hi erik and thatnks for looking into the CAp results.
it would make sense that the carrier based CAP had a poor preformance at the beginning of the war because of lack of good radar and low experience in carrier operations.
that leads to following questions:
-in the beta test of the game, how was the CAP preformance later in the game lets say in 1943?
-will the CAP improve during the war? remember: even at coral sea japanese CAP and flak shot down more then 1/3 of the allied strike on zuinaku and shokaku and the allied CAP was deadly at the battle of santa cruz. that all happend in 1942.
and:
-do the japanese not have a massive disadvantage in carrier battles until they get realy good air warning radars?
but beside the possible CAP "bug" AE is a great game with alot of improvements.
The CAP Thread
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: The CAP Thread
really hoping we might see some results from the GC scenario to see if things change.
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
RE: The CAP Thread
Rominet,
Try these settings:
All Fighters 15k' Escort with 50% CAP
All DB 15k' Naval Attack
All TB 5k' Naval Attack
Try these settings:
All Fighters 15k' Escort with 50% CAP
All DB 15k' Naval Attack
All TB 5k' Naval Attack
IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES
RE: The CAP Thread
ORIGINAL: TheElf
Rominet,
Try these settings:
All Fighters 15k' Escort with 50% CAP
All DB 15k' Naval Attack
All TB 5k' Naval Attack
On Coral sea scenario???
RE: The CAP Thread
On Coral Sea and Grand CampaignORIGINAL: rominet
ORIGINAL: TheElf
Rominet,
Try these settings:
All Fighters 15k' Escort with 50% CAP
All DB 15k' Naval Attack
All TB 5k' Naval Attack
On Coral sea scenario???
All you need do is detach a single CARDIV from KB and Send them to Wake with a reprentative Escort and have Enterprise and Lex Rendevous with them there for a test. Make sure to save the turn before you execute so you can run it from there multiple times and form a data sample.
IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES
RE: The CAP Thread
I don't think you are getting as many planes into the fray as you think.
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36
CAP engaged:
EI-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
EII-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (7 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 3 minutes
15 planes vectored on to bombers
Looks to me like you only got 9 planes into the fight.
"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown
RE: The CAP Thread
ORIGINAL: TheElf
On Coral Sea and Grand CampaignORIGINAL: rominet
ORIGINAL: TheElf
Rominet,
Try these settings:
All Fighters 15k' Escort with 50% CAP
All DB 15k' Naval Attack
All TB 5k' Naval Attack
On Coral sea scenario???
All you need do is detach a single CARDIV from KB and Send them to Wake with a reprentative Escort and have Enterprise and Lex Rendevous with them there for a test. Make sure to save the turn before you execute so you can run it from there multiple times and form a data sample.
I did 3 tests but only in the Coral Sea scenario: here they are:
* First test:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 07, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Deboyne Islands at 106,138
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23
B5N2 Kate x 24
D3A1 Val x 39
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 21
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
D3A1 Val: 19 damaged (by Flak only)
Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 3
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CA New Orleans
DD Morris
Aircraft Attacking:
18 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
21 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
11 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 55 minutes
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vella Lavella at 109,133
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 19
SBD-3 Dauntless x 43
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 16 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 1
CA Haguro
Aircraft Attacking:
14 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
14 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
14 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
CAP engaged:
EI-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
EII-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vella Lavella at 109,133
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 11
Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 15
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 damaged (by Flak only)
Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Aircraft Attacking:
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
CAP engaged:
EI-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
EII-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Deboyne Islands at 106,138
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 45 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
B5N2 Kate x 30
D3A1 Val x 30
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 14
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed, 17 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Allied aircraft losses
Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
CA Portland, Torpedo hits 1
CA Chester, Torpedo hits 1
CA Chicago
CA Astoria, Bomb hits 1
CA Minneapolis, Bomb hits 3
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2, on fire
Aircraft Attacking:
11 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
9 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
18 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
19 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Vella Lavella at 109,133
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms
Raid spotted at 48 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 10
SBD-3 Dauntless x 22
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 11 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 1
CV Shokaku
CA Myoko
Aircraft Attacking:
10 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
11 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
CAP engaged:
EI-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
EII-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
No planes shot down by a fighter
* Second test:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 07, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Rennell Island at 110,139
Weather in hex: Light cloud
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23
B5N2 Kate x 35
D3A1 Val x 30
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 40
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 4 destroyed, 17 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Allied Ships
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 1
CA Minneapolis
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 10, on fire
CA Astoria, Bomb hits 1
CA Portland
CA New Orleans, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CA Chester, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
18 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
22 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
12 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 10 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 50 minutes
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 9 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 56 minutes
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Lexington
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Rennell Island at 110,139
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 45 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 21
B5N2 Kate x 22
D3A1 Val x 37
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 20
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed, 15 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
D3A1 Val: 14 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Allied Ships
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Minneapolis, Bomb hits 5
DD Morris
DD Hammann
CA Chester
CA Portland, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Anderson
