatively normal in terms of how long it takes to play the PBEM version. If you look at their reports, it seems that 7 months of real time have equated to 2 years of game time. Soooo, to complete a game at this rate we'd be looking at 35 months or approximately 3 years. . . .
RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?
ORIGINAL: testcase4321
ORIGINAL: NeverMan
ORIGINAL: tonedog
so if there are 7 players in a game and each player takes 24 hours at least, then the game will progress at a rate of ONE turn a week! think id rather watch grass growin to be honest, it might be a little quicker. respect to u guys for putin up with that.
the only way i could imagine playin the game by pbem would be in a 1 vs 1 match, at least then the game would be averagin 1 turn a day at least. but with what ive read about the AI then i guess that would be a non starter.
are there any pbem games goin on where the game moves along at lets say one game turn a day, and i dont mean individuall turns, i mean overall game turns. i doubt it but i though id ask anyway.
Every now and again the CleverDevils2 game moves this (or close to it) fast, but combat really slows things down. You can check out the games from the AAR (After Action Reports) forum, then click on the CleverDevils2 thread.
I'm guessing that the CleverDevils2 team is relatively normal in terms of how long it takes to play the PBEM version. If you look at their reports, it seems that 7 months of real time have equated to 2 years of game time. Soooo, to complete a game at this rate we'd be looking at 35 months or approximately 3 years. . . .
Keep in mind that the former Russian player dropped out of the game, so there was a slight lapse in time before I can in as a substitute.
All said and done tough, that's to "complete" a game. While I have completed some EiA FTF games, the vast majority of them have been done before 1810 in one way or another. Despite EiA or EiANW, that's just the nature of the beast.