Royal navy carriers?

[DuckofTindalos]

True, and we don't have a "likelihood-of-crashing-on-takeoff-or-landing" stat. Once they got into the air, they were great (until it came time to land again, that is).

My most interesting fight involving Royal Navy carriers was with the Formidable, off New Guinea. That's where her Seafires did so well, and where her armoured deck saved her from several dinky little IJN bombs.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

1.  Frankly, I keep Barracudas on the RN CVs.  Their torps work work better than Avenger torps, and the Barracuda torps have a bigger bang anyway.

2.  Seafire is pretty good.  When it's alternative is F4F and Martlet, the Seafire trumps (IMO).  It does have short legs.  You do need something to escort your strikes.  But to Terminus assertion of point defense, the Seafire is very good at it.

-F-

1. doesn´t the Avenger II drop British torps? I never had problems with the Avengers on the British carriers but also didn´t really look closely what torp they dropped.

2. I usually go for the Martlet before the Corsair just because of it´s range. When you use the British carriers then you should use them offensively because defensively you can´t do a lot with them, just not enough of them around, means also not enough fighters IMO. And if you want to use them on the offense, you sure need the four hexes range of the Martlet.

[Andy Mac]

I assume all this is PDU on because PDU off they are as they were historically more or less floating targets until late 43/44
 
Andy

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I assume all this is PDU on because PDU off they are as they were historically more or less floating targets until late 43/44

Andy

has been quite some time since I´ve played with PDU off but IIRC Corsairs always were a possibility, as were the Seafires.

[Andy Mac]

But not on all carriers and not in numbers and a lot of the Sqns are late to upgrade PDU off restricts the RN Carriers to their historic role
 
PDU on they are pretty much the number 1 gain the allies get from PDU ON.
 

[HMS Resolution]

ORIGINAL: Dili

"Don't forget that the RN also has the finest point defence fighter of the pre-43 war, the Seafire. It can eat Japan's aircraft for breakfast, lunch AND dinner."

What an exageration...and lets hope it has operational losses accordingly to its fragility.

Operational losses owing to fragility were more from a combination of inexperienced late-war aircrew and the fact that at Salerno, the escort carriers couldn't get enough wind over the flight deck for safe landings. In the same period, Victorious's Seafires landed something like fifty times without incident and suffered no operational losses.

[Droop21]

I play against the AI (so my life is easy). Once I have Seafires, I tend to use my RB CVs in mixed TF with US CV. (at least 2 CVBG). As long as I can keep them out of torp range, they are fairly invulnerable and full Seafire cap is very good at chewing IJN crews. After the first run, I tend to chase the depleted IJN CV with whatever carrier is still fast enough. This tactic helped an endangered PM more than once.

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

Last Saturday I had the privilege of seeing a Seafire XVII both on the ground and in the air at RNAS Yeovilton. Whilst it's always a pleasure to see a Spitfire variant in action, it was also hard to escape the conclusion that this was not the ideal naval fighter. Quite apart from Dili's observations on its fragility and low endurance, the Seafire also suffered from poor forward visibility, whilst its narrow track undercarriage accentuated the risk of it tipping on landing and digging a wingtip into the deck. On take-off, the power of the Griffon-engined variant (combined with the direction of the airscrew's rotation) was liable to generate a swing that would pitch the aircraft into the carrier island.

This is true. Same reason the Germans would have been poorly served by flying the Me-109T off the Graf Zeppelin.

[Feinder]

I don't think anyone here is really disputing the Seafire being less than suited for carrier ops in real life. I think (certainly myself included), that responses in this thread more pertain to the effectiveness of the Seafire in-game.

Either way, I posted this in the Hibiki thread a while back, after reading the episode in "Forgotten Fleet". I rather enjoyed it:

It's an analogy that probably has no relation whatsoever, except that it somehow seems fitting to share here.

During strikes of Japan with the combined Allied TF-38, late July, the British Pacific Fleet was on the extreme left of the huge armada luanching strikes and bombarding Japan (and under stipuation of their participation, were under the direct control of Halsey and Nimitz). The whole force was only about 100 miles off the coast. As the strikes went in, a large fog-bank began to form in the vicinity of the armada, and the wind changed and was now blowing from from the north.