Aircraft Attacking:
18 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
7 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
19 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
13 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Lexington
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Yorktown
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Vella Lavella at 109,133
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Raid spotted at 35 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 19
SBD-3 Dauntless x 58
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 18 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 4, on fire
DD Ushio
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CA Haguro, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
DD Shigure, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Akebono
DD Ariake
Aircraft Attacking:
14 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
14 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
15 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
15 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
CAP engaged:
EI-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
EII-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Zuikaku
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Shokaku
I precise that there were some dogfights between fighters; some fighters were damaged, never killed; nevertheless, after the turn, i noticed 1 Zero killed by Air-Air combat in the Air losses report
* Third test:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 07, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Deboyne Islands at 106,136
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23
B5N2 Kate x 35
D3A1 Val x 27
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 36
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 5 destroyed, 15 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 13 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 2
DD Dewey, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CA Chester, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
CA Portland
CA Minneapolis
Aircraft Attacking:
18 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
11 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
9 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
20 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 13 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 58 minutes
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Dewey
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vella Lavella at 109,133
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid spotted at 44 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4
SBD-3 Dauntless x 44
TBD-1 Devastator x 12
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 14 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
TBD-1 Devastator: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 5
CV Shokaku
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 1
CA Haguro
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
15 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
15 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
12 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb AP Bomb
CAP engaged:
EI-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
EII-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vella Lavella at 109,133
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 14
Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 14
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 7 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku
CV Zuikaku
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
14 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
CAP engaged:
EI-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(8 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
EII-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Myoko
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vella Lavella at 109,133
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
Allied aircraft
TBD-1 Devastator x 12
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
TBD-1 Devastator: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
5 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb AP Bomb
CAP engaged:
EII-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
EI-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Deboyne Islands at 106,136
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid detected at 12 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes
Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 12
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 28
Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CA Astoria
Aircraft Attacking:
7 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (14 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (14 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Deboyne Islands at 106,136
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 21
B5N2 Kate x 11
D3A1 Val x 32
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 34
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 18 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis, Bomb hits 7, on fire
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
CA Astoria, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
16 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
16 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg AP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(17 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 9 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 58 minutes
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 5 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Astoria
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Vella Lavella at 109,133
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid spotted at 42 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19
Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4
SBD-3 Dauntless x 43
TBD-1 Devastator x 15
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 9 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
TBD-1 Devastator: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged (Kills by Flak only)
Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ushio
DD Yugure
CA Haguro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Akebono
Aircraft Attacking:
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
11 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb AP Bomb
11 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
9 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb AP Bomb
CAP engaged:
EI-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
EII-1 Daitai with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Zuikaku
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Myoko
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Shokaku
Some dogfight once again but no kill; 1 SBD reported killed by Air-Air combat in the Air losses report
In all these 3 tests, after the dogfights between fighters, no fighters (Jap or US) managed to approach and fire on any ennemy bombers; all bombers were killed by Flak
RE: The CAP Thread
My theory to this point is that the CAP results are somehow affected by which Scenario you use. To this point you have only used the Coral Sea Scenario, so as a variable I suggest using the GC to establish either that it IS the Scenario, or it isn't.
IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES
RE: The CAP Thread
One other thing. I find it helpful to watch the replays and jot down on a notepad how many of each A/C is lost to AAA or CAP. Then check the Aircraft losses on the Intel screen after the combat to confirm.
IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES
RE: The CAP Thread
ORIGINAL: TheElf
My theory to this point is that the CAP results are somehow affected by which Scenario you use. To this point you have only used the Coral Sea Scenario, so as a variable I suggest using the GC to establish either that it IS the Scenario, or it isn't.
