PT Boats are awesome

[bradfordkay]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"So anytime PTs attack a TF containing Destroyers, they should be completely shredded."

So why didn't that happen to the PTs at Surigao Strait?

Here's the sum total of what PT Boats achieved at Surigao Strait:

Actual attacks might be thought a bit disappointing. Only two torpedoes scored.

The hit on Abukuma was an accident. The torpedo was aimed at a different target, but missed. At the time of launch Abukuma was not even visibile from the attacker, PT-137. The hit on Asagumo was obtained when the DD was already badly damaged and almost immobile. Even then, PT-323 launched three torpedoes in three separate attacks and only the last one hit. Asagumo was finished off by Destroyers.

http://www.ptboatworld.com/SurigaoStrait.html

So. They hit something they didn't aim at. And hit something else that was dead in the water, and even then had to fire three different times before finally landing a blow. And still needed help from US Destroyers to finish it off. Sure doesn't sound like the current scourge of AE. A massive amount of nerfing needs to be imposed on these overhyped, under-resulted bogeymen.

Edit: To answer your question a little more directly, the 37 PT Boats that attacked the Japanese forces at Surigao Strait were soon supported by a host of Destroyers, Cruisers and Battleships (see map link below). So the IJN had other things to worry about. But in AE today, imagine the result if you sent a PT Boat TF of 37 against a Japanese force of 2 BB, 1 CA, and 4 DD? My God, the IJN would be annihilated! But in the opening attack at Surigao, the 37 achieved exactly zero hits. Their success, such as it was, came against the following group of 2 CA, 1 CL, and 8 DD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Surigao_straight.jpg

My point was that they were not shredded. I am not arguing that they don't appear to be having too great of success in AE (I haven't experienced it either way as of yet), but I took umbrage at your suggestion that they should be toothpick fodder if destroyers are about.

[witpqs]

I now have about 12 game-months of play in as Allies vs AI. PT's seem way too effective. They kill unescorted ships, escorted ships, and get lucky against warships. Two times I've had them torpedo a carrier in the KB on the 4th day of attacks on Pearl Harbor. I've had them otherwise catch (and torpedo) carriers in ocean hexes also.

They are effective in open ocean (maybe they should be less so?), they are (IMO) too accurate with their torpedoes, and they are almost certainly too survivable.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Dili

That is not true. PT boats operated in many places and certainly at sea.

I don't have any issue with results above except last one and even that if suprise was achieved it is okay that it could happen. It was at night.

The first ones even could happen even easily at day time.
For example how many guns in first engagement the Japanese had that can be pointed at PT's probably 2 in PB and 1 in each xAK

So when they are firing at 4 PT's there are still 5 PT's that can go around.

-----------
In Mediterranean PT boats had several success against warships and even a British Cruiser was sunk.

Here are the story of PT boats in USN

At Close Quarters
PT Boats in the United States Navy
http://funsite.unc.edu/hyperwar/USN/Clo ... html#index

Thanks for the source. But it's quite dated (1962) and hardly an impartial view, since the author was the PT Boat skipper who took MacArthur out of the Phillipines. Also notable for what's not in it - a confirmed list of everything the PTs sunk. All the Unit citations are for barge actions or pilot rescues, and the majority of the alleged successes against warships came during the Guadalcanal campaign, and most of those are not backed up by any claims other than those of the PT-Boat crews themselves. Lots of "assumed sinkings" in there. And absolutely zero incidents of blue water combat on the high seas, far from any coast.

The Surigao Strait action is the most believable because there were so many witnesses, both on PTs and other navy platforms, plus the US "held the field" at the end of the day and could confirm what was sunk and what wasn't. My problem with most of the other PT Boat actions was they involve only a few ships who hit and run in the dark of the night and can't confirm their results.

Be that as it may, we can quibble over whether the PTs really sank 5 CLs and 12 destroyers in the entire war (as claimed) or something much less. What isn't in dispute is that two or three AE actions can replicate the sum total of ALL PT Boat claims in the entire Pacific War. That's just crazy.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
My point was that they were not shredded. I am not arguing that they don't appear to be having too great of success in AE (I haven't experienced it either way as of yet), but I took umbrage at your suggestion that they should be toothpick fodder if destroyers are about.

