PBEM skipping

[gwheelock]

I would also suggest that a new "major event" (such as a new DOW  upon a nation from someone)
would clear ALL of that player's "skip" flags.  If a player REALLY wants to skip phases under those circumstances
he can reset the flags on his next phase.

There may be other cases where you would want to autoclear the flags as well
(missing an economic loss roll? Other Suggestions?)

[Jimmer]

And, actually, along with Gwheelock's suggestion, how about a table of "possible events" that might cause one to change ones mind? For example, list
 
I get declared war upon
I declare war upon someone else (due to having the value checked in my diplomacy settings)
etc.

[MarshallEllis]

These are also good points! I do not know if I have the space for an entire list but I can see that new DOWs on me or from me should disable all skip settings.

[Jimmer]

Right. There may be more, but those are the two that were most obvious. We'll probably find others as people start actually using the new capability.

[Dancing Bear]

If you can't skip the land and eco phases, that leaves the diplomacy, reinforcement and naval phases. I can see diplomacy and naval phases being straight forward (the diplomacy options could be set during the previous phase, (except DOW's), and naval is likely the easiest of the lot).
 
But what will happen to reinforcements that are due in a month that is skipped, will they be carried forward to the next turn?

[MarshallEllis]

Perhaps if reinforcements are due then I will disable the skip setting otherwise they would "expire"
 

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Perhaps if reinforcements are due then I will disable the skip setting otherwise they would "expire"

That's a good idea. Just grey out the box.

Also, though, you will need to skip the skip if you have implemented any sort of ongoing skips.

[MarshallEllis]

That's actually what I meant. At an end turn point, I will review reinforcement skips and forces that are coming up then disable accordingly. This would cover the "skip until stopped" settings as well.
 

[Dancing Bear]

I guess this has the advantage of also covering reinforcements you get when you gain control of a minor during the diplomacy phase. I would have prefered to carry forward reinforcements because this helps more with the game speed, but can live with the auto disable reinforcements if a player has reinforcements due. Maybe this could idea can be looked at again in the future.
 
On a related note, Marshall you mentioned inplementing the skipping relatively quickly (or at least perhaps for version 1.05), but i don't recall what was said about the timing for assigning a backup or auxiliary player to cover turns when someone was away.

[MarshallEllis]

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

I guess this has the advantage of also covering reinforcements you get when you gain control of a minor during the diplomacy phase. I would have prefered to carry forward reinforcements because this helps more with the game speed, but can live with the auto disable reinforcements if a player has reinforcements due. Maybe this could idea can be looked at again in the future.

On a related note, Marshall you mentioned inplementing the skipping relatively quickly (or at least perhaps for version 1.05), but i don't recall what was said about the timing for assigning a backup or auxiliary player to cover turns when someone was away.

I haven't tackled the aux player issue yet. I would like to implement the skipping features with the editor then perhaps look at the aux player settings.

[Dancing Bear]

[/quote]

I haven't tackled the aux player issue yet. I would like to implement the skipping features with the editor then perhaps look at the aux player settings.

[/quote]

Hi Marshall
It occurred to me that with the new file name system, it may not be necessary to implement the aux player thing anymore. It looks like if Player A was going away on vacation, then it would be easy enough for Player A to simply email his save files to Player B, who should be able to load Player A's file and play the turn, returning the file to Player A, when that player gets back from vacation, etc.
If the above is correct, you might drop the aux player settings down/off the to do list. I think that after the phase skipping that is proposed for 1.05, the next best ways to speed up the PBEM game are a) some way to skip the land phase via an autofirage option (mostly for periods of peace, often winter), and b) the simultaneous diplomacy-econo phases. This would be moderate leap forward in game speed.
And I think that it about as far as you could take it without the major programming changes discussed previously. Anyone else have any ideas?

[Dancing Bear]

I guess the one thing that I might have missed, was to no longer exchange battle files for garrison/seige battles.

[MarshallEllis]

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

I haven't tackled the aux player issue yet. I would like to implement the skipping features with the editor then perhaps look at the aux player settings.

