Patch question

[berndn]

Thanks guys for discussing it here as well. I'm sure that not all are registered at the linked site or some may have the same problems I have (I can login in but have no access to the forums anymore. Browsers tried: Opera & Firefox). So please accept my apologies for creating this thread here.
Another reason why I prefer to discuss it here is that Matrix gives us support here and I feel it belongs to this. I know that Andrew visits the linked site too but find it better to discuss things which may need to be addressed at the publishers forum

[Korzun]

Well, I can live with the current situation. In order to attack the hidden tank it has to be spotted, right? So, if the panther commander knows that there is a tank why not put one through the first window? A Panther Tank could engage enemy tanks at distances beyond 1km which is a very small target in relation to a factory window at a 20m distance. The question is whether the Panther can spot this tanks by itself through a dark factory and a peephole. This I would say is rather unrealistic. But if it is spotted by infantry...What do you guys think?

[TheReal_Pak40]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

Our factory walls are flimsy ... Think of a warehouse in this instance

If they are required to be more than flimsy they are stone or brick.

i think Tin sheet might be the closest match along the lines of a nissen hut.

Be realistic Andrew, this kind of building did not exist in 1944 Europe. Certainly not in rural Belgium. Pressed tin buildings were rare at best even in the U.S. at this time.

My main point is that you only have one designation for "factory wall". So, assuming that all factories that are present in the WaR maps use the "factory wall" coding, then they all have "flimsy" walls and can be seen through in such a manner. This, I think, is completely misleading. When I think of a factory in 1944 Europe, I think of Brick buildings with smoke stacks etc. Even warehouses would have been made of wood at the very least and should be coded as such.

[Andrew Williams]

I just used those pics as an example of the type of protection given by the walls s opposed to brick or heavy stone.

It doesn't have to be pressed steel, just something flimsy that affords little or no protection... and that is what those walls are coded as.

I don't believe there are a lot of them sprinkled amongst the 64 maps, but there would be a few.... there are a lot of wooden, brick and stone buildings.

[TheReal_Pak40]

OK, that's a better explanation. However, I personally checked that particular building on the Stavelot Map and the green line seems to go through wall, not window. The picture above is 95% window and if one were modeling as such then I would expect to see mostly "factory window" instead of "factory wall". Plus, the building graphic itself has small windows and tends to have thicker walls than the stone buildings that are near to it. Both of these tend to give the player the impression of a hardy building, not a flimsy glass frame as pictured above.

[squadleader_id]

Unless all factories in Belgium were built with "green house glass walls"...then I suggest that the you guys re-examine and fix anomalies in the elements file (drive:\Matrix Games\Close Combat Wacht am Rhein\Data\Base\elements.txt). See my post above for details of the elements data glitch.
Even greenhouse glass walls should not be more see through than open windows [;)]

[Andrew Williams]

Had time to have a long look at that map.

I've found an error in the factory wall element (used very rarely in WaR)... thank you stalky for helping here.

Also errors in the way that map has been coded.

I'm working on a fix.

I'm quite happy keeping the Factory wall element as a flimsy element... we have more heavier duty elements that can be used when appropriate.

See the building a little further south of that "factory" and this factory is coded with stone walls.

Also the "Factory" in question is coded with Factory floor element allowing vehicles to traverse it... only problem if the AI sets up in there , there is no way out... I'm changing the coding of the floor so vehicles won't/can't set up in there.

Stay tuned... I might have to post this as an optional update for users.... until we can make a new patch worthwhile.

[squadleader_id]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

Had time to have a long look at that map.

I've found an error in the factory wall element... thank you stalky for helping here.

Also errors in the way that map has been coded.

I'm working on a fix.

Thanks for looking into this, Shrecken!

I'm quite happy keeping the Factory wall element as a flimsy element... we have more heavier duty elements that can be used when appropriate.

See the building a little further south of that "factory" and this factory is coded with stone walls.

Also the "Factory" in question is coded with Factory floor element allowing vehicles to traverse it... only problem if the AI sets up in there , there is no way out... I'm changing the coding of the floor so vehicles won't/can't set up in there.