Given that :
a. If the armada got trapped in the fog-bank, landing the strikes would be extremely hazardous, not only for the planes
not able to spot the CVs, but also the jeopardizing the maneuvering of the CVs during the landing operations.
b. Many of the CVs would have to turn into the wind to recover their aircraft, bringing them *ever closer* to Japan.
c. While TF-58 had not yet been spotted (suprisingly enough, and would never happen in WitP), the fog, and moving closer to Japan, and Kamikazis if spotted and combat maneuvering complicating things even worse,

Halsey decided to recall the strikes and cancel those for the rest of day.

However, the days strikes included a squardon of Seafires from the HMS Indefatigible, they were a flight of 12 "Ramrods", essentially fighter-sweeps in WitP terms. The Seafire was notorius not only for it's high rate of operational losses (plane was too fragile for carrier ops by comparison), but for it's short range. This group of Seafires for reasons un-explained were late to the return rendesvous point, and behind schedule when the rest of the strikes were landing. They were able to make contact with them, but they were about 20 minutes behind the rest of the formations, low on gas, and would need time to land.

Halsey sent to Admiral Rawlings (RN CV commander) to leave them; they'd have to ditch and they're try to get subs or Dumbos (PBYs) to pick them up. Given the threat to the entire fleet over 12 planes/pilots and his responsability as the fleet admiral, his descions would certainly be deemed justified (and any other as reckless). Halsey actually got on very well with the RN, with much mutual respect. The implication was that he made gave the order to leave them because that was the correct thing to do, and would have done so if they were American aircraft as well.

The life expectancy of the Seafires was pretty close to nil. If they landed anywhere near the coast, the pilots would likely be killed if captured (very few downed PoW pilots were spared). Or if they made it out to sea, the oncoming fog would make it nearly impossible to find them in seas already rough.

However, in would a fitting Hollywood ending, Adm Rawlings commanding TF-38.5 (BPF) never acknowledged the message, and while the rest of the armada turned south, TF-38.5 (Indy, KGV, 2x CLs, and 8x DDs) turned north into the wind to recover the last flight of Seafires. During the course of the half-hour it took to intercept and land the 12 fighters, the British ships approached with 40 miles of the Japanese coast, and three bogies were picked up on radar but appearently did not see the RN ships (given the point of retrieving aircraft before getting stuck in the fog, Indy was without CAP).

The entire episode managed without event (it would likely have been disastrous if there was one). For his efforts, Adm Rawlings earned himself a scathing letter from Nimitz and Halsey copied at every level of command for both the USN and RN; and the eternal gratitude of 12 pilots.

Whatever. Was a interesting story. THought I'd share.
-F-

[bobogoboom]

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

I'm just wondering how some of the more seasoned players of WITP put their Royal Navy carriers to best use?

In my previous 1942 campaigns I haven't gotten as much out of them as I felt I could have, usually using them more in defensive purposes while ferrying supplies around the coast of India and training the fliers up by bombing Andaman Island.

Thanks.

attach them to the usn because the seafires are good point defense fighters better than wildcats.

[Barb]

I like to use them to defend the India and help convoys around eastern coast without harrasing Betties on their heels.

Unfortunately my first opponent used KB+baby KB together so I was forced to balance this by moving RN carriers to Noumea. In transfer they cought nice convoy in Batavia. They just sailed from Brisbane when there was first clash near Guadalcanal - I have got Sara sunk, but other carriers were unscratched for few bomb hits on Japs. RN joined USN in Noumea, both forces replenished, USN took replacement aircraft and sailed again. Over next 5 days KB ceased to exist ... [:)] and game over [&:]

[Hornblower]

I agree with Barb.  I send one or two USN AO's into the indian ocean and use them to replenish.  That being said i use the RN CV's to provide cap on the higher valued TF's and hit run attacks from Rangoon south to Java.  From Mid-43 they have F4U's (if you upgrade them that way) so they are capable of taking care themselves - so long as you don't go nuts and keep them within themselves.  However with there limited Av levels they can't support a heavy long term attack like the Yorktown's or Essex's can.  Keep them in the Indian ocean, and it keeps a second Naval front into effect... 

[bradfordkay]

If you play CHS, some of their squadrons are scheduled to upgrade to Corsairs. Some others are scheduled to upgrade to Martlets, then Hellcats. I like letting them follow the scheduled (historical?) upgrade paths because this gives both a point defense fighter as well as an escort for your Avengers/Barracudas. 

[afspret]

In the past I've unload the air group from the Hermes and use her to transport RAF fighter units (I don't put bombers on her because they have longer legs than Hurri's & Spits).  I've used the larger ones to provide air & ASW cover for TFs and in a limited strike roll.