burma logistics

[Curty]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I do expect the AI to be an ongoing development over the next few weeks and months after release after you lot think of things I have missed

Does this mean tha ai will get improvements thru patch updates!....hope so[:)]

[DrewMatrix]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Imphal/Kohima/Chittagong.

I agree. And let them come to you. Then more they put in the jungle, far from the sea and far towards India the better. Then, when you are stronger, you can sienze some port along the coast and the Japanese have to rush back to avoid being cut off.

The more time they spend moving east, then back west (and not actually fighting) the better IMO

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Its really hard guys with so many folks running around jumping on every morsel of info the temptation to read a thread about the AI is huge but if I go into any more details I will spoil the game.

Absolutely, I'd say you should tell them NOTHING about the AI, let them find out for themselves. [8D]

[Local Yokel]

The question of whether/how the Japanese can block overland supply to China via the Burma or Ledo Roads probably has a major bearing on what they do in Burma and what the Allied response should be. However, how the Japanese can accomplish this is no longer clear to me. The AE manual says this:

"For the Allies, if a rail/road/trail path free of Japanese units between Tsuyung and Ledo or between Tsuyung and Rangoon can be traced, than each day, 500 supply points per turn are added to Tsuyung."

So what's a "trail"? Here's what the manual says:

"Railway Trail: Railway lines that do not have co-located roads, are able to be used by ground units by following the railway roadbeds. That is, by walking or driving along the railway roadbeds, rather than using actual trains. In game terms this ability is handled by the presence of the “railway trail” road type along all railways that do not coexist with main or secondary roads. No other trails exist on the map other than along such railway lines. The existence of foot trails is assumed in all hexes on the map that do not have roads defined, and this is accounted for in the off-road movement rates. Therefore there are no actual “trails” defined on the map except for along railway lines as described here."

It appears to be a straightforward matter for the Japanese to block the original Burma Road by taking Rangoon. But what about the Ledo/Stilwell Road? There certainly aren't any visible 'railway trails' - or any other road or railway - connecting Ledo with Myitkyina. That implies that supplies can never reach China via the Ledo Road (and in reality the first convoy to traverse the Ledo Road didn't do so until January 1945), in which case the Japanese have no need to go up the Irrawaddy to deny China this source of supply. But if supply can pass over the 'assumed' foot trails in the forest/jungle south of Ledo then 'closure' of the Ledo Road is apparently impossible.

I think it has been suggested that the game checks whether this supply route to China is blocked just by examining ownership of bases along the routes of the Burma and Ledo Roads. Is that so? If it is, then the manual is presumably wrong.

Whilst on the subject of supply, I can't find anything in the AE manual that corresponds with the original WitP manual's entry on what constitutes the maximum supply path value and how it's calculated. In WitP section 14.3 of the manual gives the formula. In the AE manual the closest corresponding section seems to be 15.3, but no formula is given there. If the formula is set out somewhere else, can someone please tell me where I can find it?

[Curty]

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel



So what's a "trail"? Here's what the manual says:

"Railway Trail: Railway lines that do not have co-located roads, are able to be used by ground units by following the railway roadbeds. That is, by walking or driving along the railway roadbeds, rather than using actual trains. In game terms this ability is handled by the presence of the “railway trail” road type along all railways that do not coexist with main or secondary roads. No other trails exist on the map other than along such railway lines. The existence of foot trails is assumed in all hexes on the map that do not have roads defined, and this is accounted for in the off-road movement rates. Therefore there are no actual “trails” defined on the map except for along railway lines as described here."

That's a long way of saying "it's the railways"[;)]

[HistoryGuy]

I agree with Erik, its more "fun" to find out the hard way.........

[mussey]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I do expect the AI to be an ongoing development over the next few weeks and months after release after you lot think of things I have missed

Thanks for your commitment. Anything to keep the AI less predictable will make AE more playable in the many years ahead.[:'(]

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

The question of whether/how the Japanese can block overland supply to China via the Burma or Ledo Roads probably has a major bearing on what they do in Burma and what the Allied response should be. However, how the Japanese can accomplish this is no longer clear to me. The AE manual says this:

"For the Allies, if a rail/road/trail path free of Japanese units between Tsuyung and Ledo or between Tsuyung and Rangoon can be traced, than each day, 500 supply points per turn are added to Tsuyung."