[/quote]

Hi Marshall
It occurred to me that with the new file name system, it may not be necessary to implement the aux player thing anymore. It looks like if Player A was going away on vacation, then it would be easy enough for Player A to simply email his save files to Player B, who should be able to load Player A's file and play the turn, returning the file to Player A, when that player gets back from vacation, etc.
If the above is correct, you might drop the aux player settings down/off the to do list. I think that after the phase skipping that is proposed for 1.05, the next best ways to speed up the PBEM game are a) some way to skip the land phase via an autofirage option (mostly for periods of peace, often winter), and b) the simultaneous diplomacy-econo phases. This would be moderate leap forward in game speed.
And I think that it about as far as you could take it without the major programming changes discussed previously. Anyone else have any ideas?
[/quote]

This is a VERY good point! I really appreciate the think-through on this one Dancing Bear!

[Dancing Bear]

Maybe, once the skipping thing is introduced, Matrix can introduce a forum for hints for speeding up PBEM, something on the same level as the "opponents wanted" and "tech support".

[MarshallEllis]

That is not a bad idea either.
I'm still wondering about the simul-run diplomacy/eco phases and IF they will help because I am in several games now and STILL the main delay is us humans. EVEN if we could all execute diplomacy at the same time BUT there was one on vacation, traveling, etc. then diplomacy resolution would have to wait!
 
NOW, on the other hand, if that player were to set his diplomacy phase to skip then you're talking some real time savings. 

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

That is not a bad idea either.
I'm still wondering about the simul-run diplomacy/eco phases and IF they will help because I am in several games now and STILL the main delay is us humans. EVEN if we could all execute diplomacy at the same time BUT there was one on vacation, traveling, etc. then diplomacy resolution would have to wait!

NOW, on the other hand, if that player were to set his diplomacy phase to skip then you're talking some real time savings. 

The simultaneous phase issue partially corrects for the human-induced delay. Instead of pausing 7 times per phase, once for each human (and however long each one takes), the game would pause once, for the length of the human who takes the longest amount of time to do the phase.

For example, let's say we have 7 players who do their diplo phase in 11, 2, 20, 8, 3, 24, and 7 hours, respectively. In the game today, that would take 75 total hours, or a little over 3 days.

With a simultaneous diplo phase, it would take 24 hours, or 1 day.

The biggest value, I think, that the simultaneity offers is that the house rule of "24 hours to take a turn" would now be actually meaningful. As it sits, it can conceivably take a whole week to do one phase, even if the host religiously skips the turn for anybody who goes over 24 hours. With simultaneous turns, 24 hours is 24 hours. Period, end of discussion.

[Jimmer]

Setting the value to skip only applies if it is executed. So, in my example above, let's say the guys taking 20, 3, and 7 hours all skip the phase. Without simultaneous turns, it would take 45 hours to get through the phase. With it, it would take 24 (still the longest time).
 
So, I think there's value in both skipping phases code and in simultaneous phase code. Perhaps not ENOUGH value, but that's a decision I can't help with unless I know how much effort is expected to do the simultaneous thing.

[Jimmer]

By the way, the diplomacy phase is almost already set up for simultaneous execution, if my guess is correct. You already have to wait until the end (of the phase, probably on Spain's turn) to execute the various diplomacy orders, since they can interact with each other. So, diplomacy simultaneity is probably easier to set up than economics. Economics requires either that GB goes first (to establish trade partners allowed) or that the trade partners fields are "locked" prior to the econ phase. Neither of those is presently occurring, as near as I can tell, so that would be a prerequisite. I can't think of any prerequisites for the diplomacy phase.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

That is not a bad idea either.
I'm still wondering about the simul-run diplomacy/eco phases and IF they will help because I am in several games now and STILL the main delay is us humans. EVEN if we could all execute diplomacy at the same time BUT there was one on vacation, traveling, etc. then diplomacy resolution would have to wait!

NOW, on the other hand, if that player were to set his diplomacy phase to skip then you're talking some real time savings. 

Once again you are wrong. Simul would save tons of time.

[MarshallEllis]

Sorry, Neverman, I must strongly disagree with your guess (AND it would ONLY be a guess) at this point. I cannot tell you that you are wrong simply because it's not there yet BUT I've played too many PBEM games, all of which suffer pace problems due to people being out of town, sick, etc. and simul execution would not have saved a minute in ANY of my games over the past years.