On this we agree. Just as the facts prove that PTs weren't very effective in Surface Combat, they likewise tended to have good survivability. At night. But there have also been posted instances of them being effective AND surviving in daylight combat. That's when even a few DDs could probably shred them with AA guns alone (if PT's had ever been crazy enough to try a major daylight attack IRL, which they didn't)

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Kull

On this we agree. Just as the facts prove that PTs weren't very effective in Surface Combat, they likewise tended to have good survivability. At night. But there have also been posted instances of them being effective AND surviving in daylight combat. That's when even a few DDs could probably shred them with AA guns alone (if PT's had ever been crazy enough to try a major daylight attack IRL, which they didn't)

I've had tons of these instances.

[Fishbed]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"So anytime PTs attack a TF containing Destroyers, they should be completely shredded."

So why didn't that happen to the PTs at Surigao Strait?

That is what destroyers were originally designed to do, but by WW2 their design and purpose had changed. On top of that, just because something is designed to perform a task it doesn't mean that it will invariably perform that task to perfection...

People I think you are all making your argument on a wrong basis. The TB the DD is supposed to destroy is not the PT/Elco/Schnellboot kind, it's the torpedo-boat, which back then (in the late XIXth century) weren't as small as they became with the PTs. The TB is smaller than the DD, but soemtimes marginally so (especially the early designs). But in the navies like the French or the German navy, you still had this distinction until WW2, while PT would become another kind of boats entirely (the French use "torpilleur" for TB and "contre-torpilleurs" for DD; in the Kriegsmarine, look at the Torpedoboot classes). DDs were supposed to catch their smaller friends back in the late XIXth century, but in the 1940s, they just retained the name of their function, while evolving to more important fleet duties. Still, because of their speed and their armament, they're truly the best escort out there to deal with anything smaller carrying torpedoes.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

People I think you are all making your argument on a wrong basis. The TB the DD is supposed to destroy is not the PT/Elco/Schnellboot kind, it's the torpedo-boat, which back then (in the late XIXth century) weren't as small as they became with the PTs. The TB is smaller than the DD, but soemtimes marginally so (especially the early designs). But in the navies like the French or the German navy, you still had this distinction until WW2, while PT would become another kind of boats entirely (the French use "torpilleur" for TB and "contre-torpilleurs" for DD; in the Kriegsmarine, look at the Torpedoboot classes). DDs were supposed to catch their smaller friends back in the late XIXth century, but in the 1940s, they just retained the name of their function, while evolving to more important fleet duties. Still, because of their speed and their armament, they're truly the best escort out there to deal with anything smaller carrying torpedoes.

Good points, and well made. There's no question the "Torpedo Boat Destroyer" name comes from a different era and as both you and Dili have pointed out, the technology of the WW2 torpedo boat was completely different from those of the earlier eras. So yes, Destroyers shouldn't be able to swat them down like flies, and - most important of all - the facts coming out of WW2 show that they didn't. Just as the facts show that PTs didn't singlehandedly (i.e. PTs alone) take on and destroy large convoys of 5000+ ton ships of any complexion.

[Fishbed]

Personally I find the "coastal hex" restricted rule interesting. Pt-Boats shouldn't be allowed in an ocean hex alone (maybe they could be put together with a transport for refueling purpose - is it the way they were brought to Tulagi? Or were they loaded up into AKs? I remember I saw photos of the latter). Reading the "Thousand Miles War", I remember quite well early in the war the USN tried to have Pt-Boats reach the Aleutians under their own power from the West Coast, to no avail - they were following the coast, but the weather was way too tough for them, and they had to get back (maybe one of them even capsized or something).
Let's say, we just allow them to cross one hex of ocean water if needed, but two hex of ocean is maybe already one too many.

[bradfordkay]

Some years ago someone posted a photo here of a fleet of PTs sailing from Palau to Leyte, accompanied by a freighter (tender?). So it does appear that in the right conditions PTs were sailed across very open sea, though I will wager that the sailors aboard were quite nervous until they saw the hills of the Philippines in the distance. 

[Fishbed]

Yes I think that some were ferried this way, together with a big friend of them

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

Personally I find the "coastal hex" restricted rule interesting.

You could make a pretty good case that PT-Boats, Midget Subs, and Barges should all be restricted from traveling in non-coastal hexes. All were shallow draft, short-legged platforms and in AE they have the added commonality of being created using supply. So in that respect they are already completely different from every other naval unit in th game.

[bradfordkay]

I don't like the idea of restricting units from doing something that they actually could do (or did, in some circumstances). Small vessels did operate in open sea, so what I would rather see is negative combat modifiers applied to small craft (100 tonnes or less?) in deep sea hexes (shallow waters on a map the scale of WITP will have small islets and more sheltered waters in many places). Perhaps the negative combat modifiers would not apply during clear weather? 

