Ridiculous Surface Combat Result

[Zebedee]

ORIGINAL: pad152

Any one seen a surface combat where the Japanese defeats a equal or superior force? So far I haven't!

Check the AAR forum. The two examples in this thread are outliers with very reasonable ingame explanations (actually given in the combat reports). Remember too that FoW applies to combat reports. I've given up counting how many ships I've sunk which aren't when I've checked once the turn has processed! In AI games, what difficulty level is being used - Very Hard gives combat bonuses to the AI (although whether this touches naval combat, who knows?).

[Cap Mandrake]

OK...here is one:

Night battle off Tassafaronga:

Japs have only 8 DD's, no radar, Takanami, Oyashio, Kuroshio, Kagero, Makinami, Naganami, Kawakaze, and Suzukaze. Even worse, the Japs had no torpedo reloads as they were on a fast transport mission to Lunga.

Allies have the heavy cruisers USS Minneapolis, New Orleans, Pensacola, and Northampton, the light cruiser Honolulu, and four destroyers (Fletcher, Drayton, Maury, and Perkins)...plus radar advantage. Good bye Jap DD's, right?

Nope. The Japs lose one DD, the Allies lose Northampton and the other three CA's are beat up bad..Pensacola was out of the war for 11 mos.

Ridiculous

[Dixie]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

OK...here is one:

Night battle off Tassafaronga:

Japs have only 8 DD's, no radar, Takanami, Oyashio, Kuroshio, Kagero, Makinami, Naganami, Kawakaze, and Suzukaze. Even worse, the Japs had no torpedo reloads as they were on a fast transport mission to Lunga.

Allies have the heavy cruisers USS Minneapolis, New Orleans, Pensacola, and Northampton, the light cruiser Honolulu, and four destroyers (Fletcher, Drayton, Maury, and Perkins)...plus radar advantage. Good bye Jap DD's, right?

Nope. The Japs lose one DD, the Allies lose Northampton and the other three CA's are beat up bad..Pensacola was out of the war for 11 mos.

Ridiculous

We all know real life is bugged though [:-]

[SteveD64]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

It's been discussed before I  think but surface combat TFs have an advantage over other types of taskforce.  I think certainly in the case of what happens when they meet air combat TFs, the advantage seems to be far too great.

Surely the sole reason why a BB is in an air combat TF at all is to protect the CVs.   So theres two battleships there whose sole mission is to make sure the CVs are safe.  Thats a hell of a lot more firepower than a CL can manage, and in daylight too, and I presume in open seas.  And then theres a whole mass of DDs to screen against torpedo attacks.

Surely in daylight the Allies would be massacred 95% of the time.

I can understand a night battle being much more of a tossup, but during the day?

There is one issue. Carriers and transports should be behind (at least some of) the destroyers and heavy gunships, not mixed in with them. The game currently organises one or two lines of combatants. It should add a third for carriers and non-combatants.

Yeah, I buy this. As it stands a transport task force has a good chance of being wiped out to the last ship if it encounters a superior surface fleet. Even lightly escorted transports could get away from a battle, maybe not unscathed, simply because of the confusion of the battle and fact that they would scatter. Seems now they're just sitting in a battle line.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: jjax

I agree that surface combat needs a bit of balancing.

But I think a lot of people are just looking at the number of ships and ship types and thinking that they should have won the battle.

As in Denmark Strait. 1 BB and 1 CA vs. 2 BB and 2 CA. Obviously Bismarck and Prinz Eugen won that one.

[Dili]

If this was resonable would happen once in a time. Not wacky results so often.

Night battle off Tassafaronga:

Japs have only 8 DD's, no radar, Takanami, Oyashio, Kuroshio, Kagero, Makinami, Naganami, Kawakaze, and Suzukaze. Even worse, the Japs had no torpedo reloads as they were on a fast transport mission to Lunga.

Allies have the heavy cruisers USS Minneapolis, New Orleans, Pensacola, and Northampton, the light cruiser Honolulu, and four destroyers (Fletcher, Drayton, Maury, and Perkins)...plus radar advantage. Good bye Jap DD's, right?

Nope. The Japs lose one DD, the Allies lose Northampton and the other three CA's are beat up bad..Pensacola was out of the war for 11 mos.

Ridiculous

Not necessarely comparable. A bunch of torpedos launched at once can unbalance an engagement, because it happens in small time window and can be made undetected. Shooting up the other one is a bit different, it emplies time and being detected.

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL:  Mike Scholl
As in Denmark Strait.  1 BB and 1 CA vs. 2 BB and 2 CA.  Obviously Bismarck and Prinz Eugen won that one.

I dunno.  It'd be quite clear from the AE combat report what happens here...

BC Hood is hit by KMS Bismarck
*MAGAZINE EXPLOSION*
Leach, J orders Allied T to disengage

[:D]

I don't think you'd see people arguing over that one in the forums.

