AI for MWIF Netherlands

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

*NEI Defence C

This setup is particulary clever IMO, because a lot of Japanese players prefer to simply invade freely on the Oil fields of the NEI, securing the capital city later, to immediately have this oil to reorg just at the end of their onslaught all around invasion turn.
The Swamp and the city makes Palembang a particulary difficult spot to invade.

We also need to take into consideration if the optional rule for Territorials is NOT being used.

[hjaco]

[quote]ORIGINAL: Froonp
20% is a quite low chance to consider there is a paradrop threat, isn't it ?
[quote]

Agreed - that's only a viable option in conjunction with an overland attack (same as invading with a division).

[hjaco]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

*NEI Defence C

This setup is particulary clever IMO, because a lot of Japanese players prefer to simply invade freely on the Oil fields of the NEI, securing the capital city later, to immediately have this oil to reorg just at the end of their onslaught all around invasion turn.
The Swamp and the city makes Palembang a particulary difficult spot to invade.

I must disagree Froonp. Invading a city in a swamp even in a surprise impulse requires some commitment better used elsewhere. In the conquest fase the Territorial is automatically removed anyway and Tojo only looses a couple of oil for one turn.

Oh - and the allies can't cooperate with that Territorail unit so they can't reinforce the hex.

The allies can make life miserable for the Japanese player with reinforcing Batavia (I have been there [:(]) so that should have top priority.

[Froonp]

The allies can make life miserable for the Japanese player with reinforcing Batavia (I have been there [:(]) so that should have top priority.

Whatever defends Batavia, given the power of the IJN and the undefendable state of the hex of Batavia, there is nothing the Allies can do to prevent its fall. So, if the Japanese is in bad need of oil, I'd consider defending the oil wells of Palembang.

[peskpesk]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Well, I do not agree with all this :

Threat of paradrop on Amsterdam:

IF the Weather is Storm or Blizzard the no risk of paradrop

IF any of the countries at war has a:

Organized ATR AND
it’s in supply or can be put in supply AND
the ATR has range to Amsterdam or can be put in range of it AND

Can be put in range of Amsterdam ?
How ?
If an ATR is not in range from Amsterdam, it is out of range from Amsterdam, and can't be put in range from Amsterdam during this impulse. The Air Rebase Step is after the Paradrop Step, so there is no way the ATR can be put in range if it is not at the start of the Impulse (The only way would be Naval Transport, was this what you supposed) (which is right for the ATR, but wrong for the PARA, that CAN move to its ATR during the land movement step).

there is a organized PARA AND
it’s in supply or can be put in supply AND
the PARA has range to ATR or can be put in range of it AND
the PARA and the ATR belongs to countries that can cooperate AND
the chance of a successful paradrop is > 20 %

20% is a quite low chance to consider there is a paradrop threat, isn't it ?

THEN

There is threat of paradrop on Amsterdam

1) Can be put in range of Amsterdam ? How ? Answer, is as you figured out to a Naval Transport.

2) How big % you like the rule to say there is a risk of a successful paradrop

[peskpesk]

ORIGINAL: Froonp
There is a variant to this, if the weather is Rain, and the No ZoC optional is not in play, and the Germans have no possibility of Invasion of the Dutch coast, and no possibility of paradrop on Amsterdam, and Belgium is still neutral and was not DoWed too.
This is to setup the 4-3 INF on the resource.
The ZoC of the Dutch unit block any German advance, and the rain prevent any breaktrough, as well as giving a -2 penalty (2d10 CRT) and a lesser chance of ground strike.
With this setup, none of Amsterdam or Rotterdam can be German at the end of the 1st Impulse, and the CW can consider reinforcing with 4 units and prevent the Dutch surrender, and maybe gain an US Entry for supporting a minor country.

This seems like a lot of conditions, but for a German attacking soon (S/O 39 or N/D 39), this have a lot of chances to happen).

Overruning this Dutch units under rain needs a German ARM unit with 6 movement points (2 MP for the first hex, and 4 MP for the overrunned hex) adjacent to the Dutch Border. Just add this to my list of conditions for this setup to be used.

Good Suggestion, Will add it! [:)]

[peskpesk]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

*NEI Defence C

This setup is particulary clever IMO, because a lot of Japanese players prefer to simply invade freely on the Oil fields of the NEI, securing the capital city later, to immediately have this oil to reorg just at the end of their onslaught all around invasion turn.
The Swamp and the city makes Palembang a particulary difficult spot to invade.

