Why do pzIIIe exist?

[planner 3]

Five_of_swords....why don't you just download the Enhanced version and check the OOBs, you may be surprised. Just a thought.   FWIW Dept 88ys77.9c

[vahauser]

ORIGINAL: Five_of_Swords

Although i dont change the units in the oob, i assume some balancing work was done, I do notice they simply are not historically accurate. The pzIII was faster than the t-34, and much smaller. The pz IIIh and up never had the penetration power of stug ausf A which was killing heavy tanks all the way up to 1967 (yes, by nations which confiscated them and used them in their own army after the war). The flame tanks were much more heavily armored. (and this was for obvious reasons, i dont understand why that would imbalance the game, either). and there are countless other differences im sure, these are just the offhand things i happen to know about.

Everything you mention in your quote above is why nobody I know will play with your customized OOBs (besides the fact that you are using an old version of the game that pretty much nobody else uses these days). Why not? Because I don't know anybody who agrees with what you typed in your quote.

The unit data and the OOBs have been checked and double-checked and argued and debated and picked apart for years in SPWaW with regards to historical accuracy. There are aspects of the OOBs and game mechanics that I disagree with (mostly in terms of game-play issues), but I don't have very many complaints regarding the historical research that went into it (my complaints mainly stem from the actual implementations/conclusions of the research and not the accuracy of the research itself).

Regarding unit data, the SPWaW historical research is very strong (being the result of years and thousands of hours of data input from researchers/contributors from all around the world). You would have to show some extremely strong evidence to support the claims you made in your quote above to get most anybody on this forum to take you seriously.

As of today, my impression of what you are posting is something like, "Here is yet another enthusiastic newbie who is letting his enthusiasm get carried away talking about stuff in SPWaW without having an understanding of how SPWaW actually works, and without a real appreciation of how everything he is discussing has already been debated and argued and researched for years."

[Alby]

one thing to remember when questioning the historical accuray of 'everything' in this game.
Certain things have to work a certain way, because thats the way the game code handles things.
[;)]

[Five_of_Swords]

Well I got the enhanced version and I do like it more. I wish i could have my ft only engineer platoon :) but im just doing without. One thing i noticed is they changed quite a lot of unit stats. Thats interesting. Stugs are now the same 'size' as t 34s. Thats interesting. If these things have been debated a lot about the oob, I dont consider that to increase its odds of being correct. Thats just my weird opinion. Anyway, im not going to have a debate here. Im sure that whoever made spwaw is far more informed on the subject than I am. And i dont care. Its a game. I like the new oob and I dont ever use stugs anymore cause they are useless. The 'new' sp 88 guns are hilariously good at dealing with heavy tanks to tide germany over until it gets the pzIIIg monster.
I didnt know it was so taboo to question the validity of spwaw as a source for the effectiveness of various WWII AFV. It was an honest mistake and will never happen again. Drat, someone already thinks im 'enthusiastic'

It probably something more like this: flame tanks proved to be rather ineffective. But its not because they didnt have very heavy armor. Perhaps the reason they were not effective is difficult to model in the game. If you give them more armour, maybe they will be too effective in the game. I dont know. Ill just assume balancing work was done.

Optimally, a well designed game should have a case where every unit is the best choice for some exact particular plan, imo. But this is not possible. Especially with the massive numbers of units availible in this game. It is, as best, always a work in progress, and benefits greatly from feedback of people who are actually playing the game.
The PZIII and indeed, the stugs, were the real heart of the german army for most of the war. If either are actually useless in the game I think it should be fixed somehow.

[planner 3]

Five......You may enjoy a little program by KAI called MR OOB. A search of this forum will get you to it. It allows you to change OOBs and I also believe you can set up your own units. HTH[8D]