Best ancient time battle wargame?

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Sorry, guys.. but I think there's an awful lot of nostalgia going on here.

Totally agree - the Great Battles I remember looked great for their time but had an AI that just stood still and died!

I have the HPS Gallic title and didn't get any gameplay underway. As soon as I saw the graphics I uninstalled! But to its credit the series seems to have its ardent followers. Imho, the graphics stink.

To the OP, I'd go Matrix/Kois's Tin Soldiers right now.

[killroyishere]

I have the HPS Gallic title and didn't get any gameplay underway. As soon as I saw the graphics I uninstalled! But to its credit the series seems to have its ardent followers. Imho, the graphics stink.

 
If you stopped or didn't play a game because the graphics sucked you are missing out on some of the best computer wargames of all tmie. Graphics are meaningless to me as I enjoy playing with rectangles from the old SSI series of Civil War games Gettysburg and Antietam, Sons of Liberty, and Battles of Napoleon and many many more from the 80's and early 90's. Graphics are overrated and really don't add enough to the games to even warrant the cost they are adding to games nowadays and/or the time they add just to get one game out. Look how long games today take to produce and back in the good old days they could release new games every 2-6 months. I guess you missed out on the X-Com and Master of Magic and Master of Orion series as well since they too have simple 8bit graphics. Wasteland and all those wonderful rpg games of yesterday. It's just hard to fathom a true wargamer or strategy gamer that puts graphics ahead of gameplay.

[mikul82]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

http://www.europabarbarorum.com/

I love EB as well, but can't bring myself to call RTW an "ancient time wargame" in any fasioN [;)]

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

If you stopped or didn't play a game because the graphics sucked you are missing out on some of the best computer wargames of all tmie.

I appreciate the tip re the HPS Ancients titles and will give it another look.

Re graphics, I don't buy a book by its cover but when I open it after checking that its blurb will likely offer what I need, as soon as I see a typo early on, I get soured. The second typo makes me put the book away. Just not enough attention to care makes me wonder if the attention to details are the same.

So when it came to Gallic Wars, as soon as I found buildings that hid units from view etc., and an interface that just wasn't inuitive, I put it away. Once again, I did not have the time to wrestle with a designer's programming - I'd rather wrestle with winning a scenario.

But like I said, I have heard great things about these HPS ancients titles. Stacked up against Tin Soldiers, the latter is just much more playable out of the box. It's a shame Koios abandoned the Tin Soldiers series. They had a monopoly that they could have refined for some great sales.

[Brigz]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Sorry, guys.. but I think there's an awful lot of nostalgia going on here. I HAVE the Great Battles series and, frankly, both Tin Soldiers and the HPS games (for different reasons, although both have much better AI) are vastly superior. Have you actually played them? Not to mention that Alex in particular was a pig to get to run on XP, let alone Vista.

Not at all. I have all the Great Battles Games and both Tin Soldiers and both Punic Wars and Gallic Wars. Yes, of course, Tin Soldiers and Punic/Gallic wars are superior wargames, no question. But I still have lots of fun occasionally playing Great Battles scenarios. It's a fun game. I don't get rid of games I like just because something new comes along. What I was saying was, that of the three publishers titles, I'd get more gameplay out of Great Battles than the other offerings. There are literally hundreds of scenarios available.

FWIW, I don't remember having any difficulty getting all three Great Battles games to run on XP. I believe the link I provided in an earlier post has that info somewhere.

[killroyishere]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Centurion:Defender of Rome since it is one of the hardest and probably first turn based and real time ancient wargames of its kind. This truely is your origional Total War game. I don't think any other ancient game entertained me and frustrated me to no end at the same time like CDoR did. Normal difficulty was hard and if you can beat it on higher difficulties my hat off to you. I sucked at the chariot races, while loving them at the same time. Almost every match I would get thrown off trying to round a turn too fast and one of the most hilarious parts of it was if you fell off or got knocked out stretcher bearers would run out to get you but sometimes they would toss you from one side to the other missing getting you on the stretcher and they'd run off and leave you still laying face down in the dirt. Then there was animated gladiator battles and those I could win. Very simple easy to use battle functions much like the ones used in Sid Meiers Pirates. Course Adam Parker probably won't like this one either as the graphics are appauling compared to most of todays graphics. But, this is one of those classic rellics that is still as good today as it was yesterday. Even the diplomacy feature in the game is much much better than the TW series.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: killroyishere
Course Adam Parker probably won't like this one either as the graphics are appauling compared to most of todays graphics.

Don't get me wrong. Graphics and graphical AI's to me, need to be useful and inuitive. Eye candy without these is worthless.

Give me Cv 2 over Civ 4 any day. Pong over EA Sports. Railroad Tycoon 2 over Sid Meier's Rairoads.

Similarly I see no need to retrograde where a game's graphics have once set a benchmark. Eg: Going from Shogun Total War to Slitherine's Spartan.

Benchmarking, intuitiveness and user-friendliness are what measure my PC gaming.

Give me what I perceive to be grainy art, unnecessarilty pixelated art, inablility to view units by graphics, clickfests etc., (my first impression of the HPS Ancients titles) and I'll get easily turned off. And I'm the guy who owns multiple copies of the Commands and Colors: Ancients franchise and many other ancients boardgames ie: I love the era.

[mllange]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Give me what I perceive to be grainy art, unnecessarilty pixelated art, inablility to view units by graphics, clickfests etc., (my first impression of the HPS Ancients titles) and I'll get easily turned off. And I'm the guy who owns multiple copies of the Commands and Colors: Ancients franchise and many other ancients boardgames ie: I love the era.