We also need to take into consideration if the optional rule for Territorials is NOT being used.

Yes, all AI setup script will have checks for optional rules.

[bredsjomagnus]

[/quote]It depends on whether supply can be traced across the Zuiderzee to the North Sea through CW CP in this version of WIF? If supply is guaranteed then overrun will be very difficult at all but breakthrough moevement to Amsterdam will be more or less automatic. [quote]
 
If you get a breakthrough you only get one hex away from Amsterdam anyway. And CW can bring in reinforcement.

[peskpesk]

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

*NEI Defence C

What about setting up a unit in Borneo?

Yes, it’s an option. But it’s harder to keep in supply. Units in Sumatra and Java have the chance of supply from the “backdoor” East Indian Ocean. To see a CP survive in South China Sea is not so likely. Of curse the Japanese still need to ground strike the unit…

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: hjaco

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

*NEI Defence C

What about setting up a unit in Borneo?

Or putting both units into Batavia - if that falls NEI falls [;)]

Remember that you get to set up a reserve unit in Batavia.

-Orm

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
This is real dangerous since the Germans have good tactical air to disorganize the non-elite Dutch unit. Simple flanking moves will let them put it out of supply and then overrunning the OOS, disorganized unit can be done by a single armor unit. The result is that Germany can walk into both Amsterdam and Rotterdam.

Overruning this Dutch units under rain needs a German ARM unit with 6 movement points (2 MP for the first hex, and 4 MP for the overrunned hex) adjacent to the Dutch Border. Just add this to my list of conditions for this setup to be used.

You still need to look for other units that can advance into Amsterdam/Rotterdam after the overrun.

-Orm

[peskpesk]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
This is real dangerous since the Germans have good tactical air to disorganize the non-elite Dutch unit. Simple flanking moves will let them put it out of supply and then overrunning the OOS, disorganized unit can be done by a single armor unit. The result is that Germany can walk into both Amsterdam and Rotterdam.

Overruning this Dutch units under rain needs a German ARM unit with 6 movement points (2 MP for the first hex, and 4 MP for the overrunned hex) adjacent to the Dutch Border. Just add this to my list of conditions for this setup to be used.

You still need to look for other units that can advance into Amsterdam/Rotterdam after the overrun.

-Orm

Nice one! I will add it.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

Netherlands setup AI

When a setup is used

* The Border defence
Is consider to be used when A, B, C, D, E AND F

A) No Threat of paradrop on Rotterdam
B) No Threat of invasion on Rotterdam
C) No Threat of having the land unit overrun
D) War with GE/IT
E) Chance of intervention from controlling power
F) No Threat of enemy land units in Belgium


* NEI defence
Is consider to be used when, A or B

A) No Chance of intervention in Netherlands from controlling power AND
game turn not Sep/Oct 1939 AND not Mar/Apr 1940 AND not May/Jun 1940
B) War with JP

* The Capital defence
Is consider to be used when one of A or B OR When the AI wants
A) Threat of paradrop on Amsterdam
B) Threat of invasion on Amsterdam

--Extreme setup
* Rotterdam defence
Is consider to be used when all of A, B, C OR D, E and F

A) No Threat of a quick land advance to Amsterdam from the North east
B) War with GE/IT
C) No Threat of enemy land units in Belgium

D) No Threat of invasion on Amsterdam
E) No Threat of paradrop on Amsterdam
F) War with allies

If Germany declare war on Netherlands in a "normal" game the setup will most likely be on the Amsterdam if I got the part above right.

The border defence will rarely be used since the threat of getting the unit put out of supply and overrun is likely. The Rotterdam defence is not likely to be used either since an advance into Amsterdam from the north is likely (maybe it can be used in rain without the option for rail movement bonus). The NEI defence is often out since the chance of an allied intervention to Rotterdam is usually likely. Besides that there is 3 turns the NEI setup forbidden to be used.

And that leaves only the capital defence for a "normal" game as I read the setup suggestion.

-Orm

[hjaco]

ORIGINAL: Orm
Remember that you get to set up a reserve unit in Batavia.
-Orm

No you don't. All MIL are removed from the production spiral when a country is incomplete conquered.

If we are talking about a 39/40 attack on the Netherlands everything must go against Germany to help France. So in this case the INF should go into Europe. Sure, the NEI MIL could be build in this case.