[gunnergoz]

I have to concur with the idea of limiting PT's to coastal or at least non-open-ocean hexes.  Their history, AFAIK, never included oceanic crossings or blue-water combat.  Even the German E-Boats, a close equivalent to PT's in function, size and speed, stayed pretty much coastal during the war.  I think the E-Boats may have had more success with sinking shipping than did PT's but that may have been in part due to the fact that they often operated in target-rich environments, including the English Channel.
So yeah, I'm all for nerfing them back a bit, it only seems right.

[bradfordkay]

"Their history, AFAIK, never included oceanic crossings"

Well, we just talked about a documented crossing of the Philippine Sea, a distance of several hundred miles (Pelelieu to Leyte is 15 hexes/600 miles on the AE map). This is why I can't support a total ban for these craft in open sea hexes.

[gunnergoz]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"Their history, AFAIK, never included oceanic crossings"

Well, we just talked about a documented crossing of the Philippine Sea, a distance of several hundred miles (Pelelieu to Leyte is 15 hexes/600 miles on the AE map). This is why I can't support a total ban for these craft in open sea hexes.

Yes, but that trip was with their tenders or at least some escort vessels, correct? And I'm sure they did not sortie to combat with those escorts. Your point about re-basing makes sense, so I can see allowing for intra-theater movement of PT's across some limited deep water hexes, but not for combat sorties - that's my main point.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"Their history, AFAIK, never included oceanic crossings"

Well, we just talked about a documented crossing of the Philippine Sea, a distance of several hundred miles (Pelelieu to Leyte is 15 hexes/600 miles on the AE map). This is why I can't support a total ban for these craft in open sea hexes.

And in order to reach Pelelieu they undoubtedly experienced a similar voyage from New Guinea. But in neither case was combat involved, and that's what will happen if you allow PT Boats access to open ocean hexes. What's cool is the design of the game takes into account that all these short ranged units can be treated differently. IRL, the PT Boats only came across to the Philipines AFTER a base had been established at Leyte, and in AE you can account for that by expending supply points to build new ones instead of physically moving them over from the Solomons.

That allows the Allies to hopscotch them forward into the environments in which they operated (however ineffectively) without allowing completely bogus events like mid-ocean intercepts of KB.

[Fishbed]

Again, when I was playing WitP PBEM (usually the SOPAC scenario) with friends, I would always add the obligation as a HR (when playing the Allies too) to "generate" PT @ major ports like Brisbane or Noumea, and have them escorted by a AK or a tender while crossing open ocean hexs, to a point close to their destination. It looked better that way to me, and it definitely look better now.

[ceyan]

Although they were rarely (if ever, despite numerous PT boats built and used, the US only lost some 20-30 in Hostile action) used beyond coastal work, nothing stopped them from doing so other than supplies.  Hell, in the pacific, operating in a "blue water" environment begins less than a mile from land in a lot of places.  Any ship operating in the Pacific ocean, even if it didn't go very far from land, had to have the capability to withstand the punishment the open sea can dish out.  I've seen diary responses or interviews done by books that say patrol boats went as far as their supplies allowed into open water to drive off Japanese supply ships.

Edit:
Just for note, after I submitted that I was thinking my 20-30 PT Boats lost to hostile action might only be the Atlantic/Med Theater. I can't remember for sure.

[Fishbed]

ORIGINAL: ceyan

Although they were rarely (if ever, despite numerous PT boats built and used, the US only lost some 20-30 in Hostile action) used beyond coastal work, nothing stopped them from doing so other than supplies. Hell, in the pacific, operating in a "blue water" environment begins less than a mile from land in a lot of places. Any ship operating in the Pacific ocean, even if it didn't go very far from land, had to have the capability to withstand the punishment the open sea can dish out. I've seen diary responses or interviews done by books that say patrol boats went as far as their supplies allowed into open water to drive off Japanese supply ships.

Edit:
Just for note, after I submitted that I was thinking my 20-30 PT Boats lost to hostile action might only be the Atlantic/Med Theater. I can't remember for sure.