I'll be among those who agree with you about the graphics (and user interface) of the HPS series. I support the HPS effort, but seriously hope they will continue to work on improvements to the engine and the experience. Playing Punic Wars is kind of like walking through a peat bog in stormy weather to enjoy a nice warm bowl of homemade chicken soup by the fire, it's worth it in the end but the journey could be so much better. A campaign would be nice as well!

[Brigz]

ORIGINAL: nim8or

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Give me what I perceive to be grainy art, unnecessarilty pixelated art, inablility to view units by graphics, clickfests etc., (my first impression of the HPS Ancients titles) and I'll get easily turned off. And I'm the guy who owns multiple copies of the Commands and Colors: Ancients franchise and many other ancients boardgames ie: I love the era.

I'll be among those who agree with you about the graphics (and user interface) of the HPS series. I support the HPS effort, but seriously hope they will continue to work on improvements to the engine and the experience. Playing Punic Wars is kind of like walking through a peat bog in stormy weather to enjoy a nice warm bowl of homemade chicken soup by the fire, it's worth it in the end but the journey could be so much better. A campaign would be nice as well!

I agree with Adam about the graphics in the HPS ancient series games. They are bad. But I'm glad I own them. They are great games....I just really don't enjoy playing them. And I don't know why... they are certainly interesting games.

@ nim8or,
You have more patience than I.[;)]

[mllange]

@Dave
I'm not all that patient, I just love the time period and the romance, for lack of a better word, of mano e mano warefare, up close and personal, where some soldier isn't sitting in Colorado pushing buttons and manipulating an unmanned remote to bomb villages across the globe without a hint of remorse or loss of sleep. That said, I still enjoy the Great Battles Collector's Edition games a great deal more than HPS. Call me nostalgic, call me old fashioned and out of date, call me crazy, that's just the way it is. For anyone interested the series, this link is an essential. You will find tech support, strategy tips, additional scenarios and more. Hopefully the games will enjoy an extended lifespan well into the future.

Now how 'bout resurrecting Tin Soldiers for another title while we're at it?

[mgarnett]

Hi,
 
I have the Tin Soldiers and HPS games.  Both series are great.  I agree with you about the graphics in the HPS games but I seem to have overcome it by playing the games in 2D mode.  For some reasons the games seem easier to play and look fine when played that way.  I don't really like the 3D mode, things seem just too hard to see.  Gallic Wars and Punic Wars really are great games.
 
Cheers
 
Mark

[canuckgamer]

I recently re-installed two of my Great Battles games, Hannibal and Caesar. I couldn't get Alexander installed, a message came up saying I needed Windows 95. I am running XP. I dug up these two games because I was disappointed with Punic Wars such that I didn't bother buying Gallic Wars. In Punic Wars, it takes forever to come in to contact and just isn't fun to play. My buddy and I tried two games of it by PBEM. Punic Wars doesn't even have any animation for movement or combat like Hannibal and Caesar. I haven't tried out Tin Soldiers JC yet but I'm considering it. I would love to see Matrix update the Great Battles Series like they have with a number of other older titles.

[Brigz]

ORIGINAL: McHugh

I recently re-installed two of my Great Battles games, Hannibal and Caesar. I couldn't get Alexander installed, a message came up saying I needed Windows 95. I am running XP.

Go to this site and you should find the information you need to get Alexander to run on XP.
http://www.ianm1.plus.com/index.html

Under the "Having Problems" heading, click on the "Operating Systems Compatability" link.

[Titanwarrior89]

Guys bringing up ancients again. I need your feed back. What is your impression of Commands and Colors: Ancients series? looks like it could be to simple.

ORIGINAL: nim8or

There's always the Vassal version of Commands & Colors: Ancients (now 4 expansions!) if you want online multiplayer only.

[Hertston]

Check out the PC release of Field of Glory (Slitherene), currently in beta.  Looks a tad smarter than the HPS games (which are otherwise excellent, I agree).

[Titanwarrior89]

Hmmmm thats looks interesting. I'll check it out.

[Anguille]

RTS:
Age of Alexander (sequel to Ancients Wars: Ancients Wars) should be ok. (Worldforge)
Celtic Kings: The Punic Wars (aka Nemesis of the Roman Empire) (Haemimont Games)
Legion Arena: Gold Edition...imho still a good game on Roman battles (has to be played on hard or very hard, normal is too easy) (Slitherine)


TBS:

Strength & Honor 2 will be released shortly and covers the Ancient World from China to Spain...solid engine (Magitech)
Sparta & Gates of Troy (Slitherine)



Great Battles are great too (can't get them to run though). Field of Glory by Slitherine might be fun.

[a7v]

For me its ROME Total War also. There are excellent mods like Europa Barbaorum, Roma Surrectum and RTR. I agree that it is quite easy to win, but for me its more important that the game still is fun to play.
The later games of the series....[8|]
 
Rainer

[killroyishere]

If Field of Glory has an ai it will definitely be a buy for me. On the other hand I don't see how anyone can say RTW is the BEST ancient time battle wargame. Just makes me want to laugh and laugh and laugh. For me it's the worst ancient time battle wargame. hell Centurion Defender of Rome an old dos game is better than RTW. RTW is right down there with dressup barbie or elmo goes to potty training school and fails. [:D]

[jackx]

It's a decent game, and has some great mods, it's just not a wargame at all. That said, how do you do a serious ancient wargame? For battles, I can kinda see it working out, but for anything beyond that, you're pretty much off into conjecture-land as far as I can tell...