So what's a "trail"? Here's what the manual says:

"Railway Trail: Railway lines that do not have co-located roads, are able to be used by ground units by following the railway roadbeds. That is, by walking or driving along the railway roadbeds, rather than using actual trains. In game terms this ability is handled by the presence of the “railway trail” road type along all railways that do not coexist with main or secondary roads. No other trails exist on the map other than along such railway lines. The existence of foot trails is assumed in all hexes on the map that do not have roads defined, and this is accounted for in the off-road movement rates. Therefore there are no actual “trails” defined on the map except for along railway lines as described here."

It appears to be a straightforward matter for the Japanese to block the original Burma Road by taking Rangoon. But what about the Ledo/Stilwell Road? There certainly aren't any visible 'railway trails' - or any other road or railway - connecting Ledo with Myitkyina. That implies that supplies can never reach China via the Ledo Road (and in reality the first convoy to traverse the Ledo Road didn't do so until January 1945), in which case the Japanese have no need to go up the Irrawaddy to deny China this source of supply. But if supply can pass over the 'assumed' foot trails in the forest/jungle south of Ledo then 'closure' of the Ledo Road is apparently impossible.

I think it has been suggested that the game checks whether this supply route to China is blocked just by examining ownership of bases along the routes of the Burma and Ledo Roads. Is that so? If it is, then the manual is presumably wrong.

I assumed you would have to establish ownership to the secondary road hex E of Lashio along with Lashio.

[mussey]

As with history, I always seem to get beat up retreating from Burma. I tried to defend the rivers but get out-flanked or pushed back, and then once in the open - get pummelled. As for me, the first sign of a Jap trooper on Burma soil and I'm heading for the hills of India. Bug-out dude! 'Imphal or bust'.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Curty

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Its really hard guys with so many folks running around jumping on every morsel of info the temptation to read a thread about the AI is huge but if I go into any more details I will spoil the game.

After you have the game and the feeding frenzy has calmed down I will explain more but I really dont want to go into detail on the AI until its out there because it will spoil ift for folks.

Basically if I say anything everyone will read it and have part of the game ruined.

When a health warning has a chance of being effective I will discuss more but for now I need to not say much more

Broadly you will all thank me for keeping my gob shut for now

That thread realy would be too much information for me, it's enough for me to know there are extra treats in store with AE[:)]

I love your sig! It happens, but with killer whales, not sharks. BTW, the breath of a killer whale is very, very fishy...

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: mussey

As with history, I always seem to get beat up retreating from Burma. I tried to defend the rivers but get out-flanked or pushed back, and then once in the open - get pummelled. As for me, the first sign of a Jap trooper on Burma soil and I'm heading for the hills of India. Bug-out dude! 'Imphal or bust'.

Historically, the Japanese Army was lousy at stand-up fights, but world-leading at infiltration combat. Think 20-40 points higher in the LCU combat skill parameter for infiltration attacks relative to assaults. That's why the Commonwealth in Burma eventually had to learn to establish 360 degree defensive perimeters. In game terms, you can't form a continuous line against a Japanese opponent in a close terrain hex unless you have on the order of a full army--otherwise the Japanese simply leaked through into your rear. I suspect the right way to handle that is to ignore ZoCs and hex occupancy in Japanese movement--Japanese LCUs go where they please. They also don't retreat except voluntarily.

[Barb]

Well to me Burma is trap. So no more reinforcements there (except 7th Armored Bde). Burma div and 17th Indian Div is all I let to fight delaying campaign along with 3-9 Chinese Divisions from Yunan.
I'll rather use all those reinforcements elsewhere (even those that could be eventually lost)

I think I will try to play close to history - but not strictly...

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[Kwik E Mart]

Here's what I would do...

SLAP

[Kwik E Mart]

THE JAP

[Kwik E Mart]

WITH

[Kwik E Mart]

IRON

[Kwik E Mart]

edit - oops, too many irons...

[Kwik E Mart]

SCRAP

[Kwik E Mart]

...