Well I guess you went aboard a PT or another boat of comparable size already - do you really fancy yourself crossing the wild ocean on that motorized canoe? [;)]

Anyone who thinks that PTs are as tough as any other ship have to read the account of their long struggle to the Alaskan ports along the coast. Would make you think twice: unattented (not-accompanied) PT-Boats in open ocean hex should be subject to a high level of non-major damage. My two cents [:)]

So yes, they'd go after japanese supply ship as far as they needed too. But to a PT, "japanese supply ship" stands for "barges", and "open water" stands for "The Slot"... [:D]

[tigercub]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

Never had this level of success with them in PBEM. I sent them from Manilla to a Sen Fernando which is 1 hex from some of the Japanese landing sites. There they refueled and I put them on 6 hex reaction reaction.
Another group was fromed up in Pearl and sent north where the Japanese KB forces were still hanging around. I caught their refueling fleet completly by blind luck.

This is four seperate combats and will forever be known as a night of terror for the IJN and a night of heroes for the USN

Night Time Surface Combat, near Vigan at 80,73, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Chohakusan Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Daisin Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAKL Misaki Maru, Shell hits 6, on fire

Allied Ships
PT-31
PT-32
PT-33
PT-34
PT-35
PT-41
PT Q-111
PT Q-112
PT Q-113

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 8 (1 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (0 destroyed, 6 disabled)



Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Japanese TF suspends unloading operations and begins to get underway
Reduced sighting due to 57% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 57% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
Ferrandiz T. gains tactical advantage
PT Q-113 engages PB Chohakusan Maru at 1,000 yards
xAK Daisin Maru sunk by PT Q-113 at 1,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAKL Misaki Maru at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages PB Chohakusan Maru at 2,000 yards
PB Chohakusan Maru engages PT Q-113 at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAKL Misaki Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-31 engages PB Chohakusan Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages PB Chohakusan Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-112 engages PB Chohakusan Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-35 engages PB Chohakusan Maru at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
PB Chohakusan Maru engages PT Q-113 at 3,000 yards
PB Chohakusan Maru engages PT-35 at 3,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAKL Misaki Maru at 3,000 yards
Task forces break off...

Night Time Surface Combat, near Vigan at 80,73, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAK Yasuteru Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAP Terukuni Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
PB Rokko Maru #2, Shell hits 2

Allied Ships
PT-31
PT-32
PT-33
PT-34
PT-35
PT-41
PT Q-111
PT Q-112
PT Q-113

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)



Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Japanese TF suspends unloading operations and begins to get underway
Reduced sighting due to 57% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 57% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
PT Q-113 engages PB Rokko Maru #2 at 1,000 yards
PB Rokko Maru #2 engages PT Q-112 at 1,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Yasuteru Maru at 1,000 yards
PB Rokko Maru #2 engages PT-41 at 1,000 yards
PT-32 engages PB Rokko Maru #2 at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
PB Rokko Maru #2 engages PT Q-113 at 2,000 yards
PB Rokko Maru #2 engages PT Q-112 at 2,000 yards
PB Rokko Maru #2 engages PT-41 at 2,000 yards
PT-33 engages xAK Yasuteru Maru at 2,000 yards
PB Rokko Maru #2 engages PT-32 at 2,000 yards
xAK Yasuteru Maru sunk by PT-31 at 2,000 yards
PB Rokko Maru #2 engages PT Q-113 at 2,000 yards
PT-35 engages xAP Terukuni Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-33 engages PB Rokko Maru #2 at 2,000 yards
Task forces break off...

Night Time Surface Combat, near Vigan at 80,73, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAKL Banshu Maru #56
xAKL Choun Maru #21, Shell hits 1, on fire
xAK Tokusima Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Kosei Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Yamagiku Maru, Shell hits 23, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Toyokawa Maru, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAKL Arizama Maru
xAK Aki Maru, Shell hits 3
xAK Chowa Maru, Shell hits 5, on fire
xAKL Jinsan Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Koyo Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Mansei Maru
xAKL Oridono Maru, Shell hits 2
xAK Soyo Maru, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
xAK Satsuma Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Sugiyama Maru
xAKL Tensyo Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Tsuyama Maru
xAKL Tohuku Maru
xAK Ueizuru Maru, Shell hits 11, heavy fires
xAK Unkai Maru #6, Shell hits 4, heavy fires
xAKL Yosyu Maru

Allied Ships
PT-31
PT-32
PT-33
PT-34
PT-35
PT-41
PT Q-111
PT Q-112
PT Q-113

Japanese ground losses:
1069 casualties reported
Squads: 21 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 15 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)



