Finland not part of Sweden in 1.05?

[ndrose]

I just downloaded the official 1.05.03 (was at 1.04.07 before), and am seeing this, in new games started in 1.05. I'll try to watch more carefully what's happening with the manipulation that might be related....

[ndrose]

Started game as France, manipulated Denmark and Naples. Turkey manipulated Finland (should not be doing that if it's part of Sweden). Russia DoWed Sweden, France gained control. Finland was part, and I could place factors.

BUT Denmark and Naples, which were now France-influenced, had lost their secondary districts. This was without any DoWs on them, and nobody else had tried to manipulate them or their secondaries, so the bug was a direct result of gaining influence. (I have to check, but I *think* in another game it didn't happen when I manipulated unsuccessfully.)

[Marshall Ellis]

It has simply gone away on my machine???
 

[ndrose]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

It has simply gone away on my machine???

That's weird. It seems to be consistent for me. I never saw it before 1.05, but now anytime I manipulate a two-district minor, and gain influence, the secondary district goes independent.

[ndrose]

N.B. manipulation must be successful. Just the attempt doesn't do it. I presume it is also happening when the AI successfully manipulates, but haven't confirmed that yet.

[ndrose]

Have now confirmed that AI influence also separates secondary district.

Marshall, this seems like a moderately serious bug. Any chance of a patch on 1.05 so those of us playing only with official patches don't have to wait until 1.06 is finished?

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: ndrose
That's weird. It seems to be consistent for me. I never saw it before 1.05, but now anytime I manipulate a two-district minor, and gain influence, the secondary district goes independent.

This fits with my observations as well: I only saw it when I manipulated. It didn't matter if I was playing GB or France: They lost the secondary district.

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: ndrose

Have now confirmed that AI influence also separates secondary district.

Marshall, this seems like a moderately serious bug. Any chance of a patch on 1.05 so those of us playing only with official patches don't have to wait until 1.06 is finished?

Actually, I would call it a show-stopper. The three two-district minors are a major part of the early game.

However, it shouldn't stop existing games that have already passed that stage.

But, I agree: This should be fixed ASAP. Unfortunately, Marshall can no longer reproduce it, so that's going to make it hard.

Marshall, can we get a "debug version" that might trap more data for you, since you can't dupe it?

[Marshall Ellis]

All of the testers have a debug 1.06 release so I'll ask them to try and dupe this...
 

[Jimmer]

Sounds great!

[Bearcat2]

I have had Denmark, Sweden and Naples as Ally, when war declared on me, I get them without their 2nd country-Finland, Norway, Sicily; However, if a major power declares war on Sweden/Denmark/Naples and I get control, I get both parts.

[ndrose]

ORIGINAL: Termite2

I have had Denmark, Sweden and Naples as Ally, when war declared on me, I get them without their 2nd country-Finland, Norway, Sicily; However, if a major power declares war on Sweden/Denmark/Naples and I get control, I get both parts.

I think if you look closely you'll see that in the first set of cases, they actually were already separate before the DoW. They separate as soon as a major power gets influence by diplomacy.

[Ted1066]

This looks like its an issue that points to two-province minor nations. I'm playing a new game (the same one I found the foraging bug in) and I'm attaching 2 screenshots showing how the comp isn't treating 2 province minors correctly.

This SS shows how France DoW'd Naples for -1PP (which in a small way is good), but Sicily wasn't included in the DoW.

More in next post.

[Ted1066]

This SS shows Russia manipulating Norway, something that shouldn't be occurring. France has Denmark as an Ally, while Russia has Norway as Influenced.

I'd like to note that playing lots in the previous version, I never once saw this occur.

[Ted1066]

Lastly, here is the savegame for Marshall to look at. Its in the Eco phase after a bunch of stuff has gone down, but hopefully there's enough info to track down what's going wrong.

Cheers,

Ted

[ndrose]

ORIGINAL: Ted1066

This SS shows Russia manipulating Norway, something that shouldn't be occurring. France has Denmark as an Ally, while Russia has Norway as Influenced.

I'd like to note that playing lots in the previous version, I never once saw this occur.

I would bet that the savefile will show that nobody tried to manipulate Norway until *after* Denamrk became France-influenced (which must have happened sometimes before it became France-allied). It's the influence that triggers the separation. Then you've got Denmark (France-influenced) and Norway (neutral)--at which point it's entirely normal and rational for other countries to try to influence Norway. The problem's in the initial separation.

[Marshall Ellis]

I think I have isolated this to the point where an AI MP is trying to manipulate the secondary district independently of its owner (i.e. someone trying to manipulate Finland). This is illegal and will be fixed. I am loading, trying, loading trying, etc and it seems to be OK but I will play with it a bit more to try and break.
 
 

[ndrose]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

I think I have isolated this to the point where an AI MP is trying to manipulate the secondary district independently of its owner (i.e. someone trying to manipulate Finland). This is illegal and will be fixed. I am loading, trying, loading trying, etc and it seems to be OK but I will play with it a bit more to try and break.

This may be one cause but I'm pretty sure it's not the only one. I can create this bug consistently by manipulating the primary district. (It should have the effect of manipulating the country as a whole, but as soon as I gain influence on the primary, the secondary goes neutral.)

[ndrose]

I tried another test with this. Started a new game as France, manipulated some two-district minors. I was successful in Naples, and Sicily immediately separated. (Where I was not successful, nothing happened.)

I checked the log, and there was no record of anyone even trying to manipulate Sicily separately. So it is at least possible for this to happen solely through the manipulation of the primary district.

If I try to manipulate a secondary district as a human player, the game won't let me (as is correct). Perhaps it is letting the AI do it, and this is a second cause of the bug; but are you sure the AI manipulations of secondary districts didn't occur *after* they had already been separated by influence on the primary?

[Marshall Ellis]

The AI was constantly attempting to manip Finland since it (Tu) saw Finland as strategic to Russia (Tu's mortal enemy).
Hmmmm? I will try the manip as a human to see if they separate...