[kirk23_MatrixForum]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: jjax

I agree that surface combat needs a bit of balancing.

But I think a lot of people are just looking at the number of ships and ship types and thinking that they should have won the battle.

As in Denmark Strait. 1 BB and 1 CA vs. 2 BB and 2 CA. Obviously Bismarck and Prinz Eugen won that one.

Nearly right the 2 British heavy cruiser's played no part in the action,just shadowed and allowed Hood & Prince of Wales to engage Bismarck & Prinz Eugen, Prince of Wales was new with dock yard workmen on board,and Hood was old,plunging fire did the damage at long range,she just blew up !! along with a relative of mine,he is very sadly missed[:(]

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet along with a relative of mine,he is very sadly missed[:(]

Bummer. [:(]

[Sardaukar]

This is quite funny. When WitP came out, people were appalled that most of the ships in for example Transport TF could escape, since attackers usually concentrated on couple of ships. People demanded change.
 
OK, now it is different in AE and whole TFs can be easily wiped out by Surface Combat TF. And people demand change.
 
[:D]

[kirk23_MatrixForum]

Rumour has it that Hood had Ammo still stored on deck,no one can be certain what happened it was over in a blink of an eye,one moment she was there and the next just a sinking wreck blown in half[:(]

[Mark Weston]

Sir.

I am Rear Admiral Victor Crutchely VC, and I would like to complain about the absurd results of last night's naval action. How is it possible that an enemy force of seven cruisers and one destroyer could defeat my eight cruisers and fifteen destroyers without suffering any serious losses themselves? Didn't you beta test this damn war before you released it to the public?

Fix this immediately or you'll be hearing from my solicitors!

Yours etc.

Crutchely

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

This is quite funny. When WitP came out, people were appalled that most of the ships in for example Transport TF could escape, since attackers usually concentrated on couple of ships. People demanded change.

OK, now it is different in AE and whole TFs can be easily wiped out by Surface Combat TF. And people demand change.

[:D]

Well, you can't please all the people all of the time.

I love the new surface combat model. [:)]

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

Sir.

I am Rear Admiral Victor Crutchely VC, and I would like to complain about the absurd results of last night's naval action. How is it possible that an enemy force of seven cruisers and one destroyer could defeat my eight cruisers and fifteen destroyers without suffering any serious losses themselves? Didn't you beta test this damn war before you released it to the public?

Fix this immediately or you'll be hearing from my solicitors!

Yours etc.

Crutchely

Rear Admiral Victor Crutchely VC

That wouldn't happen in AE anyway, those Jap heavy cruisers would be hit by Dauntlesses long before they got near Crutchly. [;)]

(I know it just happened to Admiral Gonichi Banana's forces the other day [:(])

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

This is quite funny. When WitP came out, people were appalled that most of the ships in for example Transport TF could escape, since attackers usually concentrated on couple of ships. People demanded change.

OK, now it is different in AE and whole TFs can be easily wiped out by Surface Combat TF. And people demand change.

[:D]

Well, you can't please all the people all of the time.

I love the new surface combat model. [:)]

Me too. Even though I think that early war Allied radar gives too big effect in surface combat. But generally I am quite pleased.

[SteveD64]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

This is quite funny. When WitP came out, people were appalled that most of the ships in for example Transport TF could escape, since attackers usually concentrated on couple of ships. People demanded change.

OK, now it is different in AE and whole TFs can be easily wiped out by Surface Combat TF. And people demand change.

[:D]

I never played the original game but it sounds pretty great! [:D]

[SteveD64]

I'm having a ball regardless of whatever minor complaints I can come up with.  [:)]

[SteveD64]

It's funny that this thread was just started though.  Last night one lone American destroyer ran into CVL Ryujo, BB Mutsu, 2CL's and 2DD's at night.  The BB was hit 5 times and the carrier once and the American destroyer never touched.   Coming up with a narrative for this- "a destroyer blunders into a returning task force and gets off a couple of salvos and gets the hell out of town" - is half the fun.

[bstarr]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

This is quite funny. When WitP came out, people were appalled that most of the ships in for example Transport TF could escape, since attackers usually concentrated on couple of ships. People demanded change.

OK, now it is different in AE and whole TFs can be easily wiped out by Surface Combat TF. And people demand change.

[:D]

It reminds me of American politics. One extreme or the other. No happy middle ground.

[JohnDillworth]

Rumour has it that Hood had Ammo still stored on deck,no one can be certain what happened it was over in a blink of an eye,one moment she was there and the next just a sinking wreck blown in half

Probably not. I don't think the RN would store ammo on deck. This is related to poor flash doors in the turret and old ammo. Same thing that blew up a couple at Jutland. One turret hit and POW!. I read once that even when they fixed the flash doors/curtains the crews would routinely force them to stay open so they could keep their rates of fire high. They even practiced this.