I am doing it in that moment.
It seems you are right.
RE: The CAP Thread
Rominet had me interested enough that I ran a couple tests in the GC, not the Coral Sea. Results are certainly less bloody than we've come to expect in WitP, but the CAP did work. Set CAP at 70% for the following, all altitudes at 15K, and in 3 of 4 battles there were significant losses from CAP ( average 65% from CAP, 35% from Flak. ) I guess it's just the Coral Sea scenario itself where the results are skewed.
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RE: The CAP Thread
now that looks just fine and great. maybe its realy only a problem with coral sea and the carrier CAP works well in the GC?
your results are realy great. it seems realy that some bombers can still penetrate the CAP and land their hits on the carriers.
the japanese results will be surely better with radar and i hope there will be some japanese CL with typ 13 or 21 radar on board from the beginning like in WITP. this cruisers (i think they are 2 or 3..dont remember now) make great carrier eskort.
your results are realy great. it seems realy that some bombers can still penetrate the CAP and land their hits on the carriers.
the japanese results will be surely better with radar and i hope there will be some japanese CL with typ 13 or 21 radar on board from the beginning like in WITP. this cruisers (i think they are 2 or 3..dont remember now) make great carrier eskort.
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jwilkerson
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RE: The CAP Thread
ORIGINAL: bigbaba
now that looks just fine and great. maybe its realy only a problem with coral sea and the carrier CAP works well in the GC?
your results are realy great. it seems realy that some bombers can still penetrate the CAP and land their hits on the carriers.
the japanese results will be surely better with radar and i hope there will be some japanese CL with typ 13 or 21 radar on board from the beginning like in WITP. this cruisers (i think they are 2 or 3..dont remember now) make great carrier eskort.
We're looking at Coral Sea to see if some difference inadvertably crept in there - so far nothing as turned up.
There are no Japanese CL with radar on board from the beginning ... stock had Kitakami and Oii starting with radar, but this was erroneous. A few large Japanese ships start getting radar towards late 42, but radar does not become widespread on the IJN ships until early 44.
WITP Admiral's Edition - Project Lead
War In Spain - Project Lead
War In Spain - Project Lead
RE: The CAP Thread
Ok, now, 4 tests for a simulation of Coral sea battle but on the grand campaign scenario.
Zuikaku, Shokaku and some escort ships have been detached from the KB for a direct confrontation with Enterprise and Lexington.
* First test:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 09, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 164,99
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 10
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
SBD-2 Dauntless x 44
SBD-3 Dauntless x 13
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed (3 killed by fighters)
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 2 destroyed (3 killed by fighters)
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed (2 killed by fighters)
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged (1 killed by fighters after the raid)
Japanese Ships
CA Chikuma, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CA Tone
DD Isokaze
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Zuikaku
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Shokaku
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Chikuma
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 159,100
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 26
D3A1 Val x 26
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed (2 killed by fighters)
B5N2 Kate: 9 destroyed, 4 damaged (13 killed by fighters)
D3A1 Val: 6 destroyed, 2 damaged (8 killed by fighters)
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 2, on fire
Aircraft Attacking:
12 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
In red, i noticed what i have seen in the animation combat; there can be a great discrepancy with the combat report but the red numbers are confirmed by the Air losses report for the Kate (13), Val (8), Zero (5), Buffalo (4) and SBD (1) but not for the F4F-3A (3 instead of 2 in the animation combat)
One thing is sure, it is completely different from the results in the Coral sea scenario, the US CAP is horribly efficient but the Japanese's one still isn't, against US bombers at least
* Second test:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 09, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 159,97
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 39
D3A1 Val x 26
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
B5N2 Kate: 5 destroyed, 11 damaged (5 killed by fighters)
D3A1 Val: 4 destroyed, 3 damaged (5 killed by fighters)
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 1
CV Lexington, Torpedo hits 1
CA Portland, Torpedo hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
8 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
21 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
There was no allied raid because of bad weather i think; the numbers in red are nearly exactly those given by the Air losses report
* Third test:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 09, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 165,99
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 10
SBD-2 Dauntless x 29
SBD-3 Dauntless x 13
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 3 destroyed (5 killed by fighters)
SBD-2 Dauntless: 5 destroyed, 9 damaged (6 killed by fighters)
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged (3 killed by fighters)
Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 2
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
10 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
11 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 160,102
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 26
D3A1 Val x 26
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
F4F-3A Wildcat x 20
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed (5 killed by fighters)
B5N2 Kate: 9 destroyed, 4 damaged (15 killed by fighters)
D3A1 Val: 6 destroyed, 5 damaged (9 killed by fighters)
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 7
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