Reduced sighting due to 57% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 57% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
xAKL Jinsan Maru collides with xAK Toyokawa Maru at 80 , 73
PT Q-113 engages xAK Ueizuru Maru at 1,000 yards
PT Q-111 engages xAK Unkai Maru #6 at 1,000 yards
xAK Toyokawa Maru sunk by PT-41 at 1,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Satsuma Maru at 1,000 yards
PT-34 engages xAK Soyo Maru at 1,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Chowa Maru at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Unkai Maru #6 at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Ueizuru Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Soyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-33 engages xAK Yamagiku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-32 engages xAK Yamagiku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Aki Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-111 engages xAK Tokusima Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAKL Oridono Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-111 engages xAK Yamagiku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-41 engages xAK Yamagiku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-35 engages xAK Yamagiku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-34 engages xAK Soyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAKL Tohuku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAKL Choun Maru #21 at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Ueizuru Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-111 engages xAK Yamagiku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-34 engages xAK Yamagiku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Chowa Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Kosei Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAKL Oridono Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Unkai Maru #6 at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Ueizuru Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Sugiyama Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-35 engages xAK Soyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-33 engages xAK Yamagiku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Aki Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Unkai Maru #6 at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Satsuma Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Soyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAKL Tensyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAKL Jinsan Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Unkai Maru #6 at 2,000 yards
PT Q-112 engages xAK Yamagiku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-33 engages xAK Mansei Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-32 engages xAK Koyo Maru at 2,000 yards
Ferrandiz T. orders Allied TF to disengage
PT Q-111 engages xAK Koyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-41 engages xAK Yamagiku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Soyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-32 engages xAK Yamagiku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAKL Tohuku Maru at 2,000 yards
Task forces break off...



Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 180,104, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Amagiri
DD Akebono
AO Kokuyo Maru, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
AO Kyokuto Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
AO Nippon Maru
AO Shinkoku Maru, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
AO Toei Maru, Shell hits 7, heavy fires
AO Toho Maru, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

Allied Ships
PT-20
PT-21
PT-22
PT-23
PT-24
PT-25
PT-26
PT-27
PT-28
PT-29
PT-30, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-42



Low visibility due to Rain with 57% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Rain and 57% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
DD Amagiri engages PT-42 at 1,000 yards
PT-30 engages AO Toho Maru at 1,000 yards
PT-28 engages AO Toho Maru at 1,000 yards
PT-26 engages AO Toei Maru at 1,000 yards
PT-24 engages AO Toho Maru at 1,000 yards
AO Toho Maru sunk by PT-21 at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
DD Akebono engages PT-42 at 2,000 yards
PT-30 sunk by DD Amagiri at 2,000 yards
PT-29 engages AO Shinkoku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-42 engages AO Shinkoku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-27 engages AO Nippon Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-42 engages AO Kokuyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-22 engages AO Shinkoku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-20 engages AO Kokuyo Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Akebono engages PT-42 at 2,000 yards
PT-29 engages AO Kokuyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-28 engages AO Toei Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-27 engages AO Shinkoku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-42 engages AO Nippon Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-25 engages AO Kyokuto Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-24 engages AO Kyokuto Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-22 engages AO Kyokuto Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-21 engages AO Kokuyo Maru at 2,000 yards
AO Toei Maru screened from combat
DD Akebono engages PT-42 at 2,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages PT-42 at 2,000 yards
PT-42 engages AO Shinkoku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-42 engages AO Nippon Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-25 engages AO Kokuyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-24 engages AO Shinkoku Maru at 2,000 yards
AO Kyokuto Maru sunk by PT-23 at 2,000 yards
PT-21 engages AO Kokuyo Maru at 2,000 yards
AO Toei Maru , AO Shinkoku Maru , AO Nippon Maru screened from combat
- escorted by DD Akebono
DD Amagiri engages PT-29 at 2,000 yards
PT-22 engages AO Kokuyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-29 engages AO Kokuyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-42 engages AO Shinkoku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-26 engages AO Kokuyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-28 engages AO Kokuyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-20 engages AO Shinkoku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-29 engages AO Toei Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-42 engages AO Shinkoku Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-26 engages AO Nippon Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-25 engages AO Kokuyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-22 engages AO Toei Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-20 engages AO Toei Maru at 2,000 yards
Szukalski, H.O. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range increases to 3,000 yards
DD Akebono engages PT-42 at 3,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages PT-42 at 3,000 yards
PT-20 engages AO Shinkoku Maru at 3,000 yards
Task forces break off...

Anyone playing the grand campaign will get Ripped off because to the naval combat needs more tweaking PT boats a far to good still and surface battle can be a kill all battle, i have not started my campaign and i say to people not to start until the first patch.


Tiger!