The other plausible scenario is a neutral Netherland in 41' which Germany and Japan declares war on simultaneously. The INF will surely go to NEI in this case but the same scenario applies. All MIL are removed when the Netherlands are conquered.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: hjaco

ORIGINAL: Orm
Remember that you get to set up a reserve unit in Batavia.
-Orm

No you don't. All MIL are removed from the production spiral when a country is incomplete conquered.

If we are talking about a 39/40 attack on the Netherlands everything must go against Germany to help France. So in this case the INF should go into Europe. Sure, the NEI MIL could be build in this case.

The other plausible scenario is a neutral Netherland in 41' which Germany and Japan declares war on simultaneously. The INF will surely go to NEI in this case but the same scenario applies. All MIL are removed when the Netherlands are conquered.

From raw

19.13 MIL units
All MIL that arrive in cities in an aligned minor country are units of that minor county.

So according to RAW the Batavia MIL is NOT a Ne unit but a NEI unit and is therefore not removed.

-Orm

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: hjaco

ORIGINAL: Orm
Remember that you get to set up a reserve unit in Batavia.
-Orm

No you don't. All MIL are removed from the production spiral when a country is incomplete conquered.

If we are talking about a 39/40 attack on the Netherlands everything must go against Germany to help France. So in this case the INF should go into Europe. Sure, the NEI MIL could be build in this case.

The other plausible scenario is a neutral Netherland in 41' which Germany and Japan declares war on simultaneously. The INF will surely go to NEI in this case but the same scenario applies. All MIL are removed when the Netherlands are conquered.

From raw

19.13 MIL units
All MIL that arrive in cities in an aligned minor country are units of that minor county.

So according to RAW the Batavia MIL is NOT a Ne unit but a NEI unit and is therefore not removed.

-Orm

This is what I was about to write.
This is the Netherlands that are conquered, not the NEI.

[Neilster]

Afsluitdijk? I punched a dude repeatedly in the head for calling my teenage sister that. Although we were in Holland at the time...and on reflection he was probably just asking for directions [:'(]

Oh well...a lesson learned and no harm done. Well, apart from to him obviously. Only kidding. I wouldn't punch a dude for that. She's a total Afsluitdijk [:D].

Cheers, Neilster

[hjaco]

ORIGINAL: Orm
From raw

19.13 MIL units
All MIL that arrive in cities in an aligned minor country are units of that minor county.

So according to RAW the Batavia MIL is NOT a Ne unit but a NEI unit and is therefore not removed.
-Orm

So my Jap opponent pulled my leg in my last game [:@]

Well not the first rule that has been changed during the years.

Thanks for the correction Orm.

[composer99]

I would recommend that the Netherlands set up as many naval and air units as possible in Dutch Guyana (I believe some convoys are already being set up there) in the event of an Axis DoW. Also, I don't think the setups above will respect the requirement for 1/2 the Dutch land/air units to set up in the Netherlands with all that airforce in
 
My reasoning is that, in 1941-1942, if the Japanese are part of the DoW, any air units based in Telok Betong are almost certainly going to be overrun and destroyed, and whatever's left over will have to flee.
 
To overrun Telok Betong, all the Japanese have to do is land a division there during the surprise impulse since (a) Dutch/NEI units in Batavia exert no ZoC over the straits, and (b) the notional is -1 factor (i.e. 0 factors) when surprised.

[peskpesk]

ORIGINAL: composer99

I would recommend that the Netherlands set up as many naval and air units as possible in Dutch Guyana (I believe some convoys are already being set up there) in the event of an Axis DoW. Also, I don't think the setups above will respect the requirement for 1/2 the Dutch land/air units to set up in the Netherlands with all that airforce in

My reasoning is that, in 1941-1942, if the Japanese are part of the DoW, any air units based in Telok Betong are almost certainly going to be overrun and destroyed, and whatever's left over will have to flee.

To overrun Telok Betong, all the Japanese have to do is land a division there during the surprise impulse since (a) Dutch/NEI units in Batavia exert no ZoC over the straits, and (b) the notional is -1 factor (i.e. 0 factors) when surprised.

Thanks, I missed the straits zoc, so if we place the plane in Jokyakarta (for later rebase) it's safer.

Maybe I missed something, I thought land/air and naval units was included in "At least half a minor country’s initial units must set up in its home country"