I personally don't mind the flimsy factory walls...but don't forget re-check the "Hindrance" values in the elements file.

Stay tuned... I might have to post this as an optional update for users.... until we can make a new patch worthwhile.

Looking forward to the update!

[squadleader_id]

Looks like the value for "block LOS" (col AB) for Factory Window is also wrong in the CCWAR elements file...thanks for pointing this out in our little chat, Stalky!
It should be "1" like all the other window elements...not "0".
That's why the Stavelot factory ended up the ghostly see-thru building in the game

Here's the now not so ghostly Stavelot factory with fixed elements file:

[Andrew Williams]

For those asking why there is LOS on the inset picture.

Walls are coded so that they give LOS if you are immediately adjacent as in the inset pic.  This makes the assumtion that when you are right up against a wall you can make a peep hole or similar. 

If you are not immediately adjacent to the wall like in the larger pic, you do not get LOS.

[Platoon_Michael]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

Had time to have a long look at that map.

I've found an error in the factory wall element (used very rarely in WaR)... thank you stalky for helping here.

Also errors in the way that map has been coded.

I'm working on a fix.

I'm quite happy keeping the Factory wall element as a flimsy element... we have more heavier duty elements that can be used when appropriate.

See the building a little further south of that "factory" and this factory is coded with stone walls.

Also the "Factory" in question is coded with Factory floor element allowing vehicles to traverse it... only problem if the AI sets up in there , there is no way out... I'm changing the coding of the floor so vehicles won't/can't set up in there.

Stay tuned... I might have to post this as an optional update for users.... until we can make a new patch worthwhile.

Thanks for the time/help Andrew.
Any chance of maybe getting new.ovm's for WAR?
I now it probably sounds like another worthless favor,
If not I might be able to have them all done in a few months.Should anyone else like this view.
This is the ingame view.

[advo]

The patch should make so: " AT gun crews now less likely to engage non-vehicle targets when under a DEFEND order. "
Unfortunately after patch AT gun crews shoot on infantry under own initiative from significant distance (more than 100 meters). And it conducts to early detection ÀÒ guns.
P.S. A patch as a whole excellent

[Platoon_Michael]

For anyone who is interested I have 35 new .ovm's that display the trees on them.
I just need a place to upload it.
File is currently at 167MB zipped.

Edit:
Any idea on the eta for the new workbook for WAR?
thanks

[Andrew Williams]

Budget cuts... my PA is only on a 3 day week now.

[stolidog]

Just thought I would check and see what the status is on fixing the elements?

I have been playing the CC series as a whole for a long time. I generally like WaR, but I (along with two of my friends locally within my area) have totally stopped playing this game due to the faulty LOS's and gone back to playing modded CC5.

[berndn]

The LOS as well as the strange strat map connections are the reason that I don't play it anymore. Would be fine to receive an update on the situation.

[Txema]

Yes, Andrew, could you please give us an update?
 
Looking forward to those fixes !! [:D]
 
 
Txema

[Andrew Williams]

I'm spending all the time i can on it.

No timeline available though.

[Platoon_Michael]

For anyone interested I have completed putting all the trees on the .ovm's for WAR.
You can download them here.
http://www.closecombatseries.net/platoo ... R%20Files/

Besure to back up all files first just incase you dont like them.
Most maps look pretty good with them.

Edit:
Sorry,
I had a graphic mistake on the Assenios and Butgenbac files.
Reiploading now.
Heaven forbid I made any others but if you see any let me know and I'll fix it.

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: Platoon_Michael

For anyone interested I have completed putting all the trees on the .ovm's for WAR.
You can download them here.
http://www.closecombatseries.net/platoo ... R%20Files/

Besure to back up all files first just incase you dont like them.
Most maps look pretty good with them.

Edit:
Sorry,
I had a graphic mistake on the Assenios and Butgenbac files.
Reiploading now.
Heaven forbid I made any others but if you see any let me know and I'll fix it.

Just to clarify Michael, you say "putting all the trees" on them, but I get the impression from the image you posted that what you have done is to make heights more visible on the map?

Is that pretty much what you've done? Changed how the maps look so that heights are more clear without the numbers clicked?