Why not free production?

[PyleDriver]

Simply this, were keeping it as historic as we can and less gamey...Buy AWD is you want to control the entire war....

[AZKGungHo]

I'm glad we won't be able to play around with production. I understand why people want too, but in the end it always ends up being pretty gamey in my experience anyway.

This puts us in the place of the Generals, and is a better test of your abilities because now you have to work with what your historical counterparts had too work with.  This game really sounds interesting to me!

[itsjustme]

So make an agreement not to play with production if you don't want to play with it.  Not having the ability to, makes no sense.    AWD is horrible.  Beer and pretzels game.  Not what I am interested in.   Keep the game historic, but give people the option to make it non-historical if they choose.    It makes no sense to do otherwise unless that ability is what is coming in a later game.   You can play historically or ahistorically in WITP.  Why not make the same option available here.   Again, what I am hearing is no, but I am not hearing a decent explanation of why.

[PyleDriver]

Dude, I put my head agianst a wall 8 months ago, I feel your pain. It isn't going to happpen....Sorry...

[itsjustme]

Can't argue with that honest answer.  [&o]

I'll look forward to following development.

[wworld7]

After reading your posts I am not sure any explanation would satisfy you. In the end, this game may not be for you. Personally I am pleased with the course this game seems to be taking.

While I like WITP, from the beginning announcement until today, this game was never to be a WITP type game on the eastern front. It is what it is, and I look forward to its release.

[siRkid]

I think it boils down to where they want to spend their time. Gary is spending a lot of time on the AI, logistics, combat tables and such. I was disappointed about production and not being able to decide who gets the new tanks. However, Gary put effort into Support Units, which if used right, can turn a battle, and Refit which is another way to decide who gets the new tanks. Don't forget the Allies in WitP could not play around with production and many of the players still enjoy playing the Allied side.  All of us are fans of WiR and we have a wish list that is huge. I even have one entitled "Things I'm Going to be a Pain About" that I keep bumping to the top. Please don't take it wrong but 2By3 has made the decision on what the major aspects of the game will contain and all we can do now is refine it.

[PyleDriver]

flipper, if you enjoy WWII games, this is a keeper. My wife hasn't booted me out yet, but it's getting close...lol..

[itsjustme]

Flipper-

I apologize if that's how you read my posts.  Not intended that way.   As I've said, this is generally out of character for GG games and as for replayability, it is hard to argue that leaving production out doesn't affect that.   I look forward to continuing to follow the development.

Kid-

Neither you or Pyle Driver should take my posts as anything other than love and affection for the theater that you guys are recreating.  I was 20 when I got my first copy of WIR and have been playing it ever since (I'm 40 now).  As with most of Gary's games, the criticisms are made out of wanting the best game possible, not out of malice.    I appreciate the thankless job that testers do and encourage you to continue to make it the best game it can be.  I won't change my mind that the lack of ability to change production is a pretty big flaw, but I don't proffer that opinion out of malice.

Carry on.

[siRkid]

ORIGINAL: itsjustme

Flipper-

I apologize if that's how you read my posts.  Not intended that way.   As I've said, this is generally out of character for GG games and as for replayability, it is hard to argue that leaving production out doesn't affect that.   I look forward to continuing to follow the development.

Kid-

Neither you or Pyle Driver should take my posts as anything other than love and affection for the theater that you guys are recreating.  I was 20 when I got my first copy of WIR and have been playing it ever since (I'm 40 now).  As with most of Gary's games, the criticisms are made out of wanting the best game possible, not out of malice.    I appreciate the thankless job that testers do and encourage you to continue to make it the best game it can be.  I won't change my mind that the lack of ability to change production is a pretty big flaw, but I don't proffer that opinion out of malice.

Carry on.

Oh, I never thought otherwise.

[sol_invictus]

Ideally, I would agree that throwing everything into the game would be great and would make everyone happy while supplying more replayability, all things being even. But it sounds like the actual operational aspects of the game are going to be very deep and I guess that Mainstein and Zhukov will have to forego sending in their personal production requests to Speer and Ivaninski(a completely made up name for the historical Russian production guy that I don't know the name of and that I came up with off the top of my head). I imagine it all comes down to time and money to put it bluntly.

[PyleDriver]

its...This game has so much already, it's like poker, you have to play the hand your delt with...

[Shupov]

I understand that WitE players will not be able to change what factories produce.  Will they be able to decide when to evacuate factories as in WiR?  This was a fun feature that caused the Soviet player to make tough decisions.

[Helpless]

Will they be able to decide when to evacuate factories as in WiR?

Yes

[wodin]

Production in a wargame is a no no for me. Infact I'd give the game a wide berth if production is in it. Hearts of Iron was pure overload for me. I want to deal with the fighting end of the stick not factory output. I prefer the fieldmarschal role to some head of a government department.

[PyleDriver]

As the Soviet player how you balance new troops coming to the front, and removing factories to the east is a real challenge. We added a hotkey to show locations of factories to speed game play...

[thackaray]

On the question on Soviets evacuating factories.

1) How many factories can you evacuate in:
a) a turn?
b) in total?

2) What is the time period in which you can evacuate? Until end of '41? or can you keep evacuating factories until the end of the war?

3) How long before the evacuated factories come back online?

[PyleDriver]

1) It depends on rail points for the turn, thus the balance between factories and troop transport.
2) I believe as the Soviet you can continue as long as needed.
3) This one were still working out the kinks on just how much time. Pavel (Helpless) has some great new info that may have a bering on that...

[timtom]

Good call, 2by3. Keep it real.

[CaptBeefheart]

First of all, I'd like to say I'd be quite happy to get my hands on this game regardless. However, as a huge fan of WiR from way back I'd also like to see player-controlled production of tanks and aircraft, at least as a toggle option. I loved mucking around with the aircraft and tank choices. So, what's wrong with making it a player choice? Too much coding? Can it be in patch? Can it be modded?

Cheers, CC