5 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 17000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 56 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 10 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 51 minutes
10 planes vectored on to bombers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 160,102
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 11 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes
Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 13
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 3
F4F-3A Wildcat x 3
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged (5 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Enterprise
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 160,102
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 11
B5N2 Kate x 25
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 7
F4F-3A Wildcat x 15
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 13 destroyed, 3 damaged (20 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 3 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 7 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
The first time the Jap CAP is really efficient; however, the US's one remains better in the animation;
there is a great discrepancy between losses i have seen and real losses for SBD-2 (13 instead of 6), same for SBD-3 (7 instead of 3)
* Fourth test:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 09, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 164,99
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 10
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
SBD-2 Dauntless x 44
SBD-3 Dauntless x 13
TBD-1 Devastator x 11
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed (2 killed by fighters)
F4F-3A Wildcat: 2 destroyed (3 killed by fighters)
SBD-2 Dauntless: 8 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 7 damaged
TBD-1 Devastator: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged
Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Hamakaze
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 1
DD Urakaze
CA Tone, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
DD Shiranui
DD Tanikaze
CA Chikuma, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x TBD-1 Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
15 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Zuikaku
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 162,103
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 45 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 39
D3A1 Val x 26
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
B5N2 Kate: 10 destroyed, 10 damaged (12 killed by fighters)
D3A1 Val: 5 destroyed (6 killed by fighters)
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 1
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Maury
CA Chester, Bomb hits 1
CA Northampton
Aircraft Attacking:
7 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
13 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 164,99
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid detected at 14 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
Allied aircraft
TBD-1 Devastator x 15
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
TBD-1 Devastator: 6 destroyed, 5 damaged (9 killed by fighters)
Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, on fire
CV Zuikaku, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
5 x TBD-1 Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
Once again, 15 Kate really shot down instead of 12 in the animation, 12 TBD instead of 9
Even if i found the Zero a little bit weak and Jap CAP still mediocre, it is far more realistic than in the Coral Sea scenario. I am reassured. [:)]
Zuikaku, Shokaku and some escort ships have been detached from the KB for a direct confrontation with Enterprise and Lexington.
* First test:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 09, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 164,99
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 10
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
SBD-2 Dauntless x 44
SBD-3 Dauntless x 13
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed (3 killed by fighters)
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 2 destroyed (3 killed by fighters)
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed (2 killed by fighters)
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged (1 killed by fighters after the raid)
Japanese Ships
CA Chikuma, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CA Tone
DD Isokaze
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Zuikaku
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Shokaku
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Chikuma
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 159,100
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 26
D3A1 Val x 26
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed (2 killed by fighters)
B5N2 Kate: 9 destroyed, 4 damaged (13 killed by fighters)
D3A1 Val: 6 destroyed, 2 damaged (8 killed by fighters)
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 2, on fire
Aircraft Attacking:
12 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
In red, i noticed what i have seen in the animation combat; there can be a great discrepancy with the combat report but the red numbers are confirmed by the Air losses report for the Kate (13), Val (8), Zero (5), Buffalo (4) and SBD (1) but not for the F4F-3A (3 instead of 2 in the animation combat)
One thing is sure, it is completely different from the results in the Coral sea scenario, the US CAP is horribly efficient but the Japanese's one still isn't, against US bombers at least
* Second test:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 09, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 159,97
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 39
D3A1 Val x 26
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
B5N2 Kate: 5 destroyed, 11 damaged (5 killed by fighters)
D3A1 Val: 4 destroyed, 3 damaged (5 killed by fighters)
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 1
CV Lexington, Torpedo hits 1
CA Portland, Torpedo hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
8 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
21 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
There was no allied raid because of bad weather i think; the numbers in red are nearly exactly those given by the Air losses report
* Third test:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 09, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 165,99
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 10
SBD-2 Dauntless x 29
SBD-3 Dauntless x 13
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 3 destroyed (5 killed by fighters)
SBD-2 Dauntless: 5 destroyed, 9 damaged (6 killed by fighters)
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged (3 killed by fighters)
Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 2
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
10 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
11 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 160,102
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 26
D3A1 Val x 26
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
F4F-3A Wildcat x 20
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed (5 killed by fighters)
B5N2 Kate: 9 destroyed, 4 damaged (15 killed by fighters)
D3A1 Val: 6 destroyed, 5 damaged (9 killed by fighters)
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 7
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
5 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 17000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 56 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 10 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 51 minutes
10 planes vectored on to bombers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 160,102
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 11 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes
Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 13
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 3
F4F-3A Wildcat x 3
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged (5 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Enterprise
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 160,102
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 11
B5N2 Kate x 25
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 7
F4F-3A Wildcat x 15
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 13 destroyed, 3 damaged (20 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 3 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 7 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
The first time the Jap CAP is really efficient; however, the US's one remains better in the animation;
there is a great discrepancy between losses i have seen and real losses for SBD-2 (13 instead of 6), same for SBD-3 (7 instead of 3)
* Fourth test:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 09, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 164,99
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 10
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
SBD-2 Dauntless x 44
SBD-3 Dauntless x 13
TBD-1 Devastator x 11
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed (2 killed by fighters)
F4F-3A Wildcat: 2 destroyed (3 killed by fighters)
SBD-2 Dauntless: 8 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 7 damaged
TBD-1 Devastator: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged
Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Hamakaze
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 1
DD Urakaze
CA Tone, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
DD Shiranui
DD Tanikaze
CA Chikuma, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x TBD-1 Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
15 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Zuikaku
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 162,103
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 45 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 39
D3A1 Val x 26
Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
B5N2 Kate: 10 destroyed, 10 damaged (12 killed by fighters)
D3A1 Val: 5 destroyed (6 killed by fighters)
Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed (1 killed by fighters)
Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 1
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Maury
CA Chester, Bomb hits 1
CA Northampton
Aircraft Attacking:
7 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
13 x D3A1 Val diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 164,99
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid detected at 14 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
Allied aircraft
TBD-1 Devastator x 15
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
TBD-1 Devastator: 6 destroyed, 5 damaged (9 killed by fighters)
Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, on fire
CV Zuikaku, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
5 x TBD-1 Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
Once again, 15 Kate really shot down instead of 12 in the animation, 12 TBD instead of 9
Even if i found the Zero a little bit weak and Jap CAP still mediocre, it is far more realistic than in the Coral Sea scenario. I am reassured. [:)]
-
treespider
- Posts: 5781
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:34 am
- Location: Edgewater, MD
RE: The CAP Thread
May be a stupid question...but in regards to discrepancies between reports and list of kills....have you been running tests with Fog of War ON or OFF?
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
RE: The CAP Thread
@rominet,
It is as I suspected. There is something amiss between the CS and the GC scenarios.
Thanks for the independent player test.
It is as I suspected. There is something amiss between the CS and the GC scenarios.
Thanks for the independent player test.
IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES
RE: The CAP Thread
ORIGINAL: TheElf
@rominet,
It is as I suspected. There is something amiss between the CS and the GC scenarios.
Thanks for the independent player test.
Could it be that the F4F-3 only had 4 MG vice 6 in -4. That doesn't explain the A6M2's poor performance though
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
RE: The CAP Thread
Too bad there's no late war scenario where we could test with Hellcats and better radar...
RE: The CAP Thread
The combat reports don't say it all, though. The number of kills on them is always very low.
But how many bombers turned back / had mechanical problems / low engine pressure / etc? Even if you get "destroyed" in the air routine (ie, red flash) it isn't necessarily a kill anymore.
But how many bombers turned back / had mechanical problems / low engine pressure / etc? Even if you get "destroyed" in the air routine (ie, red flash) it isn't necessarily a kill anymore.
RE: The CAP Thread
Well, there is an editor...[:'(]ORIGINAL: 88l71
Too bad there's no late war scenario where we could test with Hellcats and